Virgin - Crew Discussions II
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I have to admit that I feel scared now. I too have spoken to crew who are going to vote no to strike because they are confident that their colleagues will vote yes and they can still keep their wages.! So hello 2%!
I think we should listen to our pilots and take note. I am voting yes. I believe that if we are as dtrong as we say we are then for the first time there will be major changes in next pay talks.
AND NO I AM NOT VA MANAGEMENT.
I think we should listen to our pilots and take note. I am voting yes. I believe that if we are as dtrong as we say we are then for the first time there will be major changes in next pay talks.
AND NO I AM NOT VA MANAGEMENT.
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SITYR - I would love to have a positive outlook and agree with your comments however;
Just will not happen, next time round it will be exactly the same, it's a virgin chosen management tactic , has worked for years and will continue to do so until the chain is broken.
Show me some productive moves by the Virgin Union reps (to perhaps bet Boyd out) to get it right next time and I will change my stance - but at this point I am willing to make a wager that next pay talks will be exactly the same. It's proven that history repeats itself and the saying "if it aint broken dont fix it" stands - why change it, it's working for the management- they get us everytime and people say it will be better next time.
The pattern is the same as last time, several poor offers, then not so poor offers targeting specific roles (CSS & FSM) , everyone you will get your back pay before Christmasn and hey presto a 47/53 (or similar) vote in favour - exactly the same this time round I fear. In short we are so easy to manipulate and walk all over when it comes to pay talks.
Therefore I am unable to just give up in the hope that "ahhh next time will be better".
I agree, listen to the pilots, listen to everyone - weigh up all the information available and then make a decision. Also note whilst KO has been kind enough and taken the time to provide us with his/her insight it is the opinion of 1 person - I know other FC who say keep going.
Remember everyone, gather all the facts, analyse and decide if the current offer meets your personal objective.
As Orange would say, "it's good to talk" and that is what we must keep doing, the back pay will come, you will still be entitled to it, if it takes longer it takes longer. When the company says there will be no more talks (as we have heard before...is it 4 times now ?) it is the company that is backing us into a corner. Why oh why is it not the union calling the shots
I believe that if we are as strong as we say we are then for the first time there will be major changes in next pay talks.
Show me some productive moves by the Virgin Union reps (to perhaps bet Boyd out) to get it right next time and I will change my stance - but at this point I am willing to make a wager that next pay talks will be exactly the same. It's proven that history repeats itself and the saying "if it aint broken dont fix it" stands - why change it, it's working for the management- they get us everytime and people say it will be better next time.
The pattern is the same as last time, several poor offers, then not so poor offers targeting specific roles (CSS & FSM) , everyone you will get your back pay before Christmasn and hey presto a 47/53 (or similar) vote in favour - exactly the same this time round I fear. In short we are so easy to manipulate and walk all over when it comes to pay talks.
Therefore I am unable to just give up in the hope that "ahhh next time will be better".
I agree, listen to the pilots, listen to everyone - weigh up all the information available and then make a decision. Also note whilst KO has been kind enough and taken the time to provide us with his/her insight it is the opinion of 1 person - I know other FC who say keep going.
Remember everyone, gather all the facts, analyse and decide if the current offer meets your personal objective.
As Orange would say, "it's good to talk" and that is what we must keep doing, the back pay will come, you will still be entitled to it, if it takes longer it takes longer. When the company says there will be no more talks (as we have heard before...is it 4 times now ?) it is the company that is backing us into a corner. Why oh why is it not the union calling the shots
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But Scooby are you not scared that most crew will say NO to strike and we will end up with a piss poor pay deal?
God I wish I had your confidence in the crew and could almost guarantee that we will go all the way, but something tells me that this wont happen.
I really need the money that we are being offered (especially back pay for Xmas), so I admit that I am probably a weak link in the chain, but I also feel that the niaive crew who will vote no to strike are the weakest link!
Not sure if I have the confidence to gamble. I think it will a Yes from me to this pay deal.
God I wish I had your confidence in the crew and could almost guarantee that we will go all the way, but something tells me that this wont happen.
I really need the money that we are being offered (especially back pay for Xmas), so I admit that I am probably a weak link in the chain, but I also feel that the niaive crew who will vote no to strike are the weakest link!
Not sure if I have the confidence to gamble. I think it will a Yes from me to this pay deal.
