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Virgin Blue Cabin Crew EBA

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Virgin Blue Cabin Crew EBA

Old 24th Jul 2009, 02:48
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EBA update from Virgin Blue Management

Hi, as you know posting on PPRuNe is not something Virgin Blue Management normally does. However, we feel it's important that crew have information that is both factual and balanced ahead of making their decision around the Cabin Crew Agreement. As a result, please find below the most recent email from Cabin Crew Management (sent 22/07/09). If you have any questions about the email or around the Agreement overall we encourage you to contact 'Cabin Crew Communications' or your CCDM as we won't be responding to individual posts via this site.

Thank you

Hi Team,

There’s no denying that the last 12 months have been difficult as we’ve adjusted to maintain a sustainable business to protect jobs. The economic pressure we’re facing isn't likely to let up anytime soon so we must find ways to ride out these tough times. Virgin Blue is no different to any other business – when the revenue slows down you have to adjust your cost base to protect jobs. We are not asking you for a pay cut or a pay freeze but a pay rise for an improvement in productivity.

We must achieve productivity and savings via a new Agreement - please understand this is a must do if we are to remain sustainable. While we acknowledge that we’re asking you to be rostered between 2-3 extra hours per week we’re also providing you with substantial benefits in turn that you don’t currently have access to:

§ Salary increases
- 3.5% increase to base salary upon commencement of first roster cycle
- 3% cash payment on your total salary in October 2010
- 3% increase to your base salary in October 2011
§ Shorter 2 year Agreement (expires 1 October 2011)
§ Annual leave loading to be paid out on leave accruals as at October 2009 (as a lump sum cash payment)
§ An extra 10 days off per year (10 days off per roster or 130 a year)
§ No compulsory drafting
§ 200 additional Part-Time positions
§ An additional 5 rostered days off per roster for Part-Time crew (an additional 70 days off per year)
§ Double time for all overtime at increased hourly rates
§ Guaranteed 2 consecutive days off after 5 or 6 rostered working days
§ Improved allowances for Ad Hoc Trainers, Buddy Trainers and for Acting Up
§ 10 weeks paid Maternity leave (currently 6 weeks)
§ 18 months Parental leave (includes option to come back Part-Time for 3 months)
§ Credit for rostered hours if you are sick
§ Partial deduction only of sick leave if you are mid duty sick
§ DTA of $7,000 (an increase of $565)

We really hope that we can finally move forward with a new Agreement. This will not only provide you with certainty regarding pay and conditions over the next 2 years in a challenging market but also finalise the Agreement development process which has been ongoing for over 3 years.

Regards

Cabin Crew Management Team
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Old 24th Jul 2009, 07:57
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I am not a VB employee but as an interested outsider my immediate thought was that you are offering a pay rise to keep up with normal inflation and asking crew to work more hours. That to me equals a pay cut.
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Old 24th Jul 2009, 08:15
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I'd rather take a pay cut than have 5500 people out of work. Things are only going tobe more challenging with Tiger increasing SYD services etc
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Old 24th Jul 2009, 15:06
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I'm not so sure, there are job postings : visit Aviation Jobs, Pilot Jobs, Flight Jobs, Airline Jobs, Airployment for aviation jobs.
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Old 24th Jul 2009, 20:52
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As a flight attendant running the business is not my job. Management are in place for this very reason. If I don't agree with the revised EBA I will NOT be voting yes.

I'll be considering MY personal needs, life & family commitments & all the years of hard work the FAAA have done to ensure flight attendants of australia have what we have today.
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Old 25th Jul 2009, 01:58
  #226 (permalink)  
 
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VB Management .......D4 for desperate?

