The captain has switched on the Fasten Seat Belt sign - feel free to ignore it
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The captain has switched on the Fasten Seat Belt sign - feel free to ignore it
I fly many times with many airlines and note that when the seat belt sign goes on, many people still move around the cabin and go to the lavatories; why? And why do I not see many cabin staff telling these people to get back to their seats? The only times I see crew enforcing the rule is when some idiots stand up after landing and on the way to the stand.
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As cabin crew we have a "Duty of Care" to ALL passengers, many P.A's are made from the flight deck and Cabin Manager before,after and during flight regarding keeping your seat belt fastened while seated.
We can only enforce so much.....the gernal public will always do as they want. The airline that I work for, passengers mainly haven't flown before and think that it's like traveling on a coach/bus.....so its like beating your head against the wall.
We can only enforce so much.....the gernal public will always do as they want. The airline that I work for, passengers mainly haven't flown before and think that it's like traveling on a coach/bus.....so its like beating your head against the wall.
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There was an incident in PMI on 30 June 08, Where a pax got up and went to the toilet on the Jet2 757 on taxi.
CC told him to stay seated but he ignored.
Aircraft turned round and returned to the gate = pax was taken off instantly.
No messing about on Jet2.
CC told him to stay seated but he ignored.
Aircraft turned round and returned to the gate = pax was taken off instantly.
No messing about on Jet2.
N4790P
..and how many times does one hear “cabin crew be seated for landing” and see that totally ignored too? (not defending anyone ignoring flightdeck instructions).
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Some Airlines put the sign on to cover their backs because a pax might sue them...I've noticed some airlines just keeping it on or forgetting about turning it off...I did also notice on a very good airline that is top this year that they are very attentive and when they can see it's going to be ok turn it off and then turn it on once they feel it's going to get turbulent again, this worked alot...pilots talk to others around the area to know what's around...it depends on whether pilots are listening in to where the turbulence is...
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and how many times does one hear “cabin crew be seated for landing” and see that totally ignored too? (not defending anyone ignoring flightdeck instructions).
As for:
I saw was a deadheading captain (same airline) helping himself to coffee in the galley in full sight of the rest of us, who were strapped in in observance of the sign.
As for helping himself to coffee, somehow i doubt that, i have flight deck jump seating in my flights all the time and i have never seen any of them standing up whilst the seatbelt sign is on, let alone helping themselves to anything.
But if i am wrong, maybe we ought to hear the name of the airline as the CC not taking their seats for landing is a HUGE safety breach and should be reported for the safety of other crew and pax?
Rgds,
ATS
The only time I've ever ignored it was travelling as SLF from LHR to AKL. The captain put the sign on due to some minor turbulence and obviously forgot to turn it off again.
After 2 HOURS of having a baby with a pooey nappy sitting on my lap I thought that enough was enough and got up to change the nappy. I popped my head into the galley to ask if it was alright and was told that this captain often forgot to turn it off!
After 2 HOURS of having a baby with a pooey nappy sitting on my lap I thought that enough was enough and got up to change the nappy. I popped my head into the galley to ask if it was alright and was told that this captain often forgot to turn it off!
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I have met one Captain who said if he hears of anyone standing up on taxi in then he applies the brakes, then they sit down, but maybe not in their seat, whichever happens to be where they are standing!!!!
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I have met one Captain who said if he hears of anyone standing up on taxi in then he applies the brakes, then they sit down, but maybe not in their seat, whichever happens to be where they are standing!!!!
Shhh, don't say that! It's because there appeared to be "something on the runway and we had to use the brakes"
Seriously, which part of the "please remain seated until..." and the little light indicating seatbelt ON some pax don't really get??
Plan A: If last resort, shout at pax to remain seated
Plan B: If plan A fails, apply brakes (or hope the CP can hear you shouting at pax and he's gonna use the brakes hard)
Plan C: If plan A and B didn't make any difference, get to the stand and off load. Simple as
After the above has been completed, turn around and say i told you so...