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Me too sign-it to-your-room. I cant be relying on other crew who the majority im speaking too are relying on others. There is a decent offer on the table at the moment, yes the union have messed about, but i feel that we have stood our ground and that the company have listened. As i said earlier most crew were shocked to hear that they wont get allowances or the heathrow bus when and if on strike so what does that tell us. And i dont want to lose 4.8% as measly as it is to then get an even measlier 2% with conditions. When the flight crew got there rise there union was behind them 100% telling them vote no. Ours isnt so this could get very very nasty. Im going to vote yes.
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SITYR, I totally understand and It is your vote to do what you feel is right with it, after all it is your life that you have to finance.
The reason 's am voting no are;
1. I know the back pay will be there eventually, sure it would be nice to have it for Christmas, but a 0% credit card to March will cover Xmas and when I get the back pay I can pay off Crimbo.
2. If the offer and back pay for some reason only becomes 2% (which I whole heartedly hand on heart do not believe will happen) then the figures in the table for back pay would be factored by 42% (2/4.8) - I still get some money but I have gambled half of it on further improving my package.
3.The extra I would receive per month from the table posted 2 pages ago will probably be factored by 75% as they are based on 5 trips a month, which is 60 a year, the company is using 45 a year to calculate my back pay so it's fair to assume the same looking forward - so in accordance with that the monthly increase per role on the current offer would be ;
IFBT = £35.75, CC £29.71, SCC £34.22, CSS = £51.45, FSM £61.38.
If that falls to 2% ( which again I doubt) I am gambling half of the above to improve my package.
There are other factors too, Crew down, this has not been addressed - the union stated categorically it wanted this addressed and it has failed to address, this. Variable manning etc etc Airshare scheme - we will see nothing with it in its current format as the company continues to invest in itself we must change this as the FC did to a turnover element rather than profit.
So take all of that and then add in the factor that we are going to start being taxed on some components of our pay packet which we are not currently - in a year time will I be better off or worse off or the same if I accept this deal.....
Then I look at the momentum the union has, I am really really proud with how everyone has voted so far, we are united and I honestly think we can make a serious improvement on what is currently on offer.
Now it becomes harder for the very reasons you highlight but also because of the bias shown towards CSS FSM and 10 Year FSM's that has literally split the ranks. I'm sure the company are hoping said bias will stop the FSM's and CSS's telling people to vote No.
But from Me it's a not to this offer, a yes to strike to force the company back to the table, if I have to vote Yes to strike to do this, then that's what I will do and I will strike but the company would be foolish to let it get that far.
Big thumbs up for being honest as to why you think a yes this time
edited to add
p.s pokergirl who cares if no bus, dont have to come to work to strike can sit at home - the cause and effect is the same, as for no allowances - but we spend those on food and drink down route right so it would make no difference to us financially. The only loss would be the day off works pay we would lose, but then you have to deduct what it costs to get to work too, so maybe down a few quid after all that ? We all know it wont go that far, they would be back round the table faster than crew get to the bar downroute
The reason 's am voting no are;
1. I know the back pay will be there eventually, sure it would be nice to have it for Christmas, but a 0% credit card to March will cover Xmas and when I get the back pay I can pay off Crimbo.
2. If the offer and back pay for some reason only becomes 2% (which I whole heartedly hand on heart do not believe will happen) then the figures in the table for back pay would be factored by 42% (2/4.8) - I still get some money but I have gambled half of it on further improving my package.
3.The extra I would receive per month from the table posted 2 pages ago will probably be factored by 75% as they are based on 5 trips a month, which is 60 a year, the company is using 45 a year to calculate my back pay so it's fair to assume the same looking forward - so in accordance with that the monthly increase per role on the current offer would be ;
IFBT = £35.75, CC £29.71, SCC £34.22, CSS = £51.45, FSM £61.38.
If that falls to 2% ( which again I doubt) I am gambling half of the above to improve my package.
There are other factors too, Crew down, this has not been addressed - the union stated categorically it wanted this addressed and it has failed to address, this. Variable manning etc etc Airshare scheme - we will see nothing with it in its current format as the company continues to invest in itself we must change this as the FC did to a turnover element rather than profit.
So take all of that and then add in the factor that we are going to start being taxed on some components of our pay packet which we are not currently - in a year time will I be better off or worse off or the same if I accept this deal.....
Then I look at the momentum the union has, I am really really proud with how everyone has voted so far, we are united and I honestly think we can make a serious improvement on what is currently on offer.
