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The Virgin Strike (or not-actually-a-strike) Thread III

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The Virgin Strike (or not-actually-a-strike) Thread III

Old 8th Jan 2008, 19:21
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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The contents of the deal are now irrelevant to me. The fact that the union have accepted it on our behalf has me seething ! .......
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 19:27
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again what exactly is the deal thats been accepted has anyone got a copy please tt
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 19:52
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Our Ref: BB/KN
08 January 2008



To: All Unite Cabin Crew Members at Virgin Atlantic



Dear Colleague,

I am writing to inform you that as a result of further discussions with Virgin Atlantic, Unite has taken the decision to accept an amended offer by the company. This means that the Industrial Action planned for 9th, 10th, 16th and 17th January 2008 is to be cancelled.

The enclosed document sets out the detail of the agreement. In support of the decision by Unite to accept the amended offer, I will outline the principle reasons in making our decision, which are as follows:-

· As you are aware, the increases for Year 2 of the deal were calculated on an assumption of RPI being 3.5%. Having now taken the opportunity to revisit this figure, RPI currently sits at 4.3%. If this figure remains until March 2008, it will mean that coupled with the 4.8% achieved in Year 1, basic salaries could see an overall increase in excess of 9% from 1st April 2008. I will once again state that this is the highest basic increase negotiated for Cabin Crew in the UK.

· The commitment to restructure Trip Pay with an implementation date of 1st April 2009 is seen as the most appropriate way in which to recognise reward for flight duty periods. All Unite members will be given the opportunity to decide on the new structure, with the outcomes being published in December 2008.

· The subject of Crew Down Payments was explored, with the details of the new proposals being included in the attached document. I believe there is now scope to improve the level of Crew Down during the forthcoming period.

· The principle of reviewing the consultative structure, with the sincere intention of improving the employer/employee relationship, was one of the most important items discussed. The inability to resolve employment related matters has been a major source of discontent with Unite members. However, the timescale agreed between Unite and VAA for the review to take place demonstrates the commitment by the parties to make the necessary changes.

In addition to the above, I was also acutely aware of the difficulties Unite members faced while participating in the proposed Industrial Action. A number of factors were considered including the complexity of the Cabin Crew Roster, the legal advice relating to Crew Down Route and the genuine belief that Unite was not prepared to see what would have been a minority of our good members severely disadvantaged by their participation in the action.

The actions of Unite in reaching agreement with the company may be unpopular, but given the developing situation, I believe that it was the correct way in which to resolve the current impasse. I am sure that the majority of our 3,500 members will understand and agree with the decision.

Finally, I would like to take this opportunity to thank Unite Regional Officer, Dave Kelly, and every one of your Workforce Reps for their dedication and commitment throughout this process. This agreement offers all Unite members the opportunity to build on what we have achieved so far. Please make sure you continue to support Unite.

Yours sincerely,

Brian Boyd



cant seem to get the full agreement to copy it keeps coming thru in codes

Last edited by pokergirl; 8th Jan 2008 at 19:53. Reason: adding
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 19:54
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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not good.

Speaking as someone who works for BA, this deal seems ominously familiar to me.
Sickness has to decrease by 50% before they will talk about certain other conditions? That is a massive step change, & very unlikely to occur in the near future.
And all this "setting up consulting with the union". There is a big difference between consulting & negotiation. Consulting can merely mean they come to the meeting & say "this is what we are going to do, There, now you've been consulted. We've heard your opinion, but we choose not to act on it".
This is exactly what we've just had over the last year or so.
It may well have been the best outcome you guys could achieve, then again, maybe not. Like most last-minute deals, its a face saving exercise for the union & management heads. They can both stand there & say they didn't lose.
But I've got a bad feeling you guys did.
Hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you will now have a brave new world where the workers & your opinions are valued.
We certainly don't.
Here's to the next time.
Matt.
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 19:55
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Am i permitted to copy the full agreement , if it was to be poss or should it be kept to restricted (employees) eyes only. Dont want to do anything wrong !!!!
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 20:05
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thanks pokergirl im sure its fine to post tt
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 20:12
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Seems to me that the only people that matter in this airline are the union members!

After 14 years service I would quite like to know what my payrise/deal is, but is anyone willing to tell me even though the deal was thrashed out yesterday? NO.

It seems that info is only privvy to union members.

Come on VS, get a move on and give your other dedicated CC some vital information.



Edited to add, thanks for posting that, we posted at the same time. What does the last column represent?
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 20:14
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pokergirl, better to open notepad on your pc

paste it into that and then copy it from there and past it to here, just remove the table buts they wont work and are exactly the same as the last deal.

alfamatt, I fear you are correct regarding consultation, a lesson learnt from another set of employees.

I just dont understand for the life of me how the union can agree this on our behalfs without a vote, that I intend to find out with a little help.
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 20:16
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It seems that info is only privvy to union members.

