Virgin FSM's to be axed
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Koru Kid
Dont you find it Ironic that the now Manager Of International Airline, for Air New Zealand, came from Virgin.
So what changes were made upon his arrival.
Yeah they got FSM's ..... just like he had at Virgin
Then they got the Lie-Flat-Beds ...... copied from Virgin
Then they adopted new service changes ..... just like Virign
Then he bought about an onboard non-working specialist role ..... kinda like virgin
Is there an original thought in the mans head at all .... so I guess they can hope to see these changes initiated at Air NZ in the near future as he hears about them also.
So what changes were made upon his arrival.
Yeah they got FSM's ..... just like he had at Virgin
Then they got the Lie-Flat-Beds ...... copied from Virgin
Then they adopted new service changes ..... just like Virign
Then he bought about an onboard non-working specialist role ..... kinda like virgin
Is there an original thought in the mans head at all .... so I guess they can hope to see these changes initiated at Air NZ in the near future as he hears about them also.
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This is yet another annoying rumour, and I'm with Varga Girl, get rid of those that claim to be running this airline and we will undoubtedly see a difference - for the better!
I've just been to the base where an FSM course is going through as I write this, and with all the other rumours that are going round, as SCC I no doubt will be about to loose my job, despite the length of time in my role!
Although the 1 CSS rumour is also flying around, I doubt this would happen, it would only take one pax to hold up the FSM on their walk round and then then it would be left to the SCC to ensure everything got done in J, and as much fun as it is to do more than you are paid for, there aren't many of us that want to do that!
I've just been to the base where an FSM course is going through as I write this, and with all the other rumours that are going round, as SCC I no doubt will be about to loose my job, despite the length of time in my role!
Although the 1 CSS rumour is also flying around, I doubt this would happen, it would only take one pax to hold up the FSM on their walk round and then then it would be left to the SCC to ensure everything got done in J, and as much fun as it is to do more than you are paid for, there aren't many of us that want to do that!
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This rumour concerning the future of the FSM role, is simply that, an unfounded rumour.
In fact, in the next year or so, the FSM's will more than likely get a significant payrise, to recognise their management responsibilities. What is almost likely to happen though, is a reduction of the number of crew on board, with a service re-jig to make it work. With average crew turnover at 16 months, which is the same as it has been for 20 years, it is unlikely to mean crew redundancy, simply a requirement to not replace those that leave.
In fact, in the next year or so, the FSM's will more than likely get a significant payrise, to recognise their management responsibilities. What is almost likely to happen though, is a reduction of the number of crew on board, with a service re-jig to make it work. With average crew turnover at 16 months, which is the same as it has been for 20 years, it is unlikely to mean crew redundancy, simply a requirement to not replace those that leave.
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Well that sounds a bit more positive, I just wish I could allow myself to believe it 100%. I guess the end of the IFBTs has unsettled me and seeing what has happened elsewhere. Pray to God I can afford to stay as I'm a single parent and apart from my children, Virgin is my life, I am so happy there and couldnt face leaving.
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This getting rid of Fsm's rumour is great.
I think i'm right in saying that you have to make the job redundant and not the person in which case if you had a css now "in Charge", that would be the same as having an fsm, just called different which i think is illegal. Its not gonna happen so stop making this S$&T up!!!! It does nobody any favours and will end up making it a crap place to work, if it isnt already.
I think i'm right in saying that you have to make the job redundant and not the person in which case if you had a css now "in Charge", that would be the same as having an fsm, just called different which i think is illegal. Its not gonna happen so stop making this S$&T up!!!! It does nobody any favours and will end up making it a crap place to work, if it isnt already.
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I see what you are saying, and sorry to ask so many questions, but hopefully from my above post you will see why.
If that is the case, how come it happened at Air NZ?, or naturally do they have different rules to this country? Its just that Air NZ crew live in this country so are they governed by us or NZ?