Now it becomes harder for the very reasons you highlight but also because of the bias shown towards CSS FSM and 10 Year FSM's that has literally split the ranks. I'm sure the company are hoping said bias will stop the FSM's and CSS's telling people to vote No.
But from Me it's a not to this offer, a yes to strike to force the company back to the table, if I have to vote Yes to strike to do this, then that's what I will do and I will strike but the company would be foolish to let it get that far.
Big thumbs up for being honest as to why you think a yes this time
edited to add
p.s pokergirl who cares if no bus, dont have to come to work to strike can sit at home - the cause and effect is the same, as for no allowances - but we spend those on food and drink down route right so it would make no difference to us financially. The only loss would be the day off works pay we would lose, but then you have to deduct what it costs to get to work too, so maybe down a few quid after all that ? We all know it wont go that far, they would be back round the table faster than crew get to the bar downroute
Last edited by scoobydooo; 9th Oct 2007 at 11:43.
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Scooby.
Please tell me that you attended the pay talks and said your piece? Why dont you consider being a Union rep?
If all crew had your understanding and took time to see what they are actually doing then I would vote yes is a second. Sadly I dont think they do.
I just hope that you are out there spreading the word and educating as I've not spoken to anyone remotely like you. Most are clueless yet able to shout STRIKE extremely loudly.
Would be get the 2% backdated? I dont think we would, could be wrong though.
I'm not swayed as of yet, just cant seem to gain confidence in the crew. Help!
Please tell me that you attended the pay talks and said your piece? Why dont you consider being a Union rep?
If all crew had your understanding and took time to see what they are actually doing then I would vote yes is a second. Sadly I dont think they do.
I just hope that you are out there spreading the word and educating as I've not spoken to anyone remotely like you. Most are clueless yet able to shout STRIKE extremely loudly.
Would be get the 2% backdated? I dont think we would, could be wrong though.
I'm not swayed as of yet, just cant seem to gain confidence in the crew. Help!
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Scooby its great that there are crew like yourself that work the deal out to the extent that you have. Im not bothered about the bus myself, or allowances as i said earlier what we lose on strike with an increased pay deal on the table hopefully any loss would be rectified. However its just listening to the naive crew on flights that really dont seem to know what they doing, they are all gung ho on voting no but not prepared to vote yes to strike. which is what we need . otherwise hello to 2%. Unfortunatley the % of crew online stating the above is very high. AND the company know this , as another email from linda moir today states that a high percentage of crew are scared to strike. I dont want to strike but if i felt that the majority of crew were behind the notion i would whole heartedly. However this doesnt seem to be the case.
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Ok from a different angle maybe -
In every letter accompanying the offers to date there has been a risk of a strike ballot.
Two offers ago it was in the accompanying letter saying I will ballot you for strike action if this fails. Last time it was on the ballot slip in big black letters, the same message as was on the letter the time before... trying to scare people. This time, who knows what it will be, probably in huge letters on the letter and the ballot strip - maybe even a pull out poster too !!.
The point is no Ballot has been issued yet despite being told 3 times so far we are going to get one. The company will do anything and everything to prevent the ballot from going as once it's gone out ...ITS OUT - Its like the company having a loaded gunto its head and not knowing if we're going to fire or not!
So really the alternate to voting YES is not immediately going back to 2% - that's not documented anywhere I can find so I dont know where this assumption by some is coming from (rumour I guess), also it's not for an instant strike ballot as some people are assuming. (even though the letter says it is).
We would just be in exactly the same position as we have been when each and every other past offer has been rejected - Yes the ballot form could come or "oh look, more talks more offers what a surprise" . Who comes back to the table first- who knows , however rest assured it would only be sheer business suicide for the company not to engage in further talks.
However the wording on I fly from the union makes is sound like that's it no more chances, when in reality nothing has changed between now and when we said "NO" on the last 3 occasions ! Yet scare tactics are the technique being employed now.
If the union stuck to its' word this time and the the strike ballot did come without revisiting the company, it would probably be good becasue I could imagine a much improved offer coming very shortly after.
Edited by eyesnears - Today at 2:58pm
Two offers ago it was in the accompanying letter saying I will ballot you for strike action if this fails. Last time it was on the ballot slip in big black letters, the same message as was on the letter the time before... trying to scare people. This time, who knows what it will be, probably in huge letters on the letter and the ballot strip - maybe even a pull out poster too !!.
