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The Virgin Strike (or not-actually-a-strike) Thread III

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The Virgin Strike (or not-actually-a-strike) Thread III

Old 10th Jan 2008, 18:50
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Monty Casino

Look after the staff and let the staff contentedly look after the customers
I couldn't agree more Monty. I'll post a paragraph taken from a US friend's recent letter once he heard about the Vs strife. He is crew for Southwest Airlines.

"However, for you I'll add for 2008 the strength to deal with the negotiations that your union is dealing with at Virgin Atlantic. You guys have to stay strong and united and push for what is important to you. Branson's remark that "internal strife was the principal reason for airline failure" is totally wrong, it was the mismanagement of the senior officers along with there outrageous bonuses and salaries that caused the airlines failures. Small salary increases for the staff that meet and greet and take care of the customers on a daily basis to fill the planes aren't the reason. His remarks remind me of our previous CEO at Southwest Airlines Jim Parker that was asked to resign after our negotiations. He wrote the same letter stating that his offer was the final offer and if we asked for anymore it would cause us to go bankrupt like the other airlines. Well, as you know he left the company and we got our raise that we wanted and we are the highest paid Flight Attendants and our airline is the most successful and profitable in the U.S. The bottom line, you make your employees happy and in return your customers will be happy and make your business profitable. If their that worried about profits then cut the fat at the top of management to make up for the cabin crew salary raises."
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 20:23
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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The boys at BA must have loved it!


MC with the greatest of respect the boys at BA have enough of there own problems at the moment, I'm sure the non VS cabin crew strike didn't feature that highly.
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 21:54
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Well, as you know I support an average 11% increase for crew, so my comments were more meant for the idea of every department represented by a union saying "they got X%, so we want Y%" - it strikes me as completely unaffordable, and would cripple the company quickly.
So VSlhr, are you suggesting that the ground staff (sorry crew, but regular groundstaff don't have a forum on here for some reason, engineers and dispatchers/ops do but non for the rest of us), some of whom earn less than the crew should just sit idly by and sigh when we got 2% (no negotiation - which is why I thought we had a staff commitee in place of a union to do this - maybe I'm just naieve ) and the crew have got 4.8% for last year and will get another 4.8% in a few months time ?. This also coming just a couple of years after the pilots too got a whopping great payrise after threatening strike action ?. Yet us on the ground without whom the airline would not be able to function and have no union get shafted time after time.

What do you suggest, that we keep putting up with endless price rises on everything, whilst HAVING to live near to the airport which happens to be in the most expensive part of the country as we cannot commute like most crew due to our rosters ?. Even those that live a bit futher out where prices are a bit cheaper then get shafted with the extra cost of petrol. 2% just does not cover these costs. We too should at least be getting RPI. Our 2% is practically a pay cut. It is virtually impossible to get a mortgage for a single person on what most of us earn on the ground to live in a majority of the area's around LHR/LGW. Are you happy living in rented accomodation for ever ? as I'm certainly not !!.

Also why should the crew get crew down payments when they are short and we on the ground don't ?. Do you and I not have to do more work in the same amount of time when we are staff short as well for nothing extra ?.

It would not cripple the company as you say if the company stopped wasting money on silly things like that big ball in the new drive through area and gold plating the ceiling in the revivals lounge, when gold paint would have done just as well or spending 800 on a single office chair of which there are loads around the company when they could have bought chairs for 50 that would work just as well. Aside from staff costs, did you know that the companies 2nd most expensive outlay after fuel is the limo's !!!. Even BA don't offer limo's for their 1st class pax and they do pretty well. Yeah offer them to the top 100 g/c holders to give them an incentive, but as every full fare J pax is entitled to 2 limo's each !!. How cost effective can that be ?. It must certainly be hurting the bottom line !!.

Sorry to the crew/mods for going off on a tangent, but I hope that you can understand how alot of us feel who you leave behind each day as you jet off to far flung places. We don't resent you for what you have achieved, we just want a bit of equality throughout the company when it comes to pay increases.

The flight deck should call up on taxi in and ensure bus is there!
This then exasperates the problem as there are then busses sat around for up to 40 minutes doing nothing whilst you taxi in then disembark the passengers that could be doing something else !!. As Captb747 said, there are only a finite number of busses at LHR, that provide crew transport for almost every airline aside from BA (who have their own - but even they have to wait at busy times) as well as using the same busses for passenger transport too. Also even if they have just 1 driver call in sick, then thats one less bus available to transport you, but hopefully things will improve later in the year when from what I understand crew check-in will move into T3 so you most likely won't be needing busses unless your on a remote stand.


(oh one last unrealted thing, to all VS crew, please please have a read in the rumours thread in the pilots forum about the Qantas 747-400 that almost crashed due to blocked drains in the fwd galley overflowing and taking out the a/c electrical system it left the a/c electrics on battery power only - and believe the engineers when they ask you not to pour milk/orange juice/red wine ect down those drains !!!)