Come on VS, get a move on and give your other dedicated CC some vital information.
I think you'll find that's what we pay a monthly subcription for!
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 20:20
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I appreciate that, but VS should recognise that over 1000 CC are not union members and this affects their lives too. iFly should have had the info by now.
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 20:43
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here you go pokergirl ;-) red is the changes

Term
This offer represents a two-year term effective from 01 April 2007 to 31 March 2009.

Basic Pay Award
A basic pay award for all ranks of 4.8% backdated to 01 April 2007.
Basic pay will then increase by RPI on 01 April 2008.

Trip Pay Award and Review
A trip pay award has been applied to each rank backdated to 01 April 2007.
For FSMs and CSSs, in order to reflect their management responsibilities, trip pay will increase by a flat rate, backdated to 01 April 2007.
A second flat rate increase will be effective from 01 April 2008.
All other ranks trip pay will increase by a flat rate backdated to 01 April 2007.
A second flat rate increase will be effective from 01 April 2008.

Tables taken out, same as last offer

As of April 1st 2009 a new formula for the calculation of trip pay will be introduced. VAA and UNITE agree to develop a better and more equitable distribution of the current trip pay pot. This will include a review of a number of variable elements with the intention of recognising flight duty periods. The review will commence April 1st 2008. Both the existing and the proposed schemes will be put to the cabin crew community for an ‘either/or’ vote and the majority view will prevail. This vote will take place before December 2008.

Variable Elements
Variable Elements will be increased in line with basic pay awards. These elements are: - Working up payment, expertise payment, offline allowance.
Maintenance, Ferry flight, stood down, return to base, deadheading and positioning payments will continue to receive trip under the new trip pay rates.

Crew Down Payments
In an effort to monitor and reduce current sickness levels and to substantially improve current crew down levels, VAA and UNITE agree that:
Should VAA not reduce occurrences of flights operating crew down with 2 or more crew down by 50% by June 2008 (this will be measured by comparing the 3 months April to June 2008 versus April to June 2007), the crew down payments will increase with effect from 1st July 2008.
The new payments will be:
• 1 Down – No Change £5 per crew member down per sector (£10 per return trip)
• 2 Down – Increase to £15 per crew member down per sector (£60 per return trip)
• 3 Down – Increase to £22.50 per crew member down per sector (£135 per return trip)
• 4 Down – Increase to £30 per crew member down per sector (£240 per return trip)
However, if average sickness is above 6.49% (days short term sick / working duties, measured over the 3 month measurement period April to June 2008) the crew down payments will remain unchanged.
Loyalty
In order to recognise and reward experience in their management role, a choice of either 50% or 70% contracts will be available to FSMs who have completed 10 years service in rank.
Consultative Structure
To address the non pay issues raised by staff and the Company in the course of this pay dispute, VAA and UNITE agree to review the consultative structure with a view to putting in place a more efficient and effective system for resolving employment related matters. The review will commence in February 2008 with an implementation date of 31st August 2008.

Monthly Standby (See appendix one)


Appendix One


Monthly Standby
To give extra stability to a monthly standby roster we have agreed the following changes to the monthly standby arrangement. This will also allow monthly standby to continue in a more efficient way for both the crew and the business.
5 Blocks in 3 years
5 blocks of standby in 3 years. One of the five blocks will be a stability block. When on a stability month, crew members can only be called for a duty that fits the confines of the roster block. All rostered days off are protected on a stability block unless of course there is down route disruption.
Requesting days off in a Standby month
All crew will now be able to request two days off via Carmen Interbids in ALL standby months. The granted requested days will be protected. Should crew not request days off or be unsuccessful with their request then two days off during the standby month will be identified and guaranteed in the event of call out.
Swapping of standby months
To increase flexibility crew will now be able to swap their standby months with other crew of the same rank. To facilitate this, there will be a ‘Yearly vision’ when crew members can expect to have a standby month rostered. All crew will be able to know one year ahead when their standby month will be rostered. This also results in a change to the current leave allocation.
Yearly Leave allocation
All cabin crew will be able to bid for their entire annual leave allocation for one calendar year (January – December). This will require a change to the current system of crew bidding for leave twice a year e.g. January – June then July -December. Currently all crew will have been allocated leave for January 08 – June 08 therefore under this agreement, a yearly vision and request for leave will be implemented for July 2008 – June 2009 leave.

The monthly standby arrangements to be reviewed by the Unite/Virgin Atlantic Airways Joint Review Group
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 20:45
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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I just dont understand for the life of me how the union can agree this on our behalfs without a vote, that I intend to find out with a little help.
Let's say, for instance, they invited the union in and proved to them that they were about to operate a near-full schedule, and would crush the union if they continued to pursue this. However, what would be best for both sides (and future harmony) would be to accept the last deal with minor modifications and move on.

Perhaps being given an opportunity to vote on this was not part of the deal (much like it is for the rest of us). It was that, or nothing.

