BA BASSA Message - TUPE
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BA BASSA Message
Any BA BASSA members should check their email and BASSA website as soon as possible. URGENT message that needs reading ASAP.
Last edited by ForwardGalley; 24th Jun 2008 at 19:04.
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BASSA message.....
Looks like we may be dusting off the donkey jackets yet AGAIN!!
Any BA cabin crew who have'nt already done so-Please ensure you read the BASSA e-mail as SOON as you can!!
Any BA cabin crew who have'nt already done so-Please ensure you read the BASSA e-mail as SOON as you can!!
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it realy is very scary, and IFS have confirmed that this project exists to bassa.
if this goes to plan at ba, then expect every other major airline to follow!!
this could affect all cabin crew, and pilots!!!
if this goes to plan at ba, then expect every other major airline to follow!!
this could affect all cabin crew, and pilots!!!
"As we prepare for the final stage of the movement of crew and services into Terminal 5, in Waterside a specialist group of 5 managers are working on a top-secret project called "Operation Columbus", in partnership with Hewitt Associates, an American outsourcing and corporate restructuring specialist.
This group has been secretly working for a number of months on a potential huge bombshell for the entire cabin crew community.
They are looking at the potential feasibility of setting up a subsidiary operation to "employ" all cabin crew at Heathrow and Gatwick.
In simple terms, the plan is to slash costs in a manner that we have
previously not thought possible by simply ending, over a short period of
time, the current terms, conditions, pay scales and agreements of all
current BA cabin crew.
This will be done by setting up a separate structure to employ cabin crew
specifically on lower cost terms and conditions.
Legally, this new operation cannot resemble current structures, so all
rank and pay scales agreements etcetera, would not be replicated to avoid any potential legal challenge over breach of contract of existing employees.
Routes could then be gradually moved from the current crew operation into
this new organisation. Crew who decline to move will either be bought out
of current contracts or be simply left behind as the work moves. The legal
work on how to do this within current legislation has already been carried
out.
The project covers many detailed areas including:
A fixed hourly rate of pay.
The removal of all current ranks.
The ending of all variable pay premiums - CAT, back-to-back, destination,
long day, one down, early report, DOA and ETP etc.
Set salary rate.
All current agreements ended in favour of a LGW style mixed flying option.
LGW is also considered within this project as even this base's reduced
agreement is considered to be too complex and costly.
This is worrying and extremely frightening news, both to us and to you,
but we feel obligated to make you aware of its existence.
We now have no alternative but to challenge Simon Talling-Smith to issue
an immediate statement regarding our concerns and indeed the concerns of the entire cabin crew community."
This group has been secretly working for a number of months on a potential huge bombshell for the entire cabin crew community.
They are looking at the potential feasibility of setting up a subsidiary operation to "employ" all cabin crew at Heathrow and Gatwick.
In simple terms, the plan is to slash costs in a manner that we have
previously not thought possible by simply ending, over a short period of
time, the current terms, conditions, pay scales and agreements of all
current BA cabin crew.
This will be done by setting up a separate structure to employ cabin crew
specifically on lower cost terms and conditions.
Legally, this new operation cannot resemble current structures, so all
rank and pay scales agreements etcetera, would not be replicated to avoid any potential legal challenge over breach of contract of existing employees.
Routes could then be gradually moved from the current crew operation into
this new organisation. Crew who decline to move will either be bought out
of current contracts or be simply left behind as the work moves. The legal
work on how to do this within current legislation has already been carried
out.
The project covers many detailed areas including:
A fixed hourly rate of pay.
The removal of all current ranks.
The ending of all variable pay premiums - CAT, back-to-back, destination,
long day, one down, early report, DOA and ETP etc.
Set salary rate.
All current agreements ended in favour of a LGW style mixed flying option.
LGW is also considered within this project as even this base's reduced
agreement is considered to be too complex and costly.
This is worrying and extremely frightening news, both to us and to you,
but we feel obligated to make you aware of its existence.
We now have no alternative but to challenge Simon Talling-Smith to issue
an immediate statement regarding our concerns and indeed the concerns of the entire cabin crew community."
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It's British Airways info !!!
The BASSA website says the following :
Please note: This message should not be copied, circulated or published without express prior agreement with BASSA
Please note: This message should not be copied, circulated or published without express prior agreement with BASSA
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I must be psychic...
I figured out a long time ago that management and shareholders wanted to get rid of old contracts and the (for some) obscene amount of money being paid to crew. (Don't shoot me, we all know who I'm talking about)
I just didn't foresee the sub factor.
Someone somewhere else in the www world said it could be a scare tactic to get bassa to the negotiating table (they haven't really played ball lately - either sides).
I just want to point out that I'm not supporting the company if this ridiculous suggestion goes ahead, I'm just not surprised about the company wanting to slash incomes. That said, the manager's incomes must also be slashed - by a huge amount - as some of those people are on ludicrous wages for the job they do.
Gg
I figured out a long time ago that management and shareholders wanted to get rid of old contracts and the (for some) obscene amount of money being paid to crew. (Don't shoot me, we all know who I'm talking about)
I just didn't foresee the sub factor.
