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The Virgin Strike (or not-actually-a-strike) Thread III

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The Virgin Strike (or not-actually-a-strike) Thread III

Old 8th Jan 2008, 12:06
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Dear Vs Lhr,
Branson may well have been trying to say that VS could not afford the same rates as BA. The fact remains that you will still be the lowest paid crew in the U.K., on average 2,000 per year worse off than even the charter/low cost airlines.
No, bmi are the lowest paid crew; and if you'd bothered to read my previous posts you would have seen that I support a 2K rise for VS crew.

How do you feel about the outcome, I have re-read all your posts since yesterday and none of them seem to be in a positive light ? Why ? are you not happy with the outcome ? Most crew members I have spoken since the news are, yet you are not ?
Well, if you have read all my posts since the announcement, you will have noticed my first post (at the end of thread 2, I think) was 'Excellent news' - and I still stand by that. It is excellent news that the strike has been averted and we can move on in a more amicable manner. My negative opinion comes from those who are now backslapping the union who nearly took our company into this damaging strike because of their inability to understand what their members want. This is followed up by people suggesting we all should be unionised - and frankly, that leaves me with my head in my hands.

As for holding the company to ransom for an inflation busting payrise, you and I both know this has been a long time coming and it's going to continue unless things drastically improve by April 2009.
Well, as you know I support an average 11% increase for crew, so my comments were more meant for the idea of every department represented by a union saying "they got X%, so we want Y%" - it strikes me as completely unaffordable, and would cripple the company quickly.

Regarding taking the bread out of others mouths, nearly fell off my chair when you stooped that low.
It's only as low as being told those that are not in a union are apathetic (I know that wasn't you, Scooby). In hindsight it may have been harsh, but I feel the one who are apathetic are people who join a union and then don't bother to vote. Those that don't join a union maybe, like me, are making a conscious decision about membership.

Now that this round is over will you finally admit you are management ?
Don't be silly, Scoobs. Who in management works the hours I post at?

After the mess cabin crew have just been through, I would say the last thing other areas of the company want is a union. And for those on here claiming it's a victory for cabin crew against Virgin - wasn't it you guys who were getting more and more in a panic as the strike approached when the realisation really started to set in about what striking really meant. I don't think we needed a crystal ball to predict was was going to happen. It was you guys who wanted the deal and went back in to talks (thankfully). On another forum you were all saying about getting talking to the reps and talking to Brian Boyd again because you wanted the removed deal that you last rejected put back onto the table and that you would now accept it. After all, you had 2 deals recommended to you and I'm damn glad you eventually saw the light.


it's up to every department to fight for what they feel they deserve
And if every department got 4.8%, how far into the red would the company be, and how long before Branson either pulls the plug or sells us to Ryanair because it's losing too much money. Let's face it, his investment in the airline would earn far more if he simply put it in the building society.
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 12:12
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Not sure what to make of Richards latest letter, copy on cc.com.
It implies the last deal is the one that has been accepted, I truly hope this is not the case otherwise there is going to be a lot of upset people (me included).
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 12:31
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Well done

Well on a selfish note i would like to say great news now my family gets to fly on our hols in a couple of weeks, and would also like to add I hope both sides feel content with the outcome I truly believe with all my heart that virgin are the best and ALL the staff are a credit to Mr Branson. I wish you all a happy new year
Kind
Regards
Richard H
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 13:32
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guys your very naive if you think the union won this. The CC were all willing to take the blood money and walk past the picket lines. No solidarity no strike no effectiveness. Virgin 1 Union 0!! All other neg will be done in an atmosphere of superiority from VS Management. For those ejits who voted to strike (lets face it the avg crew member only lasts 2-3 years) have lost a lot of negotiation power. I don't think you should be allowed to mention names such as Paul name in a previous thread!!

The crew at VS need to grow up and accept that when you sign a contract the company agree to give you a salary and that's it. If you want to be BA (sure you have been knocked back) go and join them. VS is offering a different product to BA and has a this represented in the J cabin. My advice to all the VS union reps is get out of that job now! as all the moaning crew will be as two faced as Paisley town hall clock.
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 13:41
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I do find it odd that if the company had enough crew to run a near perfect schedule why they just did not go ahead and do that. By doing this they would have further weakened the union saved themselves several million in the process by not increasing all crews wages
Scooby, I don't think all companies are the exploitive evil empires that some union protagonists would have us believe. Is it not possible, that having worked the numbers to make a 4.8% deal affordable, the company genuinely wanted to offer crew that deal? Perhaps, like me, they understand that VS lags behind everyone bar bmi and plan to take the steps to bring them more in line - but it has to be done in an affordable way which allows the bean counters to absorb the cost without making drastic cuts in other areas to pay for it.

I still believe the boss is a visionary leader with altruistic tendencies - but above all he is a level-headed businessman who knows the importance of keeping costs lower than turnover.
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 13:42
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unite update

Through correspondance with Mr Boyd he has said that a letter will go to all union members tonight and will be available on the unite website from 4pm with the details.
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 13:44
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I dont think anyone is under the impression that the union won. No-one not even you will ever find out which way it could have gone. All i know is that flying after that letter the general feeling with the crew was they were not going to work. I would have never asked any crew on my flights how they were going to vote. RB has fought battles in his business environment all the way in the past if he thought he was right, so could it be that the company really knew how the crew were feeling. We should ALL learn a lesson from this, cc, management etc. This should never get to this stage again, and should all stop slagging each other off and be adults, whether you agree with the outcome or not.
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 13:45
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vs_lhr, thanks for reply, on a seperate note as you seem to know whats going on, is it true we are being moved out of the place we have been for many years ? edit to add in SFO (I know you are good but you couldnt of known where I was talking about )
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 13:59
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scoobydooo

Which is why they are worth more than 2%, and if VA wont give it to them willingly then need a union to ensure they get what they deserve... i.e. more.