The point is no Ballot has been issued yet despite being told 3 times so far we are going to get one. The company will do anything and everything to prevent the ballot from going as once it's gone out ...ITS OUT - Its like the company having a loaded gunto its head and not knowing if we're going to fire or not!
So really the alternate to voting YES is not immediately going back to 2% - that's not documented anywhere I can find so I dont know where this assumption by some is coming from (rumour I guess), also it's not for an instant strike ballot as some people are assuming. (even though the letter says it is).
We would just be in exactly the same position as we have been when each and every other past offer has been rejected - Yes the ballot form could come or "oh look, more talks more offers what a surprise" . Who comes back to the table first- who knows , however rest assured it would only be sheer business suicide for the company not to engage in further talks.
However the wording on I fly from the union makes is sound like that's it no more chances, when in reality nothing has changed between now and when we said "NO" on the last 3 occasions ! Yet scare tactics are the technique being employed now.
If the union stuck to its' word this time and the the strike ballot did come without revisiting the company, it would probably be good becasue I could imagine a much improved offer coming very shortly after.
Edited by eyesnears - Today at 2:58pm
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Just a thought.............
Let's just say the ballot of Union Members (approximately 70% of the workforce - 30% don't care either way) results in 60% NO and 40% YES. Unite have already stated that they will not negotiate further and will immediately ballot for strike action.
Assuming that the 40% of YES voters are against strike and 11% or more of the NO voters are against strike then all credibility is lost, the current offer is withdrawn and you're back to square one.
A weak NO vote at this point would be counter-productive to both this and all future negotiations. The resulting handful of no-shows rostered on the days of proposed strike action would, I have no doubt, be dismissed for Breach of Contract and union membership numbers would diminish considerably, leaving everyone "over a barrel".
Let's just say the ballot of Union Members (approximately 70% of the workforce - 30% don't care either way) results in 60% NO and 40% YES. Unite have already stated that they will not negotiate further and will immediately ballot for strike action.
Assuming that the 40% of YES voters are against strike and 11% or more of the NO voters are against strike then all credibility is lost, the current offer is withdrawn and you're back to square one.
A weak NO vote at this point would be counter-productive to both this and all future negotiations. The resulting handful of no-shows rostered on the days of proposed strike action would, I have no doubt, be dismissed for Breach of Contract and union membership numbers would diminish considerably, leaving everyone "over a barrel".
Last edited by Shanwick Shanwick; 9th Oct 2007 at 14:48.
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AGHHHHHHH
THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY HAVE SAID and therein lies the problem - if people go around saying that then sure people are going to think about accepting this offer, what has actually been said in the offer is
.Now that has been said.... on the last 3 offers, be it on the ballot paper, or in the letter accompanying so it's nothing new
The story of no further negotiations has NOT been stated in any formal union correspondence, that the members have been received.
However the view from he roo (aka Virgin management) on I-fly states
Now note, all reference to there will be no further negotiation by Unite is coming from the management - not from the Union. Until I see it in Black and White from the Union "we will not negotiate any further" then it is nothing more than a scare tactic by the management and the ramifications of a NO vote by the crew is no different to all previous offers, the word final has been used so many times ....
Please tell me where there has been a formal communication from the union stating it will not negotiate any further ?
__________________________
Ps shanwick, I presume when you say no shows on day of proposed industrial action you mean a non formal strike - Yep, sure, you are not pitching up for work, black mark.
However official strike with voter and union backing - punishment of crews for not attending work on organised strike day is illegal. Just wanted to clarrify that incase anyone wasnt sure.
Unite have already stated that they will not negotiate further and will immediately ballot for strike action.
To conform with legal requirements, a rejection of this final consultative ballot will automatically lead to “All Unite” members being asked to participate in a formal industrial action ballot.
The story of no further negotiations has NOT been stated in any formal union correspondence, that the members have been received.
However the view from he roo (aka Virgin management) on I-fly states
As I said last week the business is now entering a critical and unsettling phase as our Cabin Crew vote on a major revision to the pay offer over the course of the next few weeks in the final consultative ballot on pay..........
.......Unfortunately we are getting the impression that many crew wrongly believe that a “no” vote will lead to another and better offer being made. This is not the case. Unite have made it quite clear that they will automatically proceed to a formal industrial action ballot if this pay award is not approved
.......Unfortunately we are getting the impression that many crew wrongly believe that a “no” vote will lead to another and better offer being made. This is not the case. Unite have made it quite clear that they will automatically proceed to a formal industrial action ballot if this pay award is not approved
Please tell me where there has been a formal communication from the union stating it will not negotiate any further ?