I think you've got the best deal you can hope for. Voting to reject it won't make it better, it'll make it worse.
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 21:07
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Vs lhr

For once I agree with you Vs lhr despite the fact that you are not cabin crew whilst in a cabin crew forum, without the slightest notion of what our job entails.

Under the circumstances I feel that this is the best outcome for all concerned. It'll soon be April which will bring in the second part of the deal and then we are in a position to start all over again soon after that.

As an FSM with 17 years loyal and dedicated service to VS I will not be jumping ship and joining BA (despite SRB's recommendation).

I for one voted to accept the pay deal in the first place as did many of my mates (also FSM's), however, my fellow members/colleagues decided to reject it, so then to support the majority view, voted to strike.

NEVER AGAIN!

Once the CC and SCC worked out that by working through the strike, whether members or not, they would earn with disruption payments and crew down payments more than the original pay deal was worth anyway, most or many on my flights were going to work on the strike days. Unbelievable, the very people that voted to strike were going to go to work. It just doesn't make sense.

This now has put a divide between the 4 ranks right down the middle as most CSS's and FSM's I know were willing to strike despite whether they voted to strike or not. We are here for the long haul. As a mate says we'll be going out in a box when the time comes.

I think it's high time the CSS's and FSM's broke away from the CC and SCC and went to a Union who recognised the management status the company keep telling us we are and who can NEGOTIATE NOT CONSULT on our behalves.

I'll duck now waiting for the barrage of abuse!
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 21:08
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A lot of posts here and elsewhere seem to be ignoring the fact that this situation had become a complete mess. The very best that could happen was for ANY deal to be decided upon. It gives the opportunity to regroup and present a better, more measured and organised argument next time round. And lets hope that (some) people will take this whole thing a bit more seriously and actually be bothered to turn up at union meetings and cast votes when required.
Lets put this one down to experience.
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 21:20
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Vs FSM Oct 1990

And that is the very reason I chose to leave the union last month after paying into it since day one!

I too now expect a barrage of abuse as I wholly agree with you.
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 22:31
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fsm oct, could not agree more.

vslhr, given the stuff ilie has been spouting I would be surprised if the union was presented with a list as long as my arm of people willing to work, probably ficticious though but the union would have no way of checking.

conspiracy.....

as for the union not allowing its' members to vote on it, I think they may get in hot water over that....
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 22:34
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sign it to your room

I am rapidly coming to the same conclusion as you.

Leave this holy shower of a Union - save myself a few quid each month -then if and only if the CSS's and FSM's break away rejoin even if it costs double per month with the new 'outfit' whoever that may be!
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 22:40
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For once I agree with you Vs lhr despite the fact that you are not cabin crew whilst in a cabin crew forum, without the slightest notion of what our job entails.
Actually, I think we're guests of the pilots on this website, and as any conclusion reached in this dispute directly effect me, I feel I am entitled to air an opinion. I'm not about to compromise where I work, but thanks for caring.

You are absolutely right that money would have tempted those that voted to strike back into work. The reason they were so quick to ditch their position was because I don't think they really had a stomach for stirke due to that perpetuated whisper that Dicky wouldn't possibly let it go to a strike - think of the publicity? When he didn't arrive on a white charger as the champion of the crew, I think there was a collective sigh of "oh balls" as the strike date grew ever nearer with no possibility of the company whipping out their cheque books.

I think it's high time the CSS's and FSM's broke away from the CC and SCC and went to a Union who recognised the management status the company keep telling us we are and who can NEGOTIATE NOT CONSULT on our behalves.
Whilst splitting off into a separate union may weaken your negotiating power, I can only applaud the idea of finding a union that would take the trouble to find out what its members actually want.

A lot of posts here and elsewhere seem to be ignoring the fact that this situation had become a complete mess.
Funny, I thought I'd been saying that since November
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 22:41
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From what has been posted above, doest it not mean that Virgin has to reduce the amount of flights going crew down by 50%. If they dont then they have to up the crew down payments.

Unless average sickness is above 6.49% in which case nothing changes.

This gives me the impression that its not sickness that is causing most of the trouble regarding crew down but something the company is doing, perhaps not rostering enough crew for each flight.

Then again maybe the current sickness average is way above 6.49% (does anyone have the figure?). In which case this seems fair to me!!!
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 22:49
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vslhr, given the stuff ilie has been spouting I would be surprised if the union was presented with a list as long as my arm of people willing to work, probably ficticious though but the union would have no way of checking.
Well, I guess we'll never know - but speculating sure is fun, isn't it?

Way back in the dark ages (possibly last week), I think I came up with numbers which showed that even if all those who voted to strike and all those who didn't bother to vote had gone on strike, the remainder, combined with qualified cover from the office, could have made a go of it.

Now, let's say the 1000 who didn't bother to vote decided to take the king's shilling; and doesn't that seem more likely? Couldn't be arsed voting in an important ballot, and then the company wave a few hundred quid under their noses. You can bet the phone line was busy.
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