Why are so many people leaving Virgin ?
Join Date: Dec 2007
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What was Richards advice?
Im currently flying for a different airline as international cabin crew but would love to fly for Virgin - are things not as great as they once were?
Im currently flying for a different airline as international cabin crew but would love to fly for Virgin - are things not as great as they once were?
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dublin
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i work for virgin, and let me tell ya, it aint all plain sailing! i think the latest service adjustments make us look worse than charter! not to ofend, cos i'd rather fly thomas cook or first choice!
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Hopeful CC,
SRB told the CC members who were threatening to strike that if the non-monetary bennies together with their salary was not enough for them, they were free to leave VA and go to other airlines. It was his view that the whole package was a better deal than some other airlines (with higher pay, but possibly less bennies) offered their own CC.
Sometimes though, salary does trump other bennies... you can't pay your bills with bennies ("well, Mr Councillor sir, I would love to pay my council tax in full, but would you like a companion flight for free to LAX as part payment instead?").
I know I sound cynical when I say that; I understand the concerns and the views of both SRB and the CC, having had the shoe on either foot. There has to be a good middle way somewhere. The staff who leave clearly are not happy with what they were offered, and they were free to leave. And I'm sure there are a fair few who would've preferred to have stayed if the deal had been better.
S.
SRB told the CC members who were threatening to strike that if the non-monetary bennies together with their salary was not enough for them, they were free to leave VA and go to other airlines. It was his view that the whole package was a better deal than some other airlines (with higher pay, but possibly less bennies) offered their own CC.
Sometimes though, salary does trump other bennies... you can't pay your bills with bennies ("well, Mr Councillor sir, I would love to pay my council tax in full, but would you like a companion flight for free to LAX as part payment instead?").
I know I sound cynical when I say that; I understand the concerns and the views of both SRB and the CC, having had the shoe on either foot. There has to be a good middle way somewhere. The staff who leave clearly are not happy with what they were offered, and they were free to leave. And I'm sure there are a fair few who would've preferred to have stayed if the deal had been better.
S.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Agreed, I recently left Virgin and things have taken a turn for the worse. The middle management are a waste of space, clueless and wasting resources and the inflight product is just plain embarrassing now. The crew being recruited now are generally of a much lower standard than those that were hired in the past. The economy product is saved only by it's in-flight entertainment, and that only really applies to the Heathrow fleet which has vPort, Gatwick is dreadful. The new premium economy is reasonable, but it will take a long time for it to be rolled out across the fleet and Upper is just appalling now. The seat is the only saving grace, the food is poor, the wine and champagne is dreadful and if you're using Gatwick the story only gets worse. The only outstanding elements remaining are the Club House at LHR and the limo service. Now the IFBTs are going it will to become even more of a joke. People will vote with their feet and something needs to be done quickly. Unattentive crew, poor meals and bad service are destroying what was once and airline that led in it's field. I can see them starting to charge for alcohol in the coming year.
The crew are now poorly treated, Richard's letter and now the removal of the IFBTs are making everyone feel undervalued. I'm glad I left and am now working in the flight deck.
In stark contrast I flew the new BA Club World the other day and it was exceptional, even flying through T5 was a positive experience for me! Yes, the crew may have been a bit older, but they were superb and took a great deal of time to introduce themselves to me individually and have an engaging conversation. There is no comparison. Which is sad, because I had always hoped to return to VS in the RHS but now my ambitions have changed and I want to go to BA.
Here's hoping something is done quickly to reverse the downturn, there are some wonderful people at Virgin and they don't deserve the crap they have to endure for delivering a substandard product.
The crew are now poorly treated, Richard's letter and now the removal of the IFBTs are making everyone feel undervalued. I'm glad I left and am now working in the flight deck.
In stark contrast I flew the new BA Club World the other day and it was exceptional, even flying through T5 was a positive experience for me! Yes, the crew may have been a bit older, but they were superb and took a great deal of time to introduce themselves to me individually and have an engaging conversation. There is no comparison. Which is sad, because I had always hoped to return to VS in the RHS but now my ambitions have changed and I want to go to BA.
Here's hoping something is done quickly to reverse the downturn, there are some wonderful people at Virgin and they don't deserve the crap they have to endure for delivering a substandard product.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Too much cost cutting
Or more accurately, too much cutting away from the areas that we flyers perceive as being important. ie products that we deliver to our customers, & the people involved, be it crew, IBFT's or pilots.
VS & BA both seem to have issues in these areas. Lets face it, the airline industry is one hell of a tough place to be in at present. Tough decisions have had to be made by many airlines, & many others have gone to the wall, or are just about to.