Sorry so dense, just realistically worried at the mo
If that is the case, how come it happened at Air NZ?, or naturally do they have different rules to this country? Its just that Air NZ crew live in this country so are they governed by us or NZ?
Sorry so dense, just realistically worried at the mo
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FSM position is going, Rubbish!! All of us FSM's got the email from P/A to say that is not the case so end of story.
GFM is rife at the moment not just here at Virgin but with every airline. EOS has just gone bust which makes about five airlines recently, so i would say every airline in the world is probably trying ways to cut costs and to survive.
What i do find strange here at Virgin, is that every time we get new managers in we try to get them fired before they've even been given a chance to sort things out. Yes we have had some s--t Managers and they have all gone one way or another, so lets give this new one some time to make a difference he has only been here a short while, and if he doesn't then he will be shot out the door just like the others. Don't forget he has loads of issues to address, which the previous LM left him with!!
Don't forget the great thing about Virgin is us the staff, i think there may be tough times ahead but if we all stick together and do what we are good at we will be here for the Long Haul.
GFM is rife at the moment not just here at Virgin but with every airline. EOS has just gone bust which makes about five airlines recently, so i would say every airline in the world is probably trying ways to cut costs and to survive.
What i do find strange here at Virgin, is that every time we get new managers in we try to get them fired before they've even been given a chance to sort things out. Yes we have had some s--t Managers and they have all gone one way or another, so lets give this new one some time to make a difference he has only been here a short while, and if he doesn't then he will be shot out the door just like the others. Don't forget he has loads of issues to address, which the previous LM left him with!!
Don't forget the great thing about Virgin is us the staff, i think there may be tough times ahead but if we all stick together and do what we are good at we will be here for the Long Haul.
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Good post virginracer. I got the email also, i just would have liked the same email to be out on ifly for the rest of the crew to see this, and that would put the rumours to rest. There is so much negatitvity anyway when you go to work, we or the passengers dont need this. I was impressed with PA, during the managers meeting and actually felt for the first time in ten years with virgin that he talked to us as adults and managers rather than being talked him talking at us like children.
I got the email also, i just would have liked the same email to be out on ifly for the rest of the crew to see this, and that would put the rumours to rest. There is so much negatitvity anyway when you go to work, we or the passengers dont need this. I was impressed with PA, during the managers meeting and actually felt for the first time in ten years with virgin that he talked to us as adults and managers rather than being talked him talking at us like children.
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I've just read the thread and as New crew am getting really worried bout what you are all saying FSM's are soo important in the running of the aircraft. And is the rummor bout last in first out true?? am very worried
am very worried
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blondechick,
Thanks for your words, but don't worry it is all total rubbish!! Us FSM's are going nowhere Virgin have said so in an email to every FSM from our boss ( PA )
keep the faith!!!
Thanks for your words, but don't worry it is all total rubbish!! Us FSM's are going nowhere Virgin have said so in an email to every FSM from our boss ( PA )
keep the faith!!!
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Blondechick
Relax
When Virgin made redundancies after 9/11 it went on a last in first out basis. However many crew took voluntary which meant that approx 113 crew were given compulsory, when it could have been so many more.
There are absolutely NO TALKS/PLANS to make anyone reduntant. There is of course the rumour of FSM, which is why I asked the question "Is this because of the threatened strike?", if so then us old timers would naturally prefer it if the newbies went before us. However, that was simply a hyperthetical question and there are absolutely no grounds to base that rumour on.
Look at this thread for example. 50% believe we'll stay and 50% think we'll get shafted. But thats all it is, speculation.
I'm actually swaying now to thought that we will stay. If all a crew member can earn at VAA is a CSSs wage, then thats not going to inspire anyone and crew simply wont stay, so getting rid of the FSM (as well as many more reasons) would be plain stupid.
Anyway, try not to worry. yes, trying times are ahead but we did make our 7% profit this year, so for now we're staying in business.
Enjoy
When Virgin made redundancies after 9/11 it went on a last in first out basis. However many crew took voluntary which meant that approx 113 crew were given compulsory, when it could have been so many more.