I believe you deserved a decent payrise and I'm glad you got a resolution. It would be interesting to see what management are now thinking regards ground staff for this year and next year. I would doubt they can go down the road of giving everyone 4.8%, otherwise we might aswell pack up and go home now. Not sure how many would sign up for any union membership after what everyone has witnessed though, nor do I believe union's are necessarily always the correct way to deal with things. It seems to me that the cabin crew ended up solving the problem by seeing what was happening and solving the issue themselves after Unite made such a mess of it.

016FSM

So please don't assume that our lives are a breeze, we work very hard as do other departments.

I never said you don't work hard, but each day is different for all - some busy, some not so busy. Things go wrong in the air, things go wrong on the ground and it has to be dealt with. Nobody in my opionion is better or more important than anyone else. Everyone is just as important as the next person whether they're crew, ground staff, engineers, check-in, pen pushers, paper shufflers etc and they all play their part in keeping the well oiled (and not so well oiled) wheels in motion. Things can't be perfect all the time with everything going 100% right day in day out - get a bit boring if it did don't you think?

Nuff said, time to move on - new year, new challenges. Lets all be friends again and hope for a happier 2008.

Last edited by KevlarLHR; 8th Jan 2008 at 14:10.
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 14:09
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vs_lhr, thanks for reply, on a seperate note as you seem to know whats going on, is it true we are being moved out of the place we have been for many years ? edit to add in SFO (I know you are good but you couldnt of known where I was talking about )
Not that I'm aware of, Scoobs, but if I do spot anything juicy I'll drop you a PM
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 17:18
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Hi ya scooby. Its showing on ifly that the SFO has changed and from when. Does anyone know of the package with the accepted deal yet ?
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 17:36
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Summary of the agreed package, taken from cc.com

It's always a concern when the closing para of a cover letter closes with "The actions of Unite in reaching agreement with the company may be unpopular....."

Not too sure what to make of this;
Basis Pay and Trip increments the same as last deal
It details the trip pay from April 2008 moving forward, but not back pay trip pay from '07, we need this quantified.

Standby proposal of last deal is the same

New elements

Commitment to change way trip pay is paid, recognising length of duty periods.
Increase of crew down payments if sickness is reduced over a monitored period by 50%
Consultative structre - improving getting things sorted between employer and employer

Thoughts

To be honest I am not entirely sure, The new components are good news, the crew down increments as an incentive to reduce sicnkess are also a step in the right direction, however I think 50% seems a bit of a hefty starting target, I think there is no way it will be achieved (probably why it was agreed), slowly slowly catchy monkey reduce by 25% would of been a better more realistic starting block. Needs to exclude genuine sickness covered by a doctors note too.

I note this too, " The monthly standby arrangements to be reviewed by the Unite/Virgin Atlantic Airways Joint Review Group."

I suppose that means standby blocks can be increased and/or decreased without our vote.
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 18:01
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hey all I cant log on to amicus site to see what the deal is can somepone that can forward to me or post on here
thanks lots tt
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 18:08
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No neither can I or my mate log into Amicus/Unite. Please someone who can hightlight the details on here asap!! We're dying here with baited breath!
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 18:10
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You've been done again

Bearded one 1 cabin crew 0 !
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 18:18
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You've been done again

You've been done again

Bearded one 1 cabin crew 0
Thanks for that SN. There are no winners or losers in this situation. Your non constructive jokey type post are not appreciated just now.
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 18:46
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You've been done again

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Don't think this is true. Although it is probably not the outright victory the cabin crew wanted, from what I have seen they have won concessions and a commitment to look at the other contentious issues. This is better than the last deal on the table?

The issue is why the union accepted this deal without consultation. It seems another chapter in their inability to communicate with their members. I would hope the CC now look at getting a union that will actually represent them properly in future...

Virgin as an airline didn't win. They have lost a lot of business. No winners at all.
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 18:49
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Well, as mentioned earlier I am very disappointed as I'm sure a number of crew are. I am failing to understand how BB can decide that this is the deal for the crew without having a vote of the crew.

Is there an ombudsman/watchdog which overseas unions becasue right now I would like to have unite investigated as this seems unacceptable to me and not democtratic.

So just when I thought I could chill out I now have to start digging around to find out about who overseas unions and ensures they are acting in the members best interests.
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 19:00
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Well, as mentioned earlier I am very disappointed as I'm sure a number of crew are. I am failing to understand how BB can decide that this is the deal for the crew without having a vote of the crew.
Scooby I would guess that the full story behind this decision has not been heard yet, and it may be wise to wait a couple of days. However I would urge you all to take an action the union will understand, resign and move somewhere that gives you the representation you need.

On a personal note I just booked a flight to SFO with VS (in Y!) and I look forward to the excellent service I always get from you guys and gals.

RP
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 19:02
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Well, as mentioned earlier I am very disappointed as I'm sure a number of crew are. I am failing to understand how BB can decide that this is the deal for the crew without having a vote of the crew.

Is there an ombudsman/watchdog which overseas unions becasue right now I would like to have unite investigated as this seems unacceptable to me and not democtratic.

So just when I thought I could chill out I now have to start digging around to find out about who overseas unions and ensures they are acting in the members best interests.
To be fair Scoobs, I reckon this is probably the best deal that could have been achieved at this stage, and the union were wise to the fact the strikes weren't going to have the necessary impact. The alternative was likely to be a largely uninterrupted schedule and union members eventually limping back to work with no deal whatsoever. The only outcome of that would have been bad blood for months - maybe years - to come. Not pleasant for any of us.

However, the union have made bigger mistakes than this, and for that they need kicking to the kerb.
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