It appears that our senior managers seem to be using the tough climate we are in to hammer the front line staff, be it SRB telling his c.crew to go elsewhere if they feel undervalued (& this from a master of P.R!!), or WW & his lot seemingly reneging on last years c.crew deal &/or bringing the pilots to the brink of a strike.
The product that we deliver to our customers is constantly being looked at by the bean-counters to see if it can be cheapened any further, & we as cabin crew want to deliver a product that we can be proud of. This is becoming more & more difficult.
I remember when I started flying, being told that I had missed the "golden age" of flying, & its all going downhill now. That was a long time ago, & now it seems that I am in danger of saying the same thing to my juniors!
Happy flying, whoever you work for,
Matt.
VS & BA both seem to have issues in these areas. Lets face it, the airline industry is one hell of a tough place to be in at present. Tough decisions have had to be made by many airlines, & many others have gone to the wall, or are just about to.
It appears that our senior managers seem to be using the tough climate we are in to hammer the front line staff, be it SRB telling his c.crew to go elsewhere if they feel undervalued (& this from a master of P.R!!), or WW & his lot seemingly reneging on last years c.crew deal &/or bringing the pilots to the brink of a strike.
The product that we deliver to our customers is constantly being looked at by the bean-counters to see if it can be cheapened any further, & we as cabin crew want to deliver a product that we can be proud of. This is becoming more & more difficult.
I remember when I started flying, being told that I had missed the "golden age" of flying, & its all going downhill now. That was a long time ago, & now it seems that I am in danger of saying the same thing to my juniors!
Happy flying, whoever you work for,
Matt.
Join Date: Jan 2005
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The Facts:
Virgin have NEVER been very good when it comes to salary, and in my opinion, and Sir Richards, will never be. As already stated, people can't pay their bills with free flights etc. Together with alot of crew now being treated like a number, is why I believe alot of CC are now jumping ship and heading towards better airlines.
I myself was at VS for over 5years, and now longhaul at BA, and they are alot better when it comes down to the pennies! This is why crew at BA don't tend to leave as they know how bad it can be at other airlines.
Virgin was a very good airline to work for when I was there, but has rapidly gone down hill. Great if you want to see the world and want lots of free tickets etc. But if it comes down to paying the bills, it isn't worth it.
It is a real shame as the crew at VS have alot more services to do and im my opinion, through experience, work alot harder. No disrespect to BA crew, but for example VS have an ice- cream service. Vs also have more economy seats which makes alot more work! Mind you, im sure the ice cream service will soon disapear in their bid to cut costs!!
If you are wanting to get into aviation, don't get me wrong, you could do alot worse than Virgin, but it certainly ISNT the best! I think people get carried away with the IMAGE
Virgin have NEVER been very good when it comes to salary, and in my opinion, and Sir Richards, will never be. As already stated, people can't pay their bills with free flights etc. Together with alot of crew now being treated like a number, is why I believe alot of CC are now jumping ship and heading towards better airlines.
I myself was at VS for over 5years, and now longhaul at BA, and they are alot better when it comes down to the pennies! This is why crew at BA don't tend to leave as they know how bad it can be at other airlines.
Virgin was a very good airline to work for when I was there, but has rapidly gone down hill. Great if you want to see the world and want lots of free tickets etc. But if it comes down to paying the bills, it isn't worth it.
It is a real shame as the crew at VS have alot more services to do and im my opinion, through experience, work alot harder. No disrespect to BA crew, but for example VS have an ice- cream service. Vs also have more economy seats which makes alot more work! Mind you, im sure the ice cream service will soon disapear in their bid to cut costs!!
If you are wanting to get into aviation, don't get me wrong, you could do alot worse than Virgin, but it certainly ISNT the best! I think people get carried away with the IMAGE
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Sadly gempop, a question was asked and has been answered by people who have experience. It is unfortunate you feel that this is an attack on yourself but have a choice to consider it as fact or to ignore it.
I have a cousin whoworked as a cast member for Disney in Orlando and they paid peanuts. But they had a good time all the same, who is to say that it wont be the same for you at Virgin...its all about your own experience!
I have a cousin whoworked as a cast member for Disney in Orlando and they paid peanuts. But they had a good time all the same, who is to say that it wont be the same for you at Virgin...its all about your own experience!
Join Date: Apr 2005
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For me, the main reason I am considering leaving Virgin is that we are not delivering what is promised which is embarassing and makes our job ten times harder. I'm based at MAN so we constantly fly on the aircraft without VPort or games, we are getting more and more technical delays and finally, the new second service is just embarassing. People have an image of Virgin and they pay a premium for it - we aren't delivering it.