Last edited by Leezyjet; 10th Jan 2008 at 22:52.
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 22:24
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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Leezyjet, I dont know what you want us to say. Ground staff do a valuable job i agree and are certainly a huge part of the airline. I am a member of the union and as i have said in recent posts have been for ten years, paying from 8.00 to 9.40 per month for representation. Or lack of it as the past couple of months has shown !!!!! But without the small amount of representation this pay deal i believe would not have been possible. You guys need to get together . The company will never listen if you dont
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 22:45
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Sorry P/g,

Wasn't meant for crew in general, just VSlhr who seems quite content to sit back and watch the cost of living rise and the flying departments of the company get huge payrises yet thinks us on the ground should just put up and shut up !!.

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Old 10th Jan 2008, 23:13
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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Leezy,

I assure you vslhr doesn't sit back and let the flying department get massive rises. You have to haggle it by engaging them in PPRuNe messages 10 a day at least !!

I think you guys on the ground get a raw deal and need to get a union, can I suggest anyone other than unite. In the interim setup a private yahoo group to discuss your issues internally and only invite in your kin, have open discussions and get things going (meeting up would be better but shift work puts the spanner in the works on that one).

scooby

p.s. unused ice down the suction toilets I hear clear the lines for you
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 23:41
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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with vinegar apprently!! Once a week!!!

We had a VACCC once upon a time, Virgin Atlantic Cabin Crew Committee. It was as good as useless and achieved virtually nothing!! When we joined up with Amicus, it took a long time before we had enough membership that the company had to recognise us, but now we're finally getting somewhere!!

If we managed to get what we did with a BAD union, can you imagine what we could have achieved had we had a good one!! We're going in the right direction at least, we have some way to go, but we're on our way!!

You guys on the ground also deserve better!! 2% is pathetic and that's why so many crew finally dug their heels in and said NO when the company offered us that! Enough was finally enough!!

You guys make sure the aircraft are safe for us to fly on, without you there simply wouldn't be any 'us'!! You make a mistake and it couldn't be catastrophic, you deserve to be paid a decent salary as do we!!

SRB once said that if his staff joined a union, he would close the airline down!! He obviously knew that he couldn't manipulate people who were in a union as much as he could if they weren't!

And to those crew who are happy that they are not in the union, remember that you could have used your vote either way! One day as I have said in here before, you may need some kind of union representation, don't leave it 'till it's toooooo late. One of our crazy but very senior FSM's was gotten rid of because she had no representation by the union at her disciplinary. Had someone been there with her, she would have kept her job, however unfortunate that may have been for the rest of the company!!!!!
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Old 11th Jan 2008, 11:35
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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016fsm

If you've committed an act which is considered to be gross misconduct, any company has the option to sack someone regardless of whether they have representation from a union or not. Just because a rep represent's you, doesn't mean they can get you off everything and anything.

Your comments are misleading at best - suggest you stop watching old re-run's of Kavanagh QC!!!
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Old 11th Jan 2008, 13:57
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by leezyjet
So VSlhr, are you suggesting that the ground staff (sorry crew, but regular groundstaff don't have a forum on here for some reason, engineers and dispatchers/ops do but non for the rest of us), some of whom earn less than the crew should just sit idly by and sigh when we got 2% (no negotiation - which is why I thought we had a staff commitee in place of a union to do this - maybe I'm just naieve ) and the crew have got 4.8% for last year and will get another 4.8% in a few months time ?. This also coming just a couple of years after the pilots too got a whopping great payrise after threatening strike action ?. Yet us on the ground without whom the airline would not be able to function and have no union get shafted time after time.
Firstly: this is a pilots' site, constructed, maintained and paid for by pilots. Other aviation trades are welcome, and many have been given their own forums, but no-one has a 'right' to be here.

Secondly: Staff Committees are a waste of time without the backing of a Union. When the Company polled workgroups on whether they wished for Union representation, only pilots and cabin crew gave a positive response. If you want more effective discussions with the Company, you need a louder voice and a bigger stick.

Thirdly, and hopefully for the last time: THE VIRGIN ATLANTIC PILOTS DID NOT THREATEN TO STRIKE. EVER. I hope that is now clear, even for the hard of reading. They achieved their payrise over two separate negotiations covering 5 years, using calm, rational and well-informed tactics.
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Old 11th Jan 2008, 14:10
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Cyber Bob, you're right what you say about gross mis conduct, but the instance in which I refer, wasn't gross mis conduct. However if you are represented by someone from the union who knows what the company can and cannot legally do, you certainly stand a better chance. They 'may' not be of any help, but you certainly have a better chance.

Ps, sorry don't have time for TV, too busy flying and running my own business!! Oh, other than corrie of course, I like something decent to get my teeth into!!
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Old 11th Jan 2008, 14:27
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016FSM - any company has to abide by a code of conduct when is comes to a disciplinary process otherwise if they sacked someone without justification, the individual would have the right to pursue that company through an industrial tribunal (and more than likely win). Granted union rep's should have an understanding of that particular company's policy but sometimes that's not often the case. Therefore, most modern companies exercise their disciplinary process with caution for that particular reason and I'm sure that's the case with VAA.

It's handy to have a sister who's a HR director
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Old 11th Jan 2008, 22:01
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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016fsm

Your coments astound me. In the thick of things a few days back am I mistaken in my interpretation of what you were saying on here - were you not gong to work on the strike days?????
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