Always thought a forum is about discussion - obviously NOT for VB Management who sign up and make one "lilly gilding post" that is factually wrong and then state they won't reply........(but they obviously must read).
1. If you are serious about 'engaging' crew then don't try to back door the IR process and deny the greater proportion of crew their RIGHT to be represented - very un-Australian.
2. Do the maths and be honest, you are asking crew to do more for reduced rest and a lower per hour value.
3. Do what you said and fix the PAYG Summaries and allowances reporting so it is ATO compliant and so that crew are able to benefit appropriately.
4. In the "do the maths dept" add up the mangement bonus which according to VB's own ASIC statement (the day after crew voted down the last EBA proposal) was to "reward, retain and motivate executive staff......."
5. Read the notes pages of the two Powerpoint documents circulated between various managers prior to, and during the previous roadshows.....a few very damning statements from the likes of 'RT' 'MB' and others that showed the true intentions of the EBA proposal.
6. Start considering crew fatigue - instead of cutting rest periods give the crews especially on long sectors appropriate crew rest facilities, appropriate crew meals and maybe even consider the findings of the TAXPAYER FUNDED fatigue reserach that VB did with the Uni, particularly that bit about the dangers of an extra east coast sector after a back of clock trans-contential.
7. Oh what about the Commissions Orders re ad hoc and annual leave?..............I know you're working on it.....still...........
8. Stop spending on Branson visits like the cockatoo island p*ss up, the phony bushfire appeal soccer game in LA and the disgraceful LA promo for V that the US media bagged big time - these only promote his other ventures and are barriers to serious investors who see the real value of VB as an LCC but don't like the risk and debt culture Branson promotes. BTW - no one believes the Merrill Lynch stooge statements on behalf of VB given to the Fin Review either!
9. Maybe even think of doing something for the crew that took leave without Pay or volunteered for part time........ "brett" still doesn't answer these emails as he doesn't like hard questions. They took a pay cut while management took a back door pay rise!
10. Stop the B.S. in your crew communications and stop trying to scare crew into voting yes - this tactic contradicts your own statements regarding the commercial viability of the business and only says that you regard your front line crew as young dummies (which they are not).
11. start treating your international crew fairly - passport costs, requiring them to use their OWN mobiles while overseas for operational matters (WTF) etc etc
12. Give V a chance - stop spending on those sexist and embarassing 'get it up' ads - promote the service for what it is (which is good), change the schedule to better link up with the US domestic flights ...oh and don't cut the pilot and CC layovers.

As stated openly before I do sit upfront for another carrier but I have friends and family driving and in the VB cabin......so this directly affects my mortgage and family too!

IR & EBA's are about creating profit partnerships - just grow up and negotiate like professionals rather than shonky con artists. Talk to the people who do the job and empower them - you might even find ways to really save $. You might even find that silver bullet.

Like the ASIC description regarding managment bonuses - "to reward, retain and motivate".......maybe you should apply this thinking to the VB drivers and crew.

Unlike VB Management - I'm more than happy to discuss.
AT

Last edited by airtags; 25th Jul 2009 at 02:14.
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Old 25th Jul 2009, 03:46
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Well said airtags.

VB Management should not assume they are immune to industrial action. They may well soon find themselves in a spot of embarrasment.
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Old 25th Jul 2009, 04:32
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Spot on airtags.

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Old 26th Jul 2009, 03:24
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factual and balanced

factual- the offer is not asking for 2 to 3 extra hours a week, it is 4 extra hours a week to our timesheet

factual- annual leave loading currently keeps up with our salaries but under your proposal it will stand still forever

factual- the statement about paying ALL overtime at double time is not true because working on available days and on days off is overtime above our hours and these are not paid at double time.

factual- the only certainty on offer is higher hours, no rest breaks on 4 sectors; no backpay for the contribution we have made to the airline over the last 12 months, no increase to our allowances, a reduction in overtime as currently paid; no guarantee that we can take 6 weeks a year.

balanced- 8.3% increase in hours per year does not balance with 3.5% or 3% increase in money each year.

factual- for 3 years you have been asking for higher hours and for 3 years we have answered you 9hours 45minutes is the most we can do. before the tough times 5% was on offer, money cant buy zero exhaustion, and we dont want to have to prove month in month out whether we are exhausted or not; we want the work rules to be cope-able.
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Old 29th Jul 2009, 05:28
  #230 (permalink)  
 
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Grrr Some thoughts after another EBA is rejected.

