Flight delayed due drunk cabin crew member

[Beer_n_Tabs]

Ahhhh sorry I didn't realise she had a "drinking problem".

I was under the assumption (perhaps wrongly) that she had a few sherry's to many before going to work, and got caught out.

I keep forgetting that in this PC age, and human rights legislative world we live in that you don't just go out and get p*ssed anymore. We all need a label...binge drinker, alcoholic etc etc



Anyway I myself will shortly be going to feast my craving for alcohol by binging on a few beers soon.... I might even have a Tab to.

Cor HSE would love me

[Lauderdale]

I think its fair to say that in any industry if you are guilty of being p*ssed at work then your employer has no obligation to look after you.

That was making a factual statement - and I was making a factual response. Many peeps are not aware of what employment legislation is in place until they encounter these issues. Like it or not this is what employers have to work with.

On a personal level we probably agree in regards to the 'spirit' (pun intended) of what should happen to her should she be found 'guilty'.

[SOTV]

Cuz if you are then please don't tell me you have never sat in a hotel room minus 4 hours to report haveing a bevvy or two. Fact that the you (or I for that matter) have never been 'caught' doesnt give us the God given right to start passing willy nilly judgement on others.

Yes, I am subject to the same act as you concerning transport workers and alcohol and your statement on 'having a bevvy or two' four hours before reporting beggars belief. You have just admitted being under the influence of alcohol when reporting for duty but have 'never been caught'. What about the duty of care you have to your passengers/other crew members.

Dealing with an employee with a possible alcohol problem

• Employees with a drink problem have the same rights to confidentiality and support as they would if they had any other medical or psychological condition.
• Disciplinary action should be a last resort. A court may find a dismissal unfair if an employer has made no attempt to help an employee whose work problems are related to drinking alcohol.
• The cost of recruiting and training a replacement may be greater than the cost of allowing someone time off to obtain expert help.
• Many people with an alcohol problem are able in time to regain full control over their drinking and return to their previous work performance.
• It may be very difficult for people to admit to themselves or others that their drinking is out of control. They need to know that you will treat their drinking problem as a health problem rather than an immediate cause for dismissal or disciplinary action.
• If employees’ drinking is a matter of concern, they should be encouraged to seek help from their GP or a specialist alcohol agency.

The above is from the HSE.

It is from the HSE. It is document of guidance not a matter of law. Your company Drugs and Alcohol policy states what your company requires and the penalties for not complying with it. My company states that a positive test of 1-5 mg/100ml is ignored as a natural level of alcohol may exist in the blood. 6-19mg/100ml is a final written warning along with help and support. 20+mg/100ml and you are down the road, no questions, no pensions, no nothing.

The onus is on the employee to seek help for a drugs or alcohol problem before it shows in a test not crying after the fact.

[Beer_n_Tabs]

That was making a factual statement - and I was making a factual response. Many peeps are not aware of what employment legislation is in place until they encounter these issues. Like it or not this is what employers have to work with.

Point taken
I will bear that legislation in mind next time I have a hangover and can't be arsed to go to work

Cheers
*use of the word cheers was not meant to imply the 'chinking' of glasses which may imply the drinking of alchohol in the work environment, which if indeed was the case could also imply that I had a drink related 'problem'. As it would imply that I was implying drinking in said work environment was suitable action

*BURPPP*

[Lauderdale]

SOTV

1) wrong - if you as an employee claim you have an alcohol problem/addiction the company can not sack you (after having been caught, and yes....most probably lie!). Having worked as an Union official (level 2, whatever that means) for over 7 years I know that from experience. Please seperate personal opinion from the legal hoops and responsabilities.

2) You obviously have never worked as crew (airline).

Brgds

[SOTV]

Many peeps are not aware of what employment legislation is in place until they encounter these issues. Like it or not this is what employers have to work with.

It is not legislation. It is not enacted in law. It is guidance. You may be unfairly dismissed but this is a matter for civil courts/tribunals to decide not the HSE.