__________________________
Ps shanwick, I presume when you say no shows on day of proposed industrial action you mean a non formal strike - Yep, sure, you are not pitching up for work, black mark.
However official strike with voter and union backing - punishment of crews for not attending work on organised strike day is illegal. Just wanted to clarrify that incase anyone wasnt sure.
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well said scooby! I was going to post something along the same lines.
As you have said nothing more than scare tactics from LM & the Brady bunch to ensure this goes to through so that they get their bonuses.
When a company is so content on wasting so much money then I believe the crew should fight for what is right and not be fobbed off with the excuse of there being no more money in the pot! Didn't the company say that on past offers and each offer has got better? So if there is no more money in the pot, where has the money come from??? Fibs being told I feel!
No vote from me, not because I want to see the company suffer, because I know that the money is there and If we accept and on the next round of pay talks, same old excuses will come up (new aircraft, club houses etc).
Stay United guys!
As you have said nothing more than scare tactics from LM & the Brady bunch to ensure this goes to through so that they get their bonuses.
When a company is so content on wasting so much money then I believe the crew should fight for what is right and not be fobbed off with the excuse of there being no more money in the pot! Didn't the company say that on past offers and each offer has got better? So if there is no more money in the pot, where has the money come from??? Fibs being told I feel!
No vote from me, not because I want to see the company suffer, because I know that the money is there and If we accept and on the next round of pay talks, same old excuses will come up (new aircraft, club houses etc).
Stay United guys!
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Sorry shanwick meant to say also
That would be one take on it , how about another take that it would send the following message -
" we are not happy with the current offer - but we are not going to screw the airline into the ground by striking either , both parties get back round the table and hammer this out"
Assuming that the 40% of YES voters are against strike and 11% or more of the NO voters are against strike then all credibility is lost, the current offer is withdrawn and you're back to square one.
" we are not happy with the current offer - but we are not going to screw the airline into the ground by striking either , both parties get back round the table and hammer this out"
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The view of another department in the same company....
Talking to many crew - there does seem to be an opinion of "screw the company - they are not doing me any favours"
Sorry guys and gals - this is childish. Say you are right, when you strike, the company has enough money to absolve the initial problems - in the longer term passenger downturn, may cause a few restrictions, but the company sails on through, no problem. Discussions revert back to pay...
...or look at it another way, what if the company hasn't got the money?
You all strike and no planes fly - we all saw what happened after 9/11. Couple of days on the ground and lots of people are without jobs ACROSS ALL DEPARTMENTS. Say Virgin survives this, but has to lay off people to get by - this will affect everybody.
I've got a mortgage to pay, we've got guys with young families, we've got guys a few months away from having families, do you want to see these people out of work over your pay? The simple matter is there are not infinate numbers of jobs in the aviation industry - some of us may get employment immediately - others may not. I know some of you don't want to screw over the company, I'm dissappointed with the few I've spoken to who are intent on nothing but. With these I have no sympathy.
If it works out for you all - great - well done. However, please don't forget that this action does not just affect you and the passengers. Screw the company, and it will change many more peoples lives not involved with your pay....
...just think about this please.
Talking to many crew - there does seem to be an opinion of "screw the company - they are not doing me any favours"
Sorry guys and gals - this is childish. Say you are right, when you strike, the company has enough money to absolve the initial problems - in the longer term passenger downturn, may cause a few restrictions, but the company sails on through, no problem. Discussions revert back to pay...
...or look at it another way, what if the company hasn't got the money?
You all strike and no planes fly - we all saw what happened after 9/11. Couple of days on the ground and lots of people are without jobs ACROSS ALL DEPARTMENTS. Say Virgin survives this, but has to lay off people to get by - this will affect everybody.
I've got a mortgage to pay, we've got guys with young families, we've got guys a few months away from having families, do you want to see these people out of work over your pay? The simple matter is there are not infinate numbers of jobs in the aviation industry - some of us may get employment immediately - others may not. I know some of you don't want to screw over the company, I'm dissappointed with the few I've spoken to who are intent on nothing but. With these I have no sympathy.
If it works out for you all - great - well done. However, please don't forget that this action does not just affect you and the passengers. Screw the company, and it will change many more peoples lives not involved with your pay....
...just think about this please.