Here are just two areas to consider when the terms 'cost-saving' and 'productivity gains' are thrown around by management:

1.
Superannuation. Cabin crew super is calculated on a base salary of approx $36k (less in previous years), which equates to approx. $70 super per week. The structuring of our salaries with such a low base has ensured a significant cost saving since the beginning (approx. $2m per year if super was to actually be calculated on a more equitable base of $50k).

2. Supplementary payments. Using a VERY conservative estimate, 2 hours of unpaid supp payments per crew member, per week equates to just under $1.46 million in unpaid wages (2hrs * 46 wks * 1,500 crew * $10.60 = $1,462,800). This amount is probably much higher as many cabin supervisors do not submit supplementary payment forms for missed breaks as their CCDMs either harass them with questions or reject them without advising the CS or the CC. There is also a lack of transparency as we cannot track submitted supp forms to ensure they are paid or determine whether they've been approved or rejected.

These are just two areas that have allowed enormous cost-savings and lined pockets but have gone unnoticed during EBA negotiations. If the actual wage expense was accounted for by paying every hour of missed breaks (as the entitlement clearly states in our EBA) and crew were paid superannuation on a more fair base salary amount (somewhere in the vicinity of $45-50k), then I would have gladly supported the productivity gains proposed in both of the recently rejected agreements as our current and future financial situation would be protected in some small way.

How can management expect crew to agree to higher productivity by increasing daily duty hours and abolishing overtime rates after 9hrs without any fair compensation and not introducing any measures to guarantee crew either receive a break or actually 'receive' the supplementary payment they are entitled to?

Then there are some of the areas where countless labour hours are being wasted:

1. Propel. Resources are being wasted on a redundant feedback process to formally recognise that employees are performing their duties to an 'acceptable standard.' It is ridiculous to waste CS labour hours writing these reports and then pay CCDM labour hours to read these reports. It would be more efficient to provide feedback on those that are excelling in their roles and those who have areas for improvement and save the labour hours and costs as the vast majority of crew do not required micro-management.

2. CCOS and CCDMs. Precious financial resources are being wasted on key areas that cannot interpret our current EBA and make informed management decisions that avoid costly fines for EBA breaches even when these very breaches are brought to their attention in black and white. After the issue I heard about regarding a rejected denomination of an available day because a duty had already been assigned, I suggest anyone that isn't a member of the union to join them as they were the only ones that fought to ensure the crew member was treated fairly as crewing, the CCDMs and CCOS would not admit to breaching the EBA and forced the crew member to operate an illegal duty.

It is so insulting that money is being wasted in so many areas but cabin crew are being expected to work harder and longer for less money to fund this waste! We aren't even being paid our full entitlements now or being treated fairly in regards to the conditions stated in the EBA but they continuously bully and intimidate us into accepting poorer conditions.

Managers see dollars and cents but cannot seem to exercise any sense when it comes to negotiating fairly with crew to ensure job satisfaction and adequate remuneration. Are 10-12hr days and 6 day 60-82 hr working weeks the only way for the company to survive?
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Old 30th Jul 2009, 03:39
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$$$

Id have to agree with most crew's comments reduce DM's to 2 per base!.
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Old 30th Jul 2009, 03:44
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$$$

I watch X5 DM's sit in an office for an hour in SYD discussing what they did on the weekend and the latest fashion?? now what is it they do again? oh thats right provide useless feedback that goes no where and waste possible revenue sitting on a 'development flight' where a revenue paying guest could be sitting.

stupid
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Old 31st Jul 2009, 11:33
  #233 (permalink)  
 
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Thumbs down

What is going to happen now that VB have applied to terminate our current agreement? This is unfair, do they not realise what a whole company of ticked off CC can equal too? Many flights not operating, massive loss of $$ and customer loyalty sound good to them? Keep pushing us VB and see what we can pull out too.
If VB keep pushing us this hard, they are suddenly going to end up with a lot of resignations, and I can just imagine the delays and cost from not having enough crew (already happening now) and paying to put a lot more crew through schools.

