The Virgin Strike Thread (Merged)
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It all comes down to risk versus reward. Some are willing to risk a relatively low % of their yearly salary in order to seek rewards for the rest of their careers within the airline.
What it will cost the airline in comparison to the individual crew member is huge. Crew would rather not take the risk but when backed into a corner there is no further choice and a joint front must be presented.
Perhaps other parties who have bonuses linked to turnover (which may be reduced by Industrial action) wont love the idea.
Good luck everyone.
What it will cost the airline in comparison to the individual crew member is huge. Crew would rather not take the risk but when backed into a corner there is no further choice and a joint front must be presented.
Perhaps other parties who have bonuses linked to turnover (which may be reduced by Industrial action) wont love the idea.
Good luck everyone.
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There are probably quite a few "Other Parties" who have their livelyhood linked to their continued employment with VA. Ah well... at least BA will do better when VA are out of the way ....
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strikertworedshoes - let me explain it another way. Your salary will be divided by 365 to get a daily rate. VS will deduct that amount from your wages for every day you're on strike. You will be considered to be on strike from the first day you refuse to work until the day that you next go to work. That's the law.
Why don't you ask one of the flight deck reps next time you go to work - BALPA seems to be a much better organised and more efficient union than Amicus - they're certainly better informed.
Why don't you ask one of the flight deck reps next time you go to work - BALPA seems to be a much better organised and more efficient union than Amicus - they're certainly better informed.
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Sorry tired, Not sure how flightdeck works but striker is right regarding the calculated value of a day off work, it is not simply salary/365 for us. Take a day of unpaid leave and it is much higher becasue of this.
Take for example this extract from another poston another forum
If we were on £55 a day x365 would on £20K basic for a junior... I dont think we would be in this situation if that was the case 
Take for example this extract from another poston another forum
Point 3.
Where did you hear a JNR is on £39 per day. I have the lastest daily rates of pay here and its more like £55. Basic salary is not divided by 365 days but by approx 260, taking into account rest days and holiday.
Where did you hear a JNR is on £39 per day. I have the lastest daily rates of pay here and its more like £55. Basic salary is not divided by 365 days but by approx 260, taking into account rest days and holiday.
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Yachtnumber1
I don't think BA would be better off without VS's competition, as I believe competition is healthy for all concerned.
But then I also don't think that anything except a very lengthy strike (which I can't see happening) would bring VS down.
Do any of you VS guys & girls feel slightly miffed that the bearded one says he hasn't got the money to give you the deal you want, & yet has got the money to bail out Northern Rock? I know VS & the Virgin "empire" have different financial structures, but even so............................................
Matt.
I don't think BA would be better off without VS's competition, as I believe competition is healthy for all concerned.
But then I also don't think that anything except a very lengthy strike (which I can't see happening) would bring VS down.
Do any of you VS guys & girls feel slightly miffed that the bearded one says he hasn't got the money to give you the deal you want, & yet has got the money to bail out Northern Rock? I know VS & the Virgin "empire" have different financial structures, but even so............................................
Matt.
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Isn't the 'bearded one' heading a financial consortium with most of the money for Northern Rock coming from other groups and institutions? I think has financial involvement is comparatively small.
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Virgin's consortium, including hedge fund Toscafund and US buyout specialist Wilbur Ross, would pay for £650m of the capital injection, including £200m from Virgin itself. The rest would come from a six-for-one rights issue of stock at 25p a share, which would leave Virgin owning 55pc of the company if shareholders take up all their rights.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/mai.../cnrock127.xml
You'd almost feel sorry for them....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/mai.../cnrock127.xml
You'd almost feel sorry for them....
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I was looking back to see just what it was that BA cabin crew called off their strike for, here is what they achieved.
SO that sets the benchmark then <<note this wink it means something
edited to keep the peace
British Airways cabin crew vote to accept 4.6% pay and pensions deal
18 April 2007 11:00
British Airways cabin crew voted by a 76% majority to accept a new pay deal negotiated at the end of January.
The British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association (Bassa), a branch of the Transport and General Workers Union (T&G), recommended the deal following meetings involving T&G general secretary Tony Woodley and BA chief executive Willie Walsh.
It means that 11,000 cabin crew approves an 18.75% rise in their pensionable pay figure and accepted changes to aid a £2.1bn deficit on the BA New Airlines Pension Scheme.
Key points of the deal included:
A two-year pay deal, including an above inflation 4.6% increase in the first year from 1 February
Increase in pay for pension purposes by 18.75%
New pay rates to bridge the gap between the pre- and post-1997 grades with four new incremental steps
A new joint approach to the sickness absence policy, which reflects the particular pressures on cabin crew
900-hour maximum flying time per year
The BA chief executive commits to meeting with the Bassa senior representatives on a quarterly basis
Jack Dromey, T&G deputy general secretary, said the result was good for members, BA and the travelling public. “The new era of respect for cabin crew is established and we welcome the direct involvement cabin crew representatives will now have with Willie Walsh,” he said.