Someone somewhere else in the www world said it could be a scare tactic to get bassa to the negotiating table (they haven't really played ball lately - either sides).
I just want to point out that I'm not supporting the company if this ridiculous suggestion goes ahead, I'm just not surprised about the company wanting to slash incomes. That said, the manager's incomes must also be slashed - by a huge amount - as some of those people are on ludicrous wages for the job they do.
Gg
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It's happened in Australia already...set up a shelf company, employ all new crew on separate terms and conditions, and eventually farm off existing flying to the cheaper of the two.
The fact that the wages are povvo means nothing...they'll get people who'll do it for a year, then replace them.
I remember a time when people would fight each other for a position. Now, it's a race to the bottom in all senses of the phrase.
Batten down the hatches, guys...there's a twister brewing...
The fact that the wages are povvo means nothing...they'll get people who'll do it for a year, then replace them.
I remember a time when people would fight each other for a position. Now, it's a race to the bottom in all senses of the phrase.
Batten down the hatches, guys...there's a twister brewing...
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This happened over 15 years ago in the Merchant Navy. SeaLink employed fully qualified 'temps' to make up Crew numbers 'in the cabin' so to speak.
The 'Tech Crew' was not reduced, supported by agency staff as qualified as perm employees.
I believe the RMT Union fought this tooth and nail and lost.
Still on my first week in training, RMT were there to get my subs..............................................
The 'Tech Crew' was not reduced, supported by agency staff as qualified as perm employees.
I believe the RMT Union fought this tooth and nail and lost.
Still on my first week in training, RMT were there to get my subs..............................................
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Hello from Cranebank the bastion of sense and calm. If you see some of the NE's surely it could not be possible to reduce the wages at entry level any further.
Large wage earners, we are talking about the old hands of which many must surely now be in their 50's at least. The time this hit team from Waterside get their act together the great earners will have retired. Anyway why should you worry there are loaders earning between £50000 - £65000 per annum and remember the management have been sorting that group out for the last 30 years in an effort to get more work for less wages from them. Before we all need to worry to much about this it is more likely that BA will go broke or we get taken over. I spent 5 years at Waterside and saw many of these swat teams go with virtually nil results. Have you ever even met a manager in BA with a great ability?
Large wage earners, we are talking about the old hands of which many must surely now be in their 50's at least. The time this hit team from Waterside get their act together the great earners will have retired. Anyway why should you worry there are loaders earning between £50000 - £65000 per annum and remember the management have been sorting that group out for the last 30 years in an effort to get more work for less wages from them. Before we all need to worry to much about this it is more likely that BA will go broke or we get taken over. I spent 5 years at Waterside and saw many of these swat teams go with virtually nil results. Have you ever even met a manager in BA with a great ability?
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HZ123 You go right ahead and ignore the BA Coup. Interestingly enough the F/C Community has seen this coming for a long long time. Still not happy with us withdrawing from court proceedings re open skies but the fight will have to happen at another time.
With oil going to push 200 dollars a barrel (admittedly it's speculation driving the prices), and BA not able to find any dance partner to share costs with, they will become increasingly desperate/determined to drive cost out of the business.
I predicted this very thing for cabin crew a while ago with the help of OS but not by it's own seperate agency in the UK. Schedule K helps us a little bit as pilots but by now I believe that no agreement is fool proof anymore.
Expect to be shafted and assume the worst.
This is market economics catching up with you......
With oil going to push 200 dollars a barrel (admittedly it's speculation driving the prices), and BA not able to find any dance partner to share costs with, they will become increasingly desperate/determined to drive cost out of the business.
I predicted this very thing for cabin crew a while ago with the help of OS but not by it's own seperate agency in the UK. Schedule K helps us a little bit as pilots but by now I believe that no agreement is fool proof anymore.
Expect to be shafted and assume the worst.
This is market economics catching up with you......
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Is this the end of the 'bronze' age of flying? (The Golden and Silver age have long gone)
I for one will not be working for £12,000 a year, you could earn more working as a supermarket cashier. No offence to any retail employees but I originally applied to BA seeing it as a good company to work for with decent benefits.
I really think our customers will really suffer who is going to work for a pittance, for an outscourced comapny that isn't British Airways? That in turn will push the airline downwards.
Being really cynical it seems that BA is doomed either way. Will spiralling oil prices and 'green' taxes be the cause of it going bust? Is this the end of aviation industry as we know it? We also have the fact the HM Tax Office is trying to claim more tax off us!
On the other hand HZ123 gives us some more positive news and I keep hearing that the price of oil will stabilise and fall, renewable energy sources will improve, OPEC will increase production, the economy will pick up again (thus is the nature of economies) etc etc etc And this lastest rumour may just be one of many of BA's back up plans. It is not unknown for companies to 'leak' such info on purpose to test the waters...
Who knows what will happen!
I for one will not be working for £12,000 a year, you could earn more working as a supermarket cashier. No offence to any retail employees but I originally applied to BA seeing it as a good company to work for with decent benefits.
I really think our customers will really suffer who is going to work for a pittance, for an outscourced comapny that isn't British Airways? That in turn will push the airline downwards.