I am at breaking point currently, as i'm sure is everyone else. This has just got to stop we are working harder than ever before and all this is serving is showing me how much harder I will fight to stop conditions getting any worse.
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Old 7th Aug 2009, 07:31
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Danger

DJTibby - We can only fight as one if we are all members of the union. Crew need to be members of the union before they can take protected industrial action.

It really is a matter of achieving a strong union membership in order to protect our current conditions. How did the old Qantas flight attendants achieve such good working conditions and how did they manage to maintain them while every other airline in Australia, including their own, was paying their crew increasingly less? They had a strong union membership at above 90% of crew which meant the company listened when the union negotiated on behalf of its members and even though times have changed, the union has managed to protect their conditions without bargaining away too much.

During our first EBA negotiation, many crew believed the union was working for Virgin Blue. However, during this time union membership amongst VB cabin crew was still only around 50-60%. The harsh reality is that VB did allow the union to bargain as a token gesture but didn't really listen to their requests as it only represented half of the workforce. The result was a less than desirable EBA proposal that 89% of us voted against but we only have ourselves to blame. Had the union been able to say that they represent 90-95% of cabin crew at VB during the bargaining process, then the published proposal would have been much different than what we voted on.

It seems things have only gone backwards since then with the company completely locking-out the union from the negotiation process for both of the last two EBAs that were voted down.

Remember the biased surveys after the EBAs were voted down? Questions such as, 'Would you prefer an 11 hour day or a 12 hour day?' These questions were designed to elicit data that could be used against us. Where was the option to choose NEITHER? VB will argue that the survey results indicate we wanted 11 hour days and were given 11 hour days in the EBA proposal but we still voted against it. We need qualified industrial officers fighting for ALL of us during these hearings, not just half of us.

We've all heard the talk about reducing the crew complement further on both the Boeing and E-Jet and we are all dropping our bags off before sign-on according to the new procedure that aims at reducing our sign-on time to 45 minutes. These are just two of the strategies that are in the pipeline that may be forced upon us without the opportunity to object. Imagine how many others there are that may be implemented to gain extra duty time to roster in more flights during our days at work. We are in the dark as there is no transparency in the bargaining process or in regards to the plans management have for cabin crew.

Now is the time for every crew member that is concerned about protecting their working conditions to unite as one voice and join the FAAA and allow them to bargain on our behalf. By increasing the membership amongst VB cabin crew from half of us to over 90% of us, we would stand a much better chance at achieving a more desirable bargaining outcome.

However, if you just want to complain about being hard done by for the next several years, then don't join the union but bear in mind, you will only have yourself to blame for whatever comes next.




Below is the latest FAAA Newsletter:
----
7 August 2009 VB 33-09

To: All Virgin Blue Cabin Crew

CABIN CREW AGREEMENT UPDATE

Bargaining for a replacement agreement

Following the recent ballot result, the Association has considered its position in relation to a bargaining for replacement agreement. As your bargaining representative, we have outstanding concerns as to whether Virgin Blue
Management have met their good faith bargaining requirements. We wrote to Management earlier this week seeking further negotiation meetings and full
disclosure of costings and fatigue data, with a view to reaching and making an agreement with Cabin Crew.

Should Virgin Blue not respond to our correspondence and alleviate our concerns by mid next week, then we will once again seek the assistance of Fair Work Australia. We will keep Crew updated in relation to this very important matter.

Existing agreement

On 28 July 2009, prior to the ballot results for the company’s second proposal being announced, the Association was served with an Application for Termination of the existing Certified Agreement, the Virgin Blue Cabin Crew and Flight Attendants’ Association of Australia Agreement II 2002-2005.