18 April 2007 11:00
British Airways cabin crew voted by a 76% majority to accept a new pay deal negotiated at the end of January.
The British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association (Bassa), a branch of the Transport and General Workers Union (T&G), recommended the deal following meetings involving T&G general secretary Tony Woodley and BA chief executive Willie Walsh.
It means that 11,000 cabin crew approves an 18.75% rise in their pensionable pay figure and accepted changes to aid a £2.1bn deficit on the BA New Airlines Pension Scheme.
Key points of the deal included:
A two-year pay deal, including an above inflation 4.6% increase in the first year from 1 February
Increase in pay for pension purposes by 18.75%
New pay rates to bridge the gap between the pre- and post-1997 grades with four new incremental steps
A new joint approach to the sickness absence policy, which reflects the particular pressures on cabin crew
900-hour maximum flying time per year
The BA chief executive commits to meeting with the Bassa senior representatives on a quarterly basis
Jack Dromey, T&G deputy general secretary, said the result was good for members, BA and the travelling public. “The new era of respect for cabin crew is established and we welcome the direct involvement cabin crew representatives will now have with Willie Walsh,” he said.
<<note this wink it means somethingedited to keep the peace
Last edited by scoobydooo; 2nd Dec 2007 at 00:29.
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BA made £600 million profit last year. Virgin allegedly made...........£6 million. The BA crew also had the support of the union and followed their recommendations. I wish you the best of luck but you are a complete dreamer if you are holding out for 18%.
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Certainly not holding out for anything like that, though am looking forward to the next negotiations when Amicus and T&G will have completed their merger and the experience and might of T&G will be on board.
I feel there will be some serious changes in line for Virgin. From a company that refused to recognise the cabin crew union 6 years ago to the stepping stone of Amicus, to the might of T&G, it's going to be so refreshing. I cant wait
I feel there will be some serious changes in line for Virgin. From a company that refused to recognise the cabin crew union 6 years ago to the stepping stone of Amicus, to the might of T&G, it's going to be so refreshing. I cant wait
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BA's pay deal
Just to clarify that BA c.crew didn't get a 18% pay rise in the last strike threatened deal.
That figure relates to the % of the basic pay that was pensionable in the newer pension package. ie the amount of the basic pay that was pensionable went up by 18.75%.
The strike was threatened as the crew felt that there were several issues that were not being talked about/negotiated by the company & the list of "failure to agree" motions was growing alarmingly.
There was a historically large % of union members returning their voting papers, & over 96% voted for action.
Even with that level of solidarity, it was bloomin' scary/horrible stuff to go through, & the rumour mill about what BA would do to strikers was rife (& inaccurate). There was eventually quite a few crew who felt the final deal was still not good enough, the pension part of the deal in particular was not popular.
BA being unwilling to put money into the pension package, yet still posting fair profit figures & spending large sums of money elsewhere (eg the fuel surcharge affair. Thanks a lot, VS!!) & Branson refusing to pay VS crew any more yet put £200 mill into N.Rock is fairly similar to my eyes, unless I'm missing some detail.
Best of luck,
Matt.
That figure relates to the % of the basic pay that was pensionable in the newer pension package. ie the amount of the basic pay that was pensionable went up by 18.75%.
The strike was threatened as the crew felt that there were several issues that were not being talked about/negotiated by the company & the list of "failure to agree" motions was growing alarmingly.
There was a historically large % of union members returning their voting papers, & over 96% voted for action.
Even with that level of solidarity, it was bloomin' scary/horrible stuff to go through, & the rumour mill about what BA would do to strikers was rife (& inaccurate). There was eventually quite a few crew who felt the final deal was still not good enough, the pension part of the deal in particular was not popular.
BA being unwilling to put money into the pension package, yet still posting fair profit figures & spending large sums of money elsewhere (eg the fuel surcharge affair. Thanks a lot, VS!!) & Branson refusing to pay VS crew any more yet put £200 mill into N.Rock is fairly similar to my eyes, unless I'm missing some detail.
Best of luck,
Matt.
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scoobydoo
You see, your post just highlights the ignorance and lack of awareness of what you are all doing.
BA do not pay pension contributions on all the money you earn. VS do. Every penny of basic wage is pensionable.
That means that for every 100p you earn, Virgin put in 10p (or whatever) to your pension.
For the purposes of this simple explanation, let's assume that BOTH companies contribute 10% to a pension.
