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Virgin - Crew Discussions II

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Virgin - Crew Discussions II

Old 11th Nov 2007, 15:28
  #501 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: London
Posts: 7
And so will the rest of the company be with out taking it forward to a strike.

I understand the frustrations of the crew, doing negotiations with management isn't exactly easy (I think they think as staff we don't have a clue what we're on about) but if the union has recommended the deal, best thing is to take it, don't try and hold out for anymore.

I support the crew in fighting their corner, but it's dwindling now they've been advised by the union to accept (twice ) and they continue to keep banging on about strikes. It's almost as though a small group are only in it for a good fight with management, or don't really know what they're saying yes or no to.

Oh well..............................................
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Old 11th Nov 2007, 16:08
  #502 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: london
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Ive spoke to alot of crew who are union members and would have voted NO to the last deal but due to the postal strike did not receive their ballot forms on time. Also many crew who did vote Yes actually regretted it in the end so it will be interesting to see what happens next.
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Old 11th Nov 2007, 17:15
  #503 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Hence my comment
don't really know what they're saying yes or no to.
Pay negotiations aren't easy - but clearly as a group you've different agenda's, keep changing your minds and seem to be squabbling amongst yourselves.

Why are those ticking a yes box on a ballot paper for something they apparently feel so strongly about such as a pay deal changing their minds - or are those saying yes to accept the deal having their minds changed for them now we've reached the stage we have.

If you are happy, stick to your instincts and your own beliefs and don't be swayed by others.

Enuff said from me, I'll certainly be watching with interest to how this all pans out and wish you guys luck.
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Old 13th Nov 2007, 10:32
  #504 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Just been at the base and the atmosphere between office staff and cabin crew isnt good. Was talking to a "union" rep who said they were not able to talk to us and suggested looking up the word strike in google !!!!!! If any crew had any concerns. Where are our union? I heard down there too that when the meetings were taking place , only strambi and boyd were in the room, none of our virgin reps !!! They then came out and told virgin reps the deal and to recommend it. Its been a shambles from the start. What outside union rep is then allowed to post a message on ifly. Amicus have just contacted me finally to clarify my address after informing our reps three times that it had changed and still not recieving any voting forms. So hopefully they are ensuring that everyone recieves the ballot. For me, its the standby allocation that im not happy about. I will be onto my third standby month in december , after having not being called out for one month meaning loss of pay and allowances so therefore 5 months really is too much . As for other departments i know with hand on heart if you were in our postion i would support you all wholeheartedly.
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Old 13th Nov 2007, 14:07
  #505 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Was talking to a "union" rep who said they were not able to talk to us and suggested looking up the word strike in google
Not able to talk to us ?? Under who's instruction ?

If that is what you were directly told then I would personally be on the blower to the head of the Union (name & number available via unite website) asking if they have instructed that reps no longer speak to crew.

If they are not aware of this advise him of the individuals name and exactly what she/he told you (there is an outside chance the management/company are telling reps this which is questionable in the least).
If they are aware of it ask why this has happened and request a formal communication to members to advise this.

We pay our fees such that we can speak to and ask advice of the reps at ANY time. Get on the blower and escalate it.

Scooby
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Old 13th Nov 2007, 14:21
  #506 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 208
Just to break the ice, I did look up strike on google and it sent me to wikipedia, I had no idea there were so many types of strike

Sex strike, refraining from sex to achieve goals
Do you think this is what the rep wanted you to look up ?

Strike may refer to a refusal to work or perform, including:
  • Strike action or work strike, mass refusal by employees to perform work for a corporation or public institution
  • General strike, a strike action by a critical mass of the labour force in a city, region or country
  • Church strike, strike decided by the Christian church
  • Prison strike, a strike taking place inside a prison
  • Student strike a mass refusal of students to go to class, in protest of school issues, or in sympathy with a strike action or general strike
  • Culture strike, refusal to produce or show art
  • Hunger strike, voluntary refusal to eat as an act of protest
  • Rent strike, the withholding of rent to achieve certain goals
  • Sex strike, refraining from sex to achieve goals
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Old 13th Nov 2007, 14:34
  #507 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Union reps or union officials are not allowed, by law, to instigate or coerce employees into strike action; well any form of industrial action. It is for the membership to suggest and vote for industrial action.

I would imagine some form of meeting will be held between the union and its membership to discuss the next steps. Crawley football ground used to be a good place for a mass meeting. Maybe Bar Med would be more suitable in Crawley, or maybe somewhere a bit more exclusive Up Town?!
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Old 13th Nov 2007, 15:00
  #508 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Close to Wales
Posts: 133
Perhaps Bar Med is not the best venue when you are reasoning on whether to strike or not. Beer goggles may be okay when you looking for a partner but I would suggest you leave them at home when you are deciding your future.
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Old 13th Nov 2007, 15:33
  #509 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Midlands
Posts: 62
Well I've been reading the posts etc, and I have to say as a crew member the whole pay deal situation is now getting on my nerves!

I just want to come to work, do a job I love for a company I really enjoying working for. Yes I want to get paid a fair wage, but I don't want to see people losing their jobs and our customers going else where.

I do find it worrying when you hear crew say that they voted no but didn't really understand the offer, for god sake people act like adults and ask for clarification! I also find is sad when there are also some (a minority I would add) who are holding out for a strike without thinking.