On Monday 17 August 2009, the framework and timeline for these proceedings will be discussed and formalised by Fair Work Australia. We will advise Crew of the key dates in relation to this very important matter, once directed by Fair Work Australia.

This newsletter was written by Carolyn Summers, Industrial Officer and authorised by John Playford, Manager Industrial Relations
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Old 10th Aug 2009, 08:43
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fair points vb_girl,

but none that are very good selling points for the union.

Why would Ms. Fencesitter join an organisation forever excusing their lack of balls based on the fact they don't represent enough people and need more membership to be taken seriously?

Last time I checked, the airline would be equally as far up the proverbial creek with 50% of its crew taking industrial action as opposed to 80-90%??

The premise that the union has no power is a farce. Use it or lose it.

If the union did less pussyfooting and stuck its teeth in, maybe people would be motivated to join.

If they can't do it now, then all hope is lost.

How does one set up a union?
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 04:10
  #236 (permalink)  
 
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Union seeks financial data from Virgin Blue

The domestic flight attendants' union has written to Virgin Blue seeking cabin crew cost and fatigue data and foreshadowed that it will use good faith bargaining rules to have it provided if the company doesn't roll over.

The FAAA domestic and regional division's IR manager, John Playford, said today the union was yet to receive a reply from Virgin Blue.

The FWA has already issued a consent recommendation directing the FAAA's domestic and regional division and the airline to meet and for Virgin Blue to "genuinely consider and respond to" union proposals and to "consider and discuss any requests for disclosure of the types of information raised at the conference (costings and fatigue data)" (see Related Article).

Meanwhile, FWA Senior Deputy President Peter Richards will next Monday afternoon hold a directions hearing to deal with Virgin Blue's application to terminate the nominally expired collective agreement covering cabin crew (see Related Article).

Virgin Blue was unavailable for comment.
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 07:04
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Why would Ms. Fencesitter join an organisation forever excusing their lack of balls based on the fact they don't represent enough people and need more membership to be taken seriously?
Maybe the union should consider bargaining on behalf of its members only and see what they can muster up for their membership base in regards to a new set of working conditions and allow the company to do what it pleases with the rest of the crew.

I am quite certain that Virgin Blue management would welcome a proposal of this nature as it would still represent a substantial cost-saving across 50% of its cabin crew as the union would not oppose the company's application to terminate our current agreement for non-union members.

It could be a win-win solution as the union is essentially the only thorn in the company's side when it comes to terminating our current agreement. If they don't oppose the application and fight for cabin crew, who will?

Unless, of course, there are some high-flying non-union law-types working covertly as cabin crew that are waiting for the opportunity to represent non-union members during these hearings and negotiations.
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 07:37
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nice idea except the law doesnt allow that to happen
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 14:40
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Maybe the union should consider bargaining on behalf of its members only and see what they can muster up for their membership base in regards to a new set of working conditions and allow the company to do what it pleases with the rest of the crew.
Maybe if the FAAA hadn't sided with the company during the very first round of EBA negotiations, they wouldn't have had such a dramatic downturn in membership!

Perhaps if those who left the union saw that you were in fact representing the employees rather than the company, then maybe your membership would increase.

It's your own fault that your membership has dropped. You forgot whose side you're supposed to be on!
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Old 18th Aug 2009, 11:49
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Maybe if the FAAA hadn't sided with the company during the very first round of EBA negotiations
Let's not allow the facts to get in the way of a good story.

Just because the FAAA had negotiated for 18mths with a headstrong company and could not get any further, turning over what they had bargained to the Crew to have their say, instead of organising a strike, this is apparently siding with the company?

I'd say this showed integrity. They recommended the deal for fear of what was to come, which is what we are experiencing now. I'd say that showed balls considering the company opted not to bargain again. Their worst fears were realised, they foresaw it but still sceptics bag them. What would you have done, organised a strike with 50% of employees going out, the other 50% working showing all of Australia that Cabin Crew were not united in their quest for better conditions? Real smart.

Is Rocky with you on that one?
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