[sec4]

The story I heard is that the cabin crew member had antagonised security staff before boarding, over carrying on a bottle of water!!? It was they that then suspecter her of smelling of booze and called in the checks. The whole crew were then taken off and breathalised. The crew were all cleared, except for her! During this process the whole team were stood down from the flight and a new crew positioned in from elsewhere; hence the delay.

[Lauderdale]

Oh boy...............

You may be unfairly dismissed but this is a matter for civil courts/tribunals to decide not the HSE.

SOTV - this exactly my point! I used the HSE as an example as to what employers have to deal with! It isnt simply a case of playing Donald Trump! Again, my personal opinion or yours isnt what at issue here, it is what employers have to deal with to avoid exactly that: unfair dismissal.

If an employee claims he/she is an alcoholic due to stresses at work etc (again might be a lie but is irrelevant) then an employer will undertake a different course of action than dismissal, they will offer councelling, different place of work etc etc Anything to make sure that at the end of the road they do not get unfair dismissal thrown in their face!

[c2lass]

Must have been "grumpy" security this weekend. My mum flew from ABZ to MAN on Saturday and was quite upset at the way Security spoke to her and the terrible attitude of the male security person in ABZ!

[Lauderdale]

Have a read through some of the postings dealing with security at UK airports...........better wear a helmet!

Most crew actually fall over because of antics back in the hotel (wrecking a room , not paying the room bill, being rude to hotel staff etc ) as the hotel staff then report the crew to the airport security peeps for being under the influence......

(Yes....as they heard them run through the corridors 2 hours before check out.....).

[SOTV]

Lauderdale, I agree with you but this help and counselling can not be retrospective. You could not fail a road alcohol test and expect to get a fortnight in the Priory. You would get a ban. No questions.

By your reasoning any pilot, FA, train driver etc etc could turn up pissed, fail a test and claim to be drinking heavily because of work related stress and get help. It can not work like that.

[Lauderdale]

Mate - off course it doesnt.

First of all the crew member would be suspended etc, offered duties elswhere.

"Asked to leave" - so they resign enabling them to have a 'clean' CV rather than being sacked (I have seen that one sooo many times!).

An investigation would take place formal/informal etc etc, it really is an arduous process and if the employee really has a problem he/she will cooperate and help will be offered (and rightfully so), in most cases the "asked to leave" will apply as the 'piss takers' will rather take the easy way out.

Another thing people do in that case is go 'sick' straight away, go to the GP (again say they are an alcoholic) as whilst this is going on the person in question can not be sacked......

I have sat on both sides of the table (1st as Union rep, now as manager) it really is a mine field!.

I have seen so many piss takes and as an employer you really need to jump through all the hoops to avoid exactly that unfair dismissal scenario.

[A300Man]

Once again, the PPRuNe "Judge and Jury" emerges when another case of broken rules reaches the headlines.

I know that:

a) The job carries a huge safety responsibility and, hence, being drunk on duty is not at all an acceptable scenario;

b) The image one has of "flight attendants" is always of the polished professional, groomed to the hilt and incapable of falling into the traps that many other humans do, because they jet around the world, with polished nails and Loius Vuitton handbags strapped to them;

c).....and, therefore, the sight of a flight attendant being "led from the aircraft, staggering all over the place with mascara running down her face, surrounded by policemen...." does not befit the stereotypical illusion of the regular flight attendant. (Quote taken from Aberdeen Press & Journal Newspaper);

d) The lady may have made a terrible mistake and was ruthless and careless by blatantly ignoring the rules and staying up all night at the hotel bar or raiding the minibar at the Airport Thistle Hotel, or.......or......or.....or;

Whatever the case may be, there is a very possible chance that the lady involved does have a problem with alcohol. Perhaps she had just received some bad news that she couldn't cope with. Perhaps someone had just died. Perhaps she had just been told of some major illness. Perhaps.....perhaps......perhaps.

The fact of the matter is that we are dealing with another human being. She is as much human as the rest of us. She is susceptible to the same failings as all of us. She is capable of making a mistake, just as all of us are. Maybe she really screwed up. Yet, all of us do, from time to time and in some way.

