Cross check chucked
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane Australia
Age: 56
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cross check chucked
Is it just me or does it seem really stupid that an airline gets rid of the cross-check procedure then we are inundated with company notices, OH&S alerts and Crew News updates on the importance of correctly disarming a door? A while ago it was about the A330 arming lever being in the 'armed' mode when crew board - now it's the importance or ensuring the girt bar is safely stowed before cracking a door - a recent incident where a ground staff member 'could' have been injured was highlighted. I have even been responsible for cracking a door without correctly disarming a 737 door due to long, long LONG multi sector day and human error - had my opposite primary not cross checked (one of the old team who like me haven't dropped the procedure) then the slide would have at least dropped out of the bustle. I reported the indcident and stressed the importance of crosscheck - I don't get it - it's not an engineering modification - it's just a manual update and an operational change - no welding required! Any comments from other airlines?
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At Jetstar we cross check arming and dis-arming. For the sake of a few steps and a few seconds, I think it is worthwhile. Even though we dont open the doors from the inside, and the door automatically disarms (on A320) if opened by groundstaff from the outside!!!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Depends on the aircraft. If the company operates a widely varied fleet it may just be to streamline the procedure to infact eliminate the possibility of error.
Generally 737 and single aisle aircraft are crosschecked as 1 Crew member can be in control of more than one exit and therefore has double the responsibilty and crosschecking then takes some of that added responsibility away.
Personally I dont think its really required, but follow the procedure as stated in the manual, and I suggest you do the same.
Generally 737 and single aisle aircraft are crosschecked as 1 Crew member can be in control of more than one exit and therefore has double the responsibilty and crosschecking then takes some of that added responsibility away.
Personally I dont think its really required, but follow the procedure as stated in the manual, and I suggest you do the same.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Arming and disarming a door, it's not exactly rocket science
If you were as fatigued as you suggest, you should never have boarded the last sector - you should have offloaded yourself & sought medical advise from your companies local doctor - you have a responsability to yourself, your crew & your passengers to be fit for duty. If you were so fatigued you couldn't correctly disarm a door that actually requires you physically bend down, remove a girt bar & relocate it (i.e. it's not a case of simply moving an incorrect lever) what state would you have been in if you'd actually been required to evacuate an aircraft, fight a fire, give CPR or do a cabin prep?
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At first on glance, a valid if smart alec and superfluous remark.
And yet Raver..... if it was a simple as you make it out to be, why do we world wide have a regular stream of inadvertently blown slide incidents?
On all types, all airlines, blown by FAs with completely different backgrounds, with different lengths & types of training, working with and without the cross check?
It is not as straightforward as you make it out to be, not at all.
As to the subject of the thread, what would be really interesting is to compare the incidence of ISDs with and without the cross check procedure.
I donīt know if that comparison has ever been made, does anybody here know if those numbers are available?
On a personal note, like Baade, I have cracked a 737 door with the slide bar still in the floor fittings. I managed to close it again before the slide inflated, so the slide didnīt inflate.
The thing is, we do use the cross check procedure. But my buddy had had the same artrociously long day and didnīt spot it.
Personally, and without having any numbers to back it up, I doubt the the added value of the cross check.
I think that to solve the problem, more training, less blaming and a dose of new thinking is required.
Interesting thread Baade152.
.
And yet Raver..... if it was a simple as you make it out to be, why do we world wide have a regular stream of inadvertently blown slide incidents?
On all types, all airlines, blown by FAs with completely different backgrounds, with different lengths & types of training, working with and without the cross check?
It is not as straightforward as you make it out to be, not at all.
As to the subject of the thread, what would be really interesting is to compare the incidence of ISDs with and without the cross check procedure.
I donīt know if that comparison has ever been made, does anybody here know if those numbers are available?
On a personal note, like Baade, I have cracked a 737 door with the slide bar still in the floor fittings. I managed to close it again before the slide inflated, so the slide didnīt inflate.
The thing is, we do use the cross check procedure. But my buddy had had the same artrociously long day and didnīt spot it.
Personally, and without having any numbers to back it up, I doubt the the added value of the cross check.
I think that to solve the problem, more training, less blaming and a dose of new thinking is required.
Interesting thread Baade152.
.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No its not rocket science but **** happens.
And its not a small piece of **** its a whopping great big $50 000 could poetentially kill someone on the outside turd.
I have fogotten to arm a door. The pin wouldn't come out and by the time I wrenched it out I just closed the cover and walked away. But because we cross check we realised straight away.
I think it takes 2 seconds and doesn't cost the company any money to do so so why not cross check
And its not a small piece of **** its a whopping great big $50 000 could poetentially kill someone on the outside turd.
I have fogotten to arm a door. The pin wouldn't come out and by the time I wrenched it out I just closed the cover and walked away. But because we cross check we realised straight away.
I think it takes 2 seconds and doesn't cost the company any money to do so so why not cross check
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane Australia
Age: 56
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you Overhere for your indepth medical assessment - as a responsible crew member I would have stood down from duty had I thought for one minute I was in any way a risk to my pax or fellow crew (day one of training school I think) but to make that assessment 4 hours previously before that flight departs is certainly a case of soapbox selling of hindsight. The issue isn't that I was incapable - physically or otherwise of disarming a door but a series of out-of-sequence and unexpected deviations from SOP by the company and other crew which led to human error - I'm sure you are familiar with the Swiss Cheese Model. My error was another hole in the sequence and reported - as should all errors - with the intention of preventing another incident with a far worse outcome - I have seen a fair share of slides deployed whilst this 'procedure' has been in place and not one beforehand.
And I agree - arming/disarming isn't rocket science - it's the 101 other things happening around that could - and have caused distraction. Enjoyed your input and view all the same.
And I agree - arming/disarming isn't rocket science - it's the 101 other things happening around that could - and have caused distraction. Enjoyed your input and view all the same.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You're right there are other things that may happen at the time of arming and disarming a door that's why we need to be extra vigilant and aware during this time.
Having operated a lot of flights that arrive in the early hours of the morning after a night of back of clock flying, I always take a few seconds to stop and think about what I'm about to do before I touch the door.
Complacency I'm sure is a contributor to slides being blown in regards to your question Judd.
Having operated a lot of flights that arrive in the early hours of the morning after a night of back of clock flying, I always take a few seconds to stop and think about what I'm about to do before I touch the door.
Complacency I'm sure is a contributor to slides being blown in regards to your question Judd.