There are absolutely NO TALKS/PLANS to make anyone reduntant. There is of course the rumour of FSM, which is why I asked the question "Is this because of the threatened strike?", if so then us old timers would naturally prefer it if the newbies went before us. However, that was simply a hyperthetical question and there are absolutely no grounds to base that rumour on.
Look at this thread for example. 50% believe we'll stay and 50% think we'll get shafted. But thats all it is, speculation.
I'm actually swaying now to thought that we will stay. If all a crew member can earn at VAA is a CSSs wage, then thats not going to inspire anyone and crew simply wont stay, so getting rid of the FSM (as well as many more reasons) would be plain stupid.
Anyway, try not to worry. yes, trying times are ahead but we did make our 7% profit this year, so for now we're staying in business.
Enjoy
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Dear Sign it to your room.
You say that if crew could only aspire to the CSS salary then not many would stay. That already seems to be the case.
Even with the FSM, what percentage of crew recruited actually reach that lofty rank?
It would be interesting to compare the Virgin cabin crew turnover (someone quoted 16 months) with other airlines.
Regards.
Stowaway
You say that if crew could only aspire to the CSS salary then not many would stay. That already seems to be the case.
Even with the FSM, what percentage of crew recruited actually reach that lofty rank?
It would be interesting to compare the Virgin cabin crew turnover (someone quoted 16 months) with other airlines.
Regards.
Stowaway
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When i started thirteen years ago there was no fast tracking or performance monitoring, also at that time my course was the last recruited for about a year, getting through the ranks is of course what i wanted to do but then i had to wait my turn, it was all about seniority back then so i was down the back nearly four years, luckily for me things then speeded up due to expansion and promotion became a lot quicker, i have to say it was good grounding spending all that time down the back, people now are in such a hurry to get up the front and some which do manage it are not always the best due to lack of experience. If what Virgin say is correct and no expansion for the next three years then promotion for all may be very slow. Us FSM's are going nowhere period!!!
As to the numbers leaving as i have said on here before it is hardly any different now to years ago, the big difference being that we now have nearly 5000 crew so it just seems like more are leaving, there has always been a steady amount leaving one training course per week has been the same for years, OK we sometimes have had two per week but only when expanding or to boost numbers when Virgin have got there crew members needed numbers wrong.
As to the numbers leaving as i have said on here before it is hardly any different now to years ago, the big difference being that we now have nearly 5000 crew so it just seems like more are leaving, there has always been a steady amount leaving one training course per week has been the same for years, OK we sometimes have had two per week but only when expanding or to boost numbers when Virgin have got there crew members needed numbers wrong.
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Stowaway
Dear Stowaway,
Thank you in the first instance of being polite.
Its not a lofty rank, many do make it and i think right now we have about 400? lol!
But I can tell you that had £18k been all that I could earn then I think I would have learned a language and moved to BA! I know £25k plus the rest isnt a huge amount more, but to me it makes all the difference.
Becoming an IFS (as it was then) was all I ever wanted from the day I joined VAA, and I still pinch myself now after all these years.
Sad I know, but so true
Edited to say: Didnt really answer your question did I? Hmmmmmmmm need more time to think, but maybe the few FSMs that we do have just prove the point that we dont pay them enough and that more would stay if we did, so dont lose the rank!
Thank you in the first instance of being polite.
Its not a lofty rank, many do make it and i think right now we have about 400? lol!
But I can tell you that had £18k been all that I could earn then I think I would have learned a language and moved to BA! I know £25k plus the rest isnt a huge amount more, but to me it makes all the difference.
Becoming an IFS (as it was then) was all I ever wanted from the day I joined VAA, and I still pinch myself now after all these years.
Sad I know, but so true
Edited to say: Didnt really answer your question did I? Hmmmmmmmm need more time to think, but maybe the few FSMs that we do have just prove the point that we dont pay them enough and that more would stay if we did, so dont lose the rank!