Rgds,
ATS
The duty of care thing gets thrown around a lot.
Your duty of care is not to assess the situation for yourself and allow someone to stand when the sign is on! Your duty of care is to inform the offending person until they either comply or refuse, at which point you inform the captain - who will either switch the sign off (after making an informed decision) or intervene with a PA or police (however he/she deems necessary).
Sorry to sound militant, but it annoys me - the 'resolute' attitude some display is the stuff accidents/incidents are made of - and it's not you that is responsible should someone be injured on your flight because you failed your so called 'duty of care' - its the poor bloke behind the iron curtain who knows no better. COMMUNICATE folks!
Sure there may have been announcements, signs, and individual verbal instructions - but that does not mean the person has understood, or worse yet, will comply. Do your job, and inform the skipper if they don't do what they're told.
As for the odd breach you see - well having had a concussion and bleeding from severe turbulence myself - not me! And anyone I fly with gets the full story if they don't give the sign and the captain the respect it deserves.
Your duty of care is not to assess the situation for yourself and allow someone to stand when the sign is on! Your duty of care is to inform the offending person until they either comply or refuse, at which point you inform the captain - who will either switch the sign off (after making an informed decision) or intervene with a PA or police (however he/she deems necessary).
Sorry to sound militant, but it annoys me - the 'resolute' attitude some display is the stuff accidents/incidents are made of - and it's not you that is responsible should someone be injured on your flight because you failed your so called 'duty of care' - its the poor bloke behind the iron curtain who knows no better. COMMUNICATE folks!
Sure there may have been announcements, signs, and individual verbal instructions - but that does not mean the person has understood, or worse yet, will comply. Do your job, and inform the skipper if they don't do what they're told.
As for the odd breach you see - well having had a concussion and bleeding from severe turbulence myself - not me! And anyone I fly with gets the full story if they don't give the sign and the captain the respect it deserves.
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gate return
I've seen plenty of crew walking about during aircraft taxi operations and SLF observe this too, getting excited and returning to the gate serves no purpose, maybe the captain thought he was doing a good deed, personally I wouldn't have handled it that way.
Nothing happens to people in this kind of incident, if you're going to bring someone back, do it for a good reason.
Nothing happens to people in this kind of incident, if you're going to bring someone back, do it for a good reason.
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As far as I am aware (at least in my airline), any crew travel-ling in uniform has the right to operate and practically, is part of the operating crew (imagine the CP becoming incapacitated, the CP you seen walking around can take over the command of the a/c).
Of course a dead heading pilot can operate as part of the crew in the event of incapacitation, even if not type rated at least to assist the remaining pilot. So could I, for that matter, even though practically my capability would be limited to operating the radio and keeping a look out.
If both pilots were incapacitated, of course another airline pilot could take control of the aircraft, although it is such an exotic/unlikely circumstance I am not sure whether command would still be held by the senior cabin crew member and to be honest it doesn't really concern me a great deal.
But if not nominated as part of the operating crew, his status is passenger and he should observe the lawful commands of the captainl like the rest of us.
As for the guy taking the coffee, I was sitting in the single seat in the first row of a jungle jet (and the single cc member was worjing at the rear), so pleeeease. You were not there.
I am not going to name the airline, as the laws of libel could apply and I don;t wish to cause PPrune any grief, but it wasa well know southern European outfit.