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Fournier Boy
Your post is fair in my book - and the threat of strike is an action not to be used likely. Your closing statement "...just think about it please" sums it all up. Just to flip it on it's side this can be directed not only at the crew but also at the ones responsible on the companies side of the table.
All most of us are looking for is a fair deal, one which addressees inflation (current one achieves this in year 1), Year 2 needs to become a fixed minimum value and crew down and airshare require addressing. I think loyalty across all ranks and a the trip pay rise % to juniors and seniors. It's not miles off what we have now. I believe a few more days of civil negotiations could achieve this and I would be happy.
Those who are thinking "screw the company" I wonder how many though that before the insulting offers came out - far less I would imagine than now - they have caused resentment.
scoooooby dooobyy doooooooo
Your post is fair in my book - and the threat of strike is an action not to be used likely. Your closing statement "...just think about it please" sums it all up. Just to flip it on it's side this can be directed not only at the crew but also at the ones responsible on the companies side of the table.
All most of us are looking for is a fair deal, one which addressees inflation (current one achieves this in year 1), Year 2 needs to become a fixed minimum value and crew down and airshare require addressing. I think loyalty across all ranks and a the trip pay rise % to juniors and seniors. It's not miles off what we have now. I believe a few more days of civil negotiations could achieve this and I would be happy.
Those who are thinking "screw the company" I wonder how many though that before the insulting offers came out - far less I would imagine than now - they have caused resentment.
scoooooby dooobyy doooooooo
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Fournier Boy - I would like to point out is that crew have mortgages to pay, along with other bills, and there are crew with young families and families on the way! At the end of the day I realise that this could affect the whole business but mortgages and bills are not just for people working in other departments!
I for one don't want to see anything happen to the company, however I do want to get paid fairly, and maybe in-line with other cabin crew for other airlines.
I for one don't want to see anything happen to the company, however I do want to get paid fairly, and maybe in-line with other cabin crew for other airlines.
Last edited by bcf&gloves; 10th Oct 2007 at 18:54. Reason: Typo
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Hi Dollies....
I have just pop in and had a chat with the management but I felt like I was hitting a brick wall.
I'm still saying NO
and please listen to Scoobydooo he knows what he is talking about..We must stay united..!
Virgin Dolly
I'm still saying NO
and please listen to Scoobydooo he knows what he is talking about..We must stay united..!Virgin Dolly
Last edited by virgin dolly; 11th Oct 2007 at 17:59.
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Hi Dollies
One had ones hair in curlers having a cup of tea and watching Channel four news....."Virgin is going to buy Northen Rock" No wonder they have been saying there is no money in the pot it's all going to buy a bank.! 
Virgin Dolly
Virgin Dolly
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Virgin dolly Are you sure they said virgin 'atlantic' are planning to buy northern rock? as the virgin group is entirely seperate from virgin atlantic, not the same company nor finances.
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I did not say Virgin Atlantic......of course its the Virgin group that could be buying northern rock. But for years all of our profits have gone into the virgin group so I want my hard earned investment back in a good pay deal..! Check out BBC news Business on line for more updates.
Virgin Dolly
Virgin Dolly
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LONDON
Age: 45
Posts: 8
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I know I am going to get a lot of abuse for what I am going to say but hey I need to say it.
The Virgin Group and Virgin Atlantic are not the same. Virgin Atlantic will pay the Virgin Group money each year to use the brand name of VIRGIN. What the Virgin Group choose to do with the money they have has nothing to do Virgin Atlantic and the pay offers.
I recently went to an Onboard Managers Meeting and feel I need to share a few things with you that we were told by both VS Management and the Union reps who were at the meeting.
We can't compare ourselves to BA we are VS not BA. Lets look at the facts.
BA used to be a State Airline. Financed by the british goverment. They have much more assets and money that VS do.
BA have been around for many years 1924 they started as Imperial Airways. Some of us at VS were not even born when BA started flying. VS have been around for 23 years not long 1984.
BA have a very loyal customer base. BA have a very safe product image.
VS has an image of young and fun which some people do not like.
BA crew have been unionised for almost 40 years. VS crew have been unionsed for 6 years. Our union can't just go in there demanding massive pay deals and things like that they need to get a good relationship going and then things go better for us.
BA have 236 Aircraft with 52 on order. They fly to 222 destinations. We have 38 Aircraft and fly to 30 destinations.
So BA and VS are not the same by far and we should not compare ourselves to them.
Ok here are some more things you may find intresting.