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FYI teemok
Yes Virgin racer is a manager! An FSM which incase you did not know means Flight Service MANAGER! Which is the head of the OBM team Onboard Managers Team which also includes CSS's Cabin Service Supervisor!
Maybe thats why your not either of those because you don't fully understand the rank structure onboard the A/C and that we do have a manager onboard. Or it could mean that you don't have any respect for the OBM team as you don't see them as managers. Either way you have a problem.
Yes Virgin racer is a manager! An FSM which incase you did not know means Flight Service MANAGER! Which is the head of the OBM team Onboard Managers Team which also includes CSS's Cabin Service Supervisor!
Maybe thats why your not either of those because you don't fully understand the rank structure onboard the A/C and that we do have a manager onboard. Or it could mean that you don't have any respect for the OBM team as you don't see them as managers. Either way you have a problem.
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That means that a FSM is not the head of the OBM, since the Captain is ultimately responsible for the service delivered onboard and so he assumes that position by way of rank structure.
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teemok,
you are the exact kind of person i was talking about in one of the previous posts, somebody who wants to be running the show before you can even walk, that said I'm not sure what rank you are.
Let me tell you i am not a manager apart from an FSM on-board, and i will go as far to say i think I'm a pretty good FSM, i would also say that on many flights I do nearly all of my crew would be getting off thinking that is the kind of FSM i would like to be one day, yes I'm sure there are better FSM's but if i didn't think i was any good i wouldn't be here.
Just to add if you are really clever you might be able to figure out who i am!! I am flying tomorrow and looking forward to a great trip!!
teemok get your facts correct before throwing the normal he must be a manager line!! idiot
you are the exact kind of person i was talking about in one of the previous posts, somebody who wants to be running the show before you can even walk, that said I'm not sure what rank you are.
Let me tell you i am not a manager apart from an FSM on-board, and i will go as far to say i think I'm a pretty good FSM, i would also say that on many flights I do nearly all of my crew would be getting off thinking that is the kind of FSM i would like to be one day, yes I'm sure there are better FSM's but if i didn't think i was any good i wouldn't be here.
Just to add if you are really clever you might be able to figure out who i am!! I am flying tomorrow and looking forward to a great trip!!
teemok get your facts correct before throwing the normal he must be a manager line!! idiot
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It's a shame that so many cabin crew are so gullible, because it means that people like teemok can easily cause chaos with their unfounded speculation and rumourmongering.
The role of the onboard service manager will always exist so long as passenger aircraft carry cabin crew. The title in individual airlines may be different - and may change in any given airline, as it has in Virgin (from In-Flight Supervisor to Flight Service Manager). Someone has to be responsible for the conduct and organisation of the cabin crew onboard, with authority (delegated by law from the Captain) to take whatever measures necessary to ensure the safety of the passengers, crew and aircraft. That role cannot, and will not, be made redundant. Therefore there can be no 'plan' to remove FSM's from the aircraft. Period.
The total number of crew on board can be reduced; the number of mid-ranking crew (CSSs) can be reduced, but someone has to be in charge. That is the FSM - or whatever other title the airline wishes to use.
Ignore teemok. He or she is a troublemaking troll.
The role of the onboard service manager will always exist so long as passenger aircraft carry cabin crew. The title in individual airlines may be different - and may change in any given airline, as it has in Virgin (from In-Flight Supervisor to Flight Service Manager). Someone has to be responsible for the conduct and organisation of the cabin crew onboard, with authority (delegated by law from the Captain) to take whatever measures necessary to ensure the safety of the passengers, crew and aircraft. That role cannot, and will not, be made redundant. Therefore there can be no 'plan' to remove FSM's from the aircraft. Period.
The total number of crew on board can be reduced; the number of mid-ranking crew (CSSs) can be reduced, but someone has to be in charge. That is the FSM - or whatever other title the airline wishes to use.
Ignore teemok. He or she is a troublemaking troll.