As for the quality of the crew, don't take it personally, people have been saying it for years. When I joined 3 years ago people were saying it, now those people who have been there 3 years are saying it. I think people like to think that they are better - and obviously a couple of years experience will make you a better cabin crew member, you need to give people the opportunity to develop.
As for the quality of the crew, don't take it personally, people have been saying it for years. When I joined 3 years ago people were saying it, now those people who have been there 3 years are saying it. I think people like to think that they are better - and obviously a couple of years experience will make you a better cabin crew member, you need to give people the opportunity to develop.
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I don't feel it was an attack upon myself - no-one here knows me personally! I was just trying to say was perhaps people could be more tentative and a little more thoughtful in how they put their points across. I do understand what you're saying though - and I wouldn't argue with anyone's direct experience! As a newbie who has barely started - obviously I know practically nothing compared to you guys about how the company is changing etc.
Oh and the Disney program your cousin did - (Epcot Uk?) - he was unlucky and must have been in merchandise because I made three times what I make as a teacher (I was in food and bev.)!
Oh and the Disney program your cousin did - (Epcot Uk?) - he was unlucky and must have been in merchandise because I made three times what I make as a teacher (I was in food and bev.)!
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Well I'm 15 years in and I bloody love it!
Even though I do agree about the service issues.
But back to topic.......why are so many people leaving? I doubt SRB letter has anything to do with it. Lets look at the facts and the economy.
1.4 million people will come to an end with their fixed rate mortgage this year and are unlikely to find a deal nearly half as good. People are starting to panic. 1st time buyers dont stand a hope in hell of getting on the ladder now, so have to do everything within their grasp to make those extra bucks.
Globetrotting with VA is fab, but it wont buy you permanent shelter. So its not really much to do with the airline personally, I'm sure many other companies are experiencing the same; and thats even with VA giving an 8.9% pay increase in just 3 months!!!
Even though I do agree about the service issues.
But back to topic.......why are so many people leaving? I doubt SRB letter has anything to do with it. Lets look at the facts and the economy.
1.4 million people will come to an end with their fixed rate mortgage this year and are unlikely to find a deal nearly half as good. People are starting to panic. 1st time buyers dont stand a hope in hell of getting on the ladder now, so have to do everything within their grasp to make those extra bucks.
Globetrotting with VA is fab, but it wont buy you permanent shelter. So its not really much to do with the airline personally, I'm sure many other companies are experiencing the same; and thats even with VA giving an 8.9% pay increase in just 3 months!!!
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genpop1
Whatever you do, do not allow yourself to be too influenced by what you read here.
Most opinions - on c.crew and flight deck forums are from individuals who have been in the job some time and natural cynicism takes a hold after a while. It's very difficult to resist the temptation to moan - That is not to say that some points are are not valid...
But....
The best and happiest people I have ever worked with in this and many other industries, are those who have resisted to the temptation to get drawn into too much negativity. These are the guys and girls who light up your morning in the crew centre, even at 4.00am and who you look forward to a 9 day trip with.
The job is what it is. The pay you knew about before you signed and the job is still fantastic. You WILL have a ball - if you go into it with the enthusiasm that you must have shown to pass the selection.
Get in there - enjoy your training and enjoy this incredibly different lifestyle/job. It's unique and can have some amazing 'up' moments.
Good Luck and have some FUN!
Most opinions - on c.crew and flight deck forums are from individuals who have been in the job some time and natural cynicism takes a hold after a while. It's very difficult to resist the temptation to moan - That is not to say that some points are are not valid...
But....
The best and happiest people I have ever worked with in this and many other industries, are those who have resisted to the temptation to get drawn into too much negativity. These are the guys and girls who light up your morning in the crew centre, even at 4.00am and who you look forward to a 9 day trip with.
The job is what it is. The pay you knew about before you signed and the job is still fantastic. You WILL have a ball - if you go into it with the enthusiasm that you must have shown to pass the selection.
Get in there - enjoy your training and enjoy this incredibly different lifestyle/job. It's unique and can have some amazing 'up' moments.
Good Luck and have some FUN!
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Well I'm 3 years in and just about to leave.
Sorry to say it but I am embarassed to be a part of Virgin at the moment.
Oh and SRB and his letter have a lot to answer for........ It's certainly one of the reasons I am leaving - along with the total disregard the management seem to have for their crew, the shoddiness of the "product", costcutting in the most inappropriate areas..........I could go on......