VS are giving VK (Virgin Nigeria) a few more months and are going to then consider pulling the plug. Yes it is costing us money and they know that.
If we strike VS will not survive if the strike goes on for more than 7 days. We will run out of cash. In other words we all loose our jobs.
If we vote no to this offer they can't offer anything else there is nothing else to offer.
If we then vote no to the strike VS can and will then come back to us with the 2% that the rest of the company was given.
They know that they made a big mistake in only budgeting for 2% for crew pay increase. They also know that they should have listened to what crew wanted months ago. What they don't understand is that recently they went and spoke to crew and what we the crew were saying we wanted they have given us now and were still not happy.
We are only making on average 2p profit per passenger.
The open skies that will come into force early 2008 will either make or break us. The next 10 years will either see VS grow or fold up.
They know they have spent money on the base and the clubhouse and A/C but we all know that we need to spend to keep up with the the rest out there. We needed to base we are going to rent parts of it out to other airlines and make money from it.
Before anyone says it. I am NOT someone from the office. I am a CSS and want a decent pay rise but we have to be realistic.. VS have now met us and we need to VOTE YES or this time next year you may not be working for VS as we won't be around. For your own sake and everyone else that works at VS VOTE YES.
They woudl like to pay us more but the simple fact is there is no money to do that. We seen results for the last 10 years and there is nothing fishy going on. Think about it. Grab what we can now and then we can all get on with the jobs we love and look forward to the many years of enjoyment of working at VS. If you don't like that idea then maybe you need to look at other airlines/jobs. We work 900 hours a year. How many hours does your average person work a year. A lot more than 900.
The Virgin Group and Virgin Atlantic are not the same. Virgin Atlantic will pay the Virgin Group money each year to use the brand name of VIRGIN. What the Virgin Group choose to do with the money they have has nothing to do Virgin Atlantic and the pay offers.
I recently went to an Onboard Managers Meeting and feel I need to share a few things with you that we were told by both VS Management and the Union reps who were at the meeting.
We can't compare ourselves to BA we are VS not BA. Lets look at the facts.
BA used to be a State Airline. Financed by the british goverment. They have much more assets and money that VS do.
BA have been around for many years 1924 they started as Imperial Airways. Some of us at VS were not even born when BA started flying. VS have been around for 23 years not long 1984.
BA have a very loyal customer base. BA have a very safe product image.
VS has an image of young and fun which some people do not like.
BA crew have been unionised for almost 40 years. VS crew have been unionsed for 6 years. Our union can't just go in there demanding massive pay deals and things like that they need to get a good relationship going and then things go better for us.
BA have 236 Aircraft with 52 on order. They fly to 222 destinations. We have 38 Aircraft and fly to 30 destinations.
So BA and VS are not the same by far and we should not compare ourselves to them.
Ok here are some more things you may find intresting.
VS are giving VK (Virgin Nigeria) a few more months and are going to then consider pulling the plug. Yes it is costing us money and they know that.
If we strike VS will not survive if the strike goes on for more than 7 days. We will run out of cash. In other words we all loose our jobs.
If we vote no to this offer they can't offer anything else there is nothing else to offer.
If we then vote no to the strike VS can and will then come back to us with the 2% that the rest of the company was given.
They know that they made a big mistake in only budgeting for 2% for crew pay increase. They also know that they should have listened to what crew wanted months ago. What they don't understand is that recently they went and spoke to crew and what we the crew were saying we wanted they have given us now and were still not happy.
We are only making on average 2p profit per passenger.
The open skies that will come into force early 2008 will either make or break us. The next 10 years will either see VS grow or fold up.
They know they have spent money on the base and the clubhouse and A/C but we all know that we need to spend to keep up with the the rest out there. We needed to base we are going to rent parts of it out to other airlines and make money from it.
Before anyone says it. I am NOT someone from the office. I am a CSS and want a decent pay rise but we have to be realistic.. VS have now met us and we need to VOTE YES or this time next year you may not be working for VS as we won't be around. For your own sake and everyone else that works at VS VOTE YES.
They woudl like to pay us more but the simple fact is there is no money to do that. We seen results for the last 10 years and there is nothing fishy going on. Think about it. Grab what we can now and then we can all get on with the jobs we love and look forward to the many years of enjoyment of working at VS. If you don't like that idea then maybe you need to look at other airlines/jobs. We work 900 hours a year. How many hours does your average person work a year. A lot more than 900.