Being really cynical it seems that BA is doomed either way. Will spiralling oil prices and 'green' taxes be the cause of it going bust? Is this the end of aviation industry as we know it? We also have the fact the HM Tax Office is trying to claim more tax off us!
On the other hand HZ123 gives us some more positive news and I keep hearing that the price of oil will stabilise and fall, renewable energy sources will improve, OPEC will increase production, the economy will pick up again (thus is the nature of economies) etc etc etc And this lastest rumour may just be one of many of BA's back up plans. It is not unknown for companies to 'leak' such info on purpose to test the waters...
Who knows what will happen!
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Virginia; Things may get better and in my 30+ years the doom mongers are are ever present with rumours and counter rumours. Many delight in creating alarm and dispondency (bit of a rik with the spelling) within the younger/newer staff community. Before CC need worry too much BA will surely get shot off the ramp / ground handling. Today that is still 10 years away at least.
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Manager with agenda...
HZ123,
Unfortunately we have a manager with IFS who has a proven track record of what is being proposed. Look at Qantas 10 years ago, all senior crew had to reapply for the new senior roles of CSM and CSS. A QF mainline contract only available to a few J* or MAM staff based on performance. Now QFCCA...outsourcing to QFCCUK, JetConnect and the base in BKK. He started the ball rolling in what is a divided conquered work force.
Hopefully this will UNITE all BA crew under the BASSA banner...if BA thinks we will take this lying down, they have another thing coming. So much for the new "open and honest relationship" between BA, the unions and most importantly cabin crew!
How many more gaffs do the current regime have to make before they are ousted??
Unfortunately we have a manager with IFS who has a proven track record of what is being proposed. Look at Qantas 10 years ago, all senior crew had to reapply for the new senior roles of CSM and CSS. A QF mainline contract only available to a few J* or MAM staff based on performance. Now QFCCA...outsourcing to QFCCUK, JetConnect and the base in BKK. He started the ball rolling in what is a divided conquered work force.
Hopefully this will UNITE all BA crew under the BASSA banner...if BA thinks we will take this lying down, they have another thing coming. So much for the new "open and honest relationship" between BA, the unions and most importantly cabin crew!
How many more gaffs do the current regime have to make before they are ousted??
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This outsourcing project has been underway for sometime. HZ123 is correct regarding the big earners coming to their 'natural end' and IFS have calculated a 'sliding scale of CSD's' who fall into this high end earner bracket.
The plan to 'employ' CC was looked at in 1988 but was given up quietly, however, this latest outsourcing project has been going on for a long time before the oil costs rocketed. The 'commuting' will END as CC currently know it. Crews will have to be able to drive/park and REPORT within 90 mins of either LHR or LGW. Allowances are also going to be simply by receipt and not by Bfast / Lunch / Dinner allowances and it is also rumour that 'box payments' will go as well. CC may have to pay for parking at their base as well
.
One of the main reasons for outsourcing has been the constant aggro caused by high levels of sickness. Ascot 2008 has seen some of the highest casual sickness records ever, particulary on Ladies Day. Go figure...
If its outsourced the problem of sickness is greatly reduced as the supplier has to provide the crews and shoulder the 'cost' of sickness. In some ways the selfishness of some have impacted on the many.
The loss of CC goes beyond the actual crew, the schedulers, planners and trainers will also be effected and so its a ripple effect.
BASSA cannot change it, Crew will be trained up and will be lining up to work for as little as £12,000 because of the percieved glamour.
The plan to 'employ' CC was looked at in 1988 but was given up quietly, however, this latest outsourcing project has been going on for a long time before the oil costs rocketed. The 'commuting' will END as CC currently know it. Crews will have to be able to drive/park and REPORT within 90 mins of either LHR or LGW. Allowances are also going to be simply by receipt and not by Bfast / Lunch / Dinner allowances and it is also rumour that 'box payments' will go as well. CC may have to pay for parking at their base as well
.One of the main reasons for outsourcing has been the constant aggro caused by high levels of sickness. Ascot 2008 has seen some of the highest casual sickness records ever, particulary on Ladies Day. Go figure...
If its outsourced the problem of sickness is greatly reduced as the supplier has to provide the crews and shoulder the 'cost' of sickness. In some ways the selfishness of some have impacted on the many.The loss of CC goes beyond the actual crew, the schedulers, planners and trainers will also be effected and so its a ripple effect.
BASSA cannot change it, Crew will be trained up and will be lining up to work for as little as £12,000 because of the percieved glamour.
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For years BA has had a little Airline to try out different types of terms and conditions on its cabin crew, its currently called BA Cityflyer but has gone under various guises in its past. BA Connect , BA Citiexpress to name just two names in the last couple of years, the cabin crew at the moment cant even get Union recognition because the company keep delaying talks and Amicus the union that represented the crew in the past CANT BE BOTHERED to get of there collective asses and put pressure on the company even though the crew have the legal numbers for union recognition ,but Amicus would like you to still pay your union subscription each month for doing nothing . Some of you in mainline will have heard of Cityflyer quite a few of you probably havent i hope you never have to operate under some of the terms and conditions that BA find acceptable for cityflyer crews.