Sorry to say it but I am embarassed to be a part of Virgin at the moment.
Oh and SRB and his letter have a lot to answer for........ It's certainly one of the reasons I am leaving - along with the total disregard the management seem to have for their crew, the shoddiness of the "product", costcutting in the most inappropriate areas..........I could go on......
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Well until recently I had a very poor opinion of VS crew, their work on board and the whole product(following 2 dreadful flights) But having travelled with them last month I must say, the crew I had both ways did not stop, they offered far more services than what my airline would. The people with the opinion that charter crew are worked to death are mistaken every 30 or so minutes on a 10:30 flight they were doing something. And to think I only used Virgin because I didn't want to lose my bag to BA and terminal 5, Glad I chose them. I do agree the service standards between the two fleets are inconsistant- why should you receive an inferior product just because you fly from LGW/MAN and not LHR? If I had to pick a route served from LGW I would not choose Virgin in a month of sundays.
On my flight:-
1 bar- drinks available continuously and no "rolled eyes" if you asked for more!!!- unlike most long haul flights.
1 Meal (with 2 wine services)
3 Juice&Water service
1 Ice cream service
1 Afternoon snack
1 Coffee/muffin/cookie service
Duty Free
That is far more than what we are required to offer and why I am flying from LHR with them again next month and would not even look at BA if Virgin served the same route I wanted to travel on.
On my flight:-
1 bar- drinks available continuously and no "rolled eyes" if you asked for more!!!- unlike most long haul flights.
1 Meal (with 2 wine services)
3 Juice&Water service
1 Ice cream service
1 Afternoon snack
1 Coffee/muffin/cookie service
Duty Free
That is far more than what we are required to offer and why I am flying from LHR with them again next month and would not even look at BA if Virgin served the same route I wanted to travel on.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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FAO 8846 and Av8babe
Well two very different opinions!
What you say 8846 is 100% correct. Yes, I could go off and earn £25k as a junior with other airlines, but I dont fancy 3am calls/4 days on 2 off/and I enjoy that NYC and LA shopping too much, not to mention the caribbean beaches! So for my £34 k as an FSM, I think I'll stay put; and my family and friends that travel free in Upper Class are breathin a sigh of relief!
Of course after all that I'm bound to disagree with what Av8babe says. Maybe its just me, but I didnt find SRBs letter offensive. He spoke plain English. In other words we recieved an 8.9% increase, a promise to look at crew down and gained a block of standby. Better than when you joined, so if you dont like look elsewhere! Simple, no maths. Thats life. Not going to pay anymore so bye bye and "Next please". I dont think thats unreasonable. I like straight talking, so it ticked boxes with me.
As for the service. Well it barely needs commenting on. Still good, which isnt bad, but needs much improvement. It will be resucued though. VA always come out tops in the end even if it did take them a few years to realise that the Reynard seat was pants. Methinks a few emails to SRB may be in order to save J.
In short: If I wanted to work I would. But I dont. I like 80 hours a month and a tan and nice things that no-one else has! So there
Over £2000 pm take home for this does the job thank you very much!
What you say 8846 is 100% correct. Yes, I could go off and earn £25k as a junior with other airlines, but I dont fancy 3am calls/4 days on 2 off/and I enjoy that NYC and LA shopping too much, not to mention the caribbean beaches! So for my £34 k as an FSM, I think I'll stay put; and my family and friends that travel free in Upper Class are breathin a sigh of relief!
Of course after all that I'm bound to disagree with what Av8babe says. Maybe its just me, but I didnt find SRBs letter offensive. He spoke plain English. In other words we recieved an 8.9% increase, a promise to look at crew down and gained a block of standby. Better than when you joined, so if you dont like look elsewhere! Simple, no maths. Thats life. Not going to pay anymore so bye bye and "Next please". I dont think thats unreasonable. I like straight talking, so it ticked boxes with me.
As for the service. Well it barely needs commenting on. Still good, which isnt bad, but needs much improvement. It will be resucued though. VA always come out tops in the end even if it did take them a few years to realise that the Reynard seat was pants. Methinks a few emails to SRB may be in order to save J.
In short: If I wanted to work I would. But I dont. I like 80 hours a month and a tan and nice things that no-one else has! So there
Over £2000 pm take home for this does the job thank you very much!
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Sign-it-to-your-room
Just wonder how happy you wil be when the FSM jobs are no more and your on a pittance of a wage like most of the other virgin crew !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just wonder how happy you wil be when the FSM jobs are no more and your on a pittance of a wage like most of the other virgin crew !!!!!!!!!!!!!