Digitalis

Be careful about suggestions that either one group or another will be stigmatised after this is all over. Remember that whatever your personal viewpoint, you will have to work together both before, through and after the strike period, and you will need to get on both professionally and personally. Difficult as it may be not to, setting against someone because they took a different viewpoint from you is corrosive and damaging. Accept that people's opinions will vary, and that they are as entitled to hold them as you are to hold yours.

While it is possible that individuals' cards could be marked because they struck/worked/abstained, it would profit no-one to do so, and would abosrb a lot of effort and energy better used getting things back on an even keel once this is all over. And, have no doubt, it will be over soon one way or another. If you are consumed by hatred of those who took a different standpoint from you, it is you who will be the poorer - and that's true whether you're CC, management, the Union or the Company!

As I have said, several times, the only way this will be solved is by discussion. The strike will have achieved something if it gets both parties back to the table, but its lack of clarity or stated aims, and the Union's obvious ignorance of what CC actually want, don't bode well for those who support a strike. Sadly, it seems that we will now have to wait until the 9th to see who comes out on top. Whatever the result on the day, I can't see any winners emerging from the dust. Everyone in Virgin will have lost in some way, and that loss will have been unnecessary and futile.

As for crewing ringing round, that does not imply any miscalculation on the Company's part. It simply means they are trying to refine their estimates (for that is all they are) of how many crew they can expect on the 9th, and thus determine both how many flights will actually operate, and with how many crew on each flight. It's one of the few sensible measures being taken while all the nastiness goes on.

BY_boy

I asked BB what on earth the Union is playing at and what they are doing about the current situation and I got the following response -

This Union has had 2 previous recommendations to accept the Company's offer rejected by our Membership. I accept the democratic process, and our members views. It is not a game of charades. Unite is doing everything it can to resolve the current situation. You may need to start asking the Company the same questions you have posed with me.

virgin dolly

1, I've just heard that the union is trying to stop the extra payments on strike days....as it's classed as a bribe....!

2, Also a senior cabin crew rep has just resigned.....!

Could anyone comfirm the above..!

Regards,

Virgin Dolly

BY_boy

All the reps should resign along with BB

vs_lhr

Interesting. The union call it a bribe, the company call it a bonus. Not that the union can stop the company paying the additional cash to its own employees. If they were slipping dirty fivers under the table to Boyd, however, that would be a different matter.

Nicola1

Just out of curiosity, i am starting my training on the 14th Jan and i think the strike is on the 16th Jan. Does this mean that the trainers will have to go in the air as all the crew will be on strike. Also, does this mean there will be a break in my training?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

016FSM

I would check with the company for that answer! Nobody on here will know for SURE! Call them and they'll tell you straight away!

016FSM

Allow me to re itterate what I said earlier and also in previous posts, I personally respect everyone's views of what they want to do about the strike, we all have our views and are not scared of airing them as we see on here, however, I feel, that many of the junior crew who make up the largest part of the crew network, will be making their decision on how they feel they will be best treated after this is all over. The way they are treated on the aircraft DOES affect them directly and even though I think that is the wrong way to go about deciding what to do, I think it is already happening.

Just wanted to throw that in!!

Also, by the way, apparently there has been a sudden rush on new memberships to amicus over the xmas period, but doesn't say from which company! Any guesses???

VCCM

Black marks, remember discrimination in the workplace rules cover union members being treated differently to non members or strikers vs non strikers. Granted proving it individually could be hard but as a collective, not so hard.

Funny the company have started phoning around now, as advertised the simple response of unsure as of yet is great.

The must have so many volounteers

fruitbat

Its all just routine PR before a strike, tell the worrried workers that others are willing to take your job. It's all rubbish of course, it's just the start of the bully boy tactics.

virgin dolly

I've just read another thread and talks have started again with BAA and the union. I understand 1 strike day may now be cancelled.

All the BAA staff stuck together....it's paying off.

B.A cabin crew stuck together......it payed off.

Virgin flight deck stuck together....it to payed off.

If we stick together and stay united I'm sure this will pay off too.

Virgin Dolly

Hand Solo

Well they've forced a an assessment of the pension scheme, but there's no solution as yet.

No it didn't. Everyone knows that BA cabin crew got nothing from their fiasco.

virgin dolly

BAA have beed forced back into talks with Unite.....1 strike day has been cancelled......

B.A. Cabin crew got a "good fair deal" in the end.....So why did'nt the strike go ahead...?

Why did'nt you say anything about our Flight deck.......?