Therefore, holding court as the judge and jury here on this forum, where probably NONE of us knows any of the real facts, is a downright dis-service to the individual concerned and to the authorities involved. We are all happy to sit here at our keyboards and bang away anonymously that she should be immediately fired and have the book thrown at her, etc.....

Before anyone starts the judgements again, please re-read point a) of my post. I am not denying that this is a serious issue and do not condone blatant disregard for the safety of 180 passengers. But, WE here at the forum are NOT carrying the authority to make the statements that many of us have done during the course of this particular thread.

[The Real Slim Shady]

The image one has of "flight attendants" is always of the polished professional, groomed to the hilt ...... because they jet around the world, with polished nails and Loius Vuitton handbags strapped to them

You obviously know my other half

[glad rag]

BBC Reply

BBC twonks
Reference to nationhood totally out of order in that report. Feel free to slay the bbc over this, I have complained.

Reply from BBC

Glad,

Thanks for your email.

Your query was passed to the editor responsible for this online news
content, who has asked that I forward his responds as follows:

"I do not believe that the reference to the woman apparently being English
was racist.

The reference was initially included as a piece of additional information,
as we had no other details about the woman involved. Had we known exactly
where she was from we would have included that, much as we would have said
had she been a local woman.

However, the reference was later removed from the story. When she appeared
in court we subsequently reported that she was from Liss in Hampshire."

Nevertheless, I'd like to assure you that we've registered your comments on
our audience log. This is the internal report of audience feedback which we
compile daily for all programme makers and commissioning executives within
the BBC, and also their senior management. It ensures that your points, and
all other comments we receive, are circulated and considered across the BBC.

Thanks again for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.

Regards

Gemma McAleer
BBC Complaints

[Ralph the Bong]

There are aspects to this thread that make me sick. I don't even know this woman, yet if have been put under the impression from the posts above that she has a "drinking problem". Is that the same as being an "alcoholic"? This could be defamatory. If I met her, the first thing that I would think of her is that she is a 'p1sshead', if I based my opinion on pre-judgements formed by this thread.

The sort of galley gossip that I have heard in recent times makes me hate some of the people in this industry; today's Galley Goss somehow becomes tommorrow's Facts.

In rumours from the past, I have heard stories of a CC memeber who was supposed to have date raped another FA and a Captain who was alledged to be having an affair with a co-worker. In both cases, the allegations were baseless and yet the 2 men involved suffered horribly.

The male FA was ostrasized by many of the co-workers who bidded to avoid him even after is was proven that he had not even had sex with the woman. In the end, it destroyed his career because, as thay say, 'Mud Sticks' and after he left, nobody in other companies would touch him. In the case of the Captain who was supposedly having an affair, his wife was told of the allegation by a female CM who had heard the rumour and felt moral outraged. It didn't end his marriage, but came close to it. This Captain is a good friend of mine.

I hope that she is cleared of this just so she can sue the people who have slandered her. I am not surprised that peopel been so quick to make nasty judgements. That's the sad, sick side of human nature.

[Facelookbovvered]

Give the girl a break, she as been very silly and will pay a high price in terms of her employment and by being publicly named and shamed, but she's still someone Daughter and a human being. There is next to no chance that what she did would have impared the safety of the flight, however there are rules and she was on the wrong side of line.

Right now there will be people all over the world leaving a bar and thinking "i ought not to have had that last drink" on duty in 6 hours or less, there will be a few less beacuse of the publicity surrounding this case.

There is no mileage for bmi in dumping her, yes she will get sacked, but i suspect she will have resigned already.

[HZ123]

Most staff working for our airline have a drink problem. In fact surely everyone in the UK is effected by those with drink problems. The hospitals are inundated with drink related cases, when we travel abroad we set out to get out of our heads with drink. Why is this such a shock some of you seem to live in a cocoon or need to get out more the subject is surely closed or exhausted.

[frontcheck]

"Most staff working for our airline have a drink problem"

This is a bit of a sweeping statement, certainly not the case with my emlpoyer

[Facelookbovvered]

Any truth that the girl has done a runner back to Eastern Europe?