In BA, for every 100p they earn, BA put in a percentage (let's say 75%) of pensionable pay into a pension for you. So,again, let's say they put in 75% of pensionable pay into a pension at the same contribution rate that VS do, i.e. 10%:
100p x 10% (x75%) = 7.5p per 100p earned in a pension for you in BA
100p x 10% = 10p per 100p earned in a pension for you in VS.
Even if BA upped the pensionable pay by 18.75%, that is still less than you have put in your scheme, because it still does not add up to 100% of pensionable pay.
So, before you go bandying about 18% pay rises, why don't you read their paydeal properly and try and understand it before listening to bullsh1t.
Go on strike and the WHOLE company suffers. Other jobs WILL be lost and you will achieve nothing.
ACCEPT the paydeal and move on to the next set of negotiations in 18 months as a more unified and dignified group.
It's an inflation busting and very VERY fair deal in the business climate we are in currently.
Yours, a Virgin Atlantic A340 FO.
You see, your post just highlights the ignorance and lack of awareness of what you are all doing.
BA do not pay pension contributions on all the money you earn. VS do. Every penny of basic wage is pensionable.
That means that for every 100p you earn, Virgin put in 10p (or whatever) to your pension.
For the purposes of this simple explanation, let's assume that BOTH companies contribute 10% to a pension.
In BA, for every 100p they earn, BA put in a percentage (let's say 75%) of pensionable pay into a pension for you. So,again, let's say they put in 75% of pensionable pay into a pension at the same contribution rate that VS do, i.e. 10%:
100p x 10% (x75%) = 7.5p per 100p earned in a pension for you in BA
100p x 10% = 10p per 100p earned in a pension for you in VS.
Even if BA upped the pensionable pay by 18.75%, that is still less than you have put in your scheme, because it still does not add up to 100% of pensionable pay.
So, before you go bandying about 18% pay rises, why don't you read their paydeal properly and try and understand it before listening to bullsh1t.
Go on strike and the WHOLE company suffers. Other jobs WILL be lost and you will achieve nothing.
ACCEPT the paydeal and move on to the next set of negotiations in 18 months as a more unified and dignified group.
It's an inflation busting and very VERY fair deal in the business climate we are in currently.
Yours, a Virgin Atlantic A340 FO.
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stansdead
...and the other side of the coin is we would love it if not all our pay was pensionable but in return we even came close to what BA cabin crew earn in non pensionable pay allowances trip pay crew down, working up, block payments, delay payments etc etc the list is endless, if we had that I would earn more per month, the company would contribute less to my pension however I could contribute personally to my pension and reclaim the governments portion on my tax return, outcome I would get more in hand and in my pension etc etc.
The reason for the post was to highlight what can and has been "achieved" through industrial action.
As to what it will cost the company and others (maybe, allegedly in jobs), I am fully aware of that too but thanks fore refreshing me on the issue.
Why are you so agressive anyway ?
p.s. its posts like yours (insinuating I have mentioned an 18% pay rise [whish I have not], use of foul language, telling us to accept the deal [when you are on considerably more than us] and move on) that probably push people who were not sure on what to vote into the yes zone, thanks
...and the other side of the coin is we would love it if not all our pay was pensionable but in return we even came close to what BA cabin crew earn in non pensionable pay allowances trip pay crew down, working up, block payments, delay payments etc etc the list is endless, if we had that I would earn more per month, the company would contribute less to my pension however I could contribute personally to my pension and reclaim the governments portion on my tax return, outcome I would get more in hand and in my pension etc etc.
The reason for the post was to highlight what can and has been "achieved" through industrial action.
As to what it will cost the company and others (maybe, allegedly in jobs), I am fully aware of that too but thanks fore refreshing me on the issue.
Why are you so agressive anyway ?
p.s. its posts like yours (insinuating I have mentioned an 18% pay rise [whish I have not], use of foul language, telling us to accept the deal [when you are on considerably more than us] and move on) that probably push people who were not sure on what to vote into the yes zone, thanks
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scoobydoo
Don't be so silly.
If you were not insinuating an 18.75% rise, why did you write it in bold ?
You know that your post is misleading and haven't got the balls to admit you are wrong on it.
Don't be so silly.
If you were not insinuating an 18.75% rise, why did you write it in bold ?
You know that your post is misleading and haven't got the balls to admit you are wrong on it.
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Scoobydoo,
VS recently declared less than 0.5% ROS. I don't think you'll get any more money - sadly there will then be three groups that lose out: the crew, the company & the customers.
Accept the offer this year, and as you say go in to the next round of negotiations with your new and improved union in a stronger position.
VS recently declared less than 0.5% ROS. I don't think you'll get any more money - sadly there will then be three groups that lose out: the crew, the company & the customers.
Accept the offer this year, and as you say go in to the next round of negotiations with your new and improved union in a stronger position.