Hand Solo

Dolly - BA cabin crew didn't get a 'fair deal' in the end, BA got everything they wanted. The only thing the cabin crew got was discounting of certain illnesses from the absence monitoring program, something which they were already supposed to get anyway. Apart from the that they still lost the 4th purser on the jumbo, failed to get the guarantees on CSD positions on shorthaul, had to self fund the increased pay for juniors by delaying everyones pay rise by 6 months, failed to reopen the MAN base and only got the pension deal that the flight crew had already negotiated. The point of all this is that 'sticking together' does not necessarily get results. A union needs to have a clear and realistic idea of what they want and how they are going to get. Having a 96% mandate for a strike but no real idea of what you want gets you shafted. The VS flight crew had solidarity and a clear plan of what they wanted and how to get it. At this moment in time it would appear that your unions position is much closer to the situation of BASSA in BA than BALPA in VS.

Re the BAA situation, the unions have forced BAA back to the negotiating table but the battle is far from won. There will now be a prolonged period of investigation and negotiation but I'll bet you a beer that in a years time the BAA pensions scheme as it is now will still be closed to new entrants, which is what the unions wanted to prevent.

MuttleyJ

"Quote:
B.A cabin crew stuck together......it payed off.
No it didn't. Everyone knows that BA cabin crew got nothing from their fiasco."
............................

Not strictly true Hand Solo. The "new" contract pay scale was increased and a precentage pay rise was negotiated. Other negotiations at the time resulted in BA and BASSA signing agreements - true, BA have not kept to their side of most of those agreements in the last year, but the union was not to know at the time that that would happen. But the pay rise still stands.

Anyway, back to topic

Edited: you were quick and posted before me!! Yes I agree with the points in your above post about BA management, but those talks still resulted in the crew getting a pay rise.

016FSM

Our Reps are all flying. The TU facilities have been taken away during the dispute. No talks planned despite these rumours. However we have always stated our willingness to get back to the table. I will not be building up any hopes.

virgin dolly

I'm standing by statement BA cabin crew got a "Good Fair Deal"

BAA are back in talks....good....1 strike day cancelled..!

VA management still could open their door..?....Unite have their doors wide open..!

Anything to say about VA flight crew...?


Dolly

Hand Solo

The point is Muttley that the pay rise was the same one everybody else in the company got, RPI plus a tiny bit, but by implementing the pay rise in February 07 rather than October 06 when it was due, and not backdating it, it self funded the increase in the new contract pay scale. BASSA didn't actually win any more money from BA above the corporate pay offer, they simply redistributed the pot of cash they had to pay for the increase in new contract scales. Smoke and mirrors.

Dolly - I'm afraid you have to be a little more realistic in your outlook if you want to win a strike. You can stand by your view that BA cabin crew got a fair deal if you like, but majority of BA cabin crew know they got shafted by the TGWU and all the BASSA reps know they came out of it with a rubbish deal. They barely even tried to put any spin on it and accused the TGWU of selling them out. Does that sound like the response of people who got a fair deal? If thats the kind of result you want in Virgin then I'm sure the management will be only too willing to oblige!

016FSM

VA flt deck didn't get their deal overnight! For those of us who can remember that far back, they fought for a number of years to get where they are today and slowly slowly, it got better and then finally 6 months or so after 9/11 believe it or not!, when the company was still reeling from the effects of that tragedy, they got to where they wanted to be. Now they are paid in line with other carriers INCLUDING BA flight deck. Yes they fly more hours, but they get better money for doing so.

It didn't happen during one set of negotiations, they climbed a small step at a time for 2 or 3 years and then went for the big one! This is the first time we have even had decent pay negotiations with enough crew to give the union any strength and because we ARE strong enough now to make ourselves heard, I think the 'authority' went to everybody's heads and we decided to "teach the company a lesson" so to speak, vote yes to STRIKE!!

We did quite well by getting the 2% deal thrown out and the 2nd deal of losing a crew member and our air share. We should have taken the 3rd offer of 3.4% but even I didn't see it like that at the time, we were all far too concerned with getting more and more and more. We didn't have good representation from the union or our reps and nobody told us to take it slowly and we'd get there!! Had we accepted this deal, at the end of next year we would already have started negs for the next rise. And remember, when all this is over, our flt deck are going to start THEIR negs for their next rise, do you think they'll stand for Branson saying, if you don't like it go elsewhere?

Human Factor

Bit of thread creep. Virgin pilots are contracted for 750 hours per year. BA pilots are contracted for 900 hours. BA pilots are paid more overall however per hour Virgin pilots are paid a little more!!