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standing passengers
i remember the following incident quite clearly.........
flight operating from POP to MAN with MYT. upon landing at manchester we vacated the runway and was slowly proceeding down the taxiway where the AVP park is. number of pax start getting up and going into the overhead lockers. 1st announcement from cc asking people to remain seated until the aircraft has reached the gate, come to a compleate stop, engines stopped and doors opened. after none of the standing pax complied with the request, the cc made the announcement again. once again, no request. then the captain (not sure if he had been in contact with the cc about this or had just simply heard the cc announcements) suddenly stopped the plane, and made the announcement that the plane would go no further until his cc had advised him that everyone was sat down with their seat belts fastened. the whole plane cheered as the red faced passengers who had insisted on standing sat down sheepishly......
flight operating from POP to MAN with MYT. upon landing at manchester we vacated the runway and was slowly proceeding down the taxiway where the AVP park is. number of pax start getting up and going into the overhead lockers. 1st announcement from cc asking people to remain seated until the aircraft has reached the gate, come to a compleate stop, engines stopped and doors opened. after none of the standing pax complied with the request, the cc made the announcement again. once again, no request. then the captain (not sure if he had been in contact with the cc about this or had just simply heard the cc announcements) suddenly stopped the plane, and made the announcement that the plane would go no further until his cc had advised him that everyone was sat down with their seat belts fastened. the whole plane cheered as the red faced passengers who had insisted on standing sat down sheepishly......
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i always comply with the sign ( even when i know the captain has forgotten it ) but i recall having crossed the atlantic and had a few beers in JFK then taxying for departure to tampa ( and you know those tea time taxis in JFK....1-2 hours ) of course i was short taken and had to go. the flight attendand asked me to remain seated but i had to explain ( very briefly ) that it was an emergency....
...and rushed on.
now, i was a passenger on that flight but no point in trying to say to her that i have been a flight instructor and flight examiner for many years and a dog with a proverbial mallet would know from the speed of the departing aircraft on the active runway beside us that we still had a along taxi ahead of us....so much so that i might even have felt the need to go again...
before we got to line up.
i did'nt give the girl any guff and in fairness she did'nt offer any resistence, and of course if would be undesireable to leave the seat belt signs off and have everyone moving around just as it got to take off time, but i feel some allowance should be made at airports with exceptionally long taxi times to allow people a bathroom break and that it should be announced on the pa that if someone feels the need, that they ring the call bell. the flight attendant can then consider if there is sufficient time or if the pax should wait the few minutes till airbourne ( but it should only be a few minutes )....
gear up......
...and rushed on.now, i was a passenger on that flight but no point in trying to say to her that i have been a flight instructor and flight examiner for many years and a dog with a proverbial mallet would know from the speed of the departing aircraft on the active runway beside us that we still had a along taxi ahead of us....so much so that i might even have felt the need to go again...
before we got to line up.i did'nt give the girl any guff and in fairness she did'nt offer any resistence, and of course if would be undesireable to leave the seat belt signs off and have everyone moving around just as it got to take off time, but i feel some allowance should be made at airports with exceptionally long taxi times to allow people a bathroom break and that it should be announced on the pa that if someone feels the need, that they ring the call bell. the flight attendant can then consider if there is sufficient time or if the pax should wait the few minutes till airbourne ( but it should only be a few minutes )....
gear up......
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I noticed this recently as well, it does annoy me.
I remember being on a flight from Gatwick to Dominican Republic with Monarch. During the flight a drunk women was fighting with her boyfriend right next to me. We were roughly 20-30secs from landing, when she stands up smacks her boyfriends head off the window and starts screaming.
I start shouting at her to sit down and so does the CC... 10seconds from landing the CC give up jump in their seats quickly, the aircraft hits the runway with a thump and she goes flying! Lands on a first class seat that was empty and breaks it in half.
Start getting off the aircraft, and there she is in tears with about 15 military police around her.
Idiot!
I remember being on a flight from Gatwick to Dominican Republic with Monarch. During the flight a drunk women was fighting with her boyfriend right next to me. We were roughly 20-30secs from landing, when she stands up smacks her boyfriends head off the window and starts screaming.
I start shouting at her to sit down and so does the CC... 10seconds from landing the CC give up jump in their seats quickly, the aircraft hits the runway with a thump and she goes flying! Lands on a first class seat that was empty and breaks it in half.
Start getting off the aircraft, and there she is in tears with about 15 military police around her.
Idiot!