I have to agree with what someone else said, and that is getting a strong union membership, and representation where everyone is working together for the good of the crew and the company to ensure we keep flying and growing and seeing our T&C's and pay growing with time.

Come on guys lets stop fighting and bitching amongst ourselves, and by that I include office staff, ground staff, pilots etc. Lets work together to ensure we remain a 1st class airline!
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Old 13th Nov 2007, 16:40
  #510 (permalink)  
Boofers
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Strike action & pay deal

I see that there are many comments from passengers on this thread, saying that if Virgin hosties strike they will fly with BA in future - because if Virgin strike now, they are likely to strike again..... but hang on a minute..... BA ground staff have striked before to get what they deserved, so aren't they likely to strike again too??

If we were paid what the BA hosties were paid, and had the same concessions etc as BA, I think we'd all be pretty happy. And for all those people that keep saying 'well go work for BA then'..... it's not as simple as that. Some of us have been at Virgin for a good few years and worked our way up the ladder. If all the crew that are unhappy with the pay left the airine, Virgin would end up with inexperienced crew taking flights as Manager - I don't think that's the answer. Also, if we all joined BA, we'd have to start back at the bottom as Junior crew. You can't just 'jump ship' from one airline to another and be in the same rank.

None of us wants to harm the airline, we just want what is fair - some of us regard the job as a career, have mortgages to pay, families to provide for etc and Virgin management just don't see it that way, and nor do the passengers
 
Old 13th Nov 2007, 17:10
  #511 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Close to Wales
Posts: 133
Boofers, it is not rocket science. If you were booking a holiday for you and your family or you were going away on business, would you rather risk spending the Christmas period at the airport as half of Virgin is grounded or would you rather pay the same price to fly with BA and get to your destination. Of course talk about strike action is costing the company bookings and who can blame them.
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Old 13th Nov 2007, 17:20
  #512 (permalink)  
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Exvicar, I do see your point, believe me. However, if Virgin had listened to VS crew and met us at least half way with what we wanted (and we aren't asking for a fortune), maybe we wouldn't be in this situation and you wouldn't have to worry about booking holidays with Virgin Atlantic??? It's frustrating all around....
 
Old 13th Nov 2007, 17:31
  #513 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: brighton
Posts: 5
Fully agree that crew want what is fair, have mortgages,bills to pay BUT if a strike was to go ahead there is no doubt it will be damaging to the airline and there would have to be cutbacks. That in itself could possibly result in job losses, loss of routes, loss of passengers (less revenue) so can anyone be sure that they will then still be in a position to pay their bills, mortgages etc? It's a very big risk to take....
The actions so far must've made the company realise that times are a changing and when future pay negotiations come around, that the crew are a force to be reckoned with, BUT if a strike goes ahead now, will there be money in the pot for subsequent pay deals etc...?

As for those who say they have been at Virgin for quite sometime and aren't prepared "to jump ship" as they would lose their seniority and have to start at the bottom all over again - fair comment but thats the standard in aviation (unless companies are looking for direct entries). But ask yourselves whether or not you're position at Virgin is guaranteed...? I doubt the job losses will be based on a 'last in first out' basis, but i wonder if the Performance Monitoring will be looked at....?
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Old 13th Nov 2007, 18:31
  #514 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South Warwickshire
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Exvicar, I do see your point, believe me. However, if Virgin had listened to VS crew and met us at least half way with what we wanted (and we aren't asking for a fortune),
Boofers, this seems to be the crux.
Most people I have spoken to don't really seem to know what exactly the CC wanted and that includes Cabin crew!

To help us all, what was the deal you were looking for that Vigin failed to meet you half way on???
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Old 13th Nov 2007, 21:48
  #515 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: up north
Age: 45
Posts: 38
I personally wanted them to address the crew down situation. I wanted the payment structure increased significantly. Not so we could benefit from the money but so that the company would not allow the flights to constantly go crew down. As it would cost them more money. They are spending money on extra days of training to preach consistancy, within the service and then having all crew working up . Some with little knowledge of the products therefore no consistancy. The other aspect for me personally was the standby element as i said in earlier posts. Some guarantee needs to be put in place so that income is not lost, if they have no flights for you. Especially when as crew you need to be as close to the airport as poss only to have to go back, therefore incurring several costs . The item of losing a crew member i was originally incensed with but at the end of the day the company can and most probably will re-write the service flows eventually, they dont, i believe need the unions approval necessarily to do it.
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Old 13th Nov 2007, 22:49
  #516 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 40
What deal did the crew want ?

One problem we have is that we don't actually know what the union went in asking for. Each person as an individual has an idea of what they want out of the pay deal, but was this what the union asked for. For all we know, the company have met all the demands which the union made. They may not have met the "demands" of each individual cabin crew member, but that's really never going to happen.

There have been some very eloquent posts on here over the last day or two, particularly from Kasual Observer, which make some very good points which we as cabin crew should listen to and take in to consideration. There have also been one or two people, who whilst probably having valid points, have tried to get their point across by making derogatory comments - all this does is get people's backs up and stop them listening to what is being said.
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Old 16th Nov 2007, 23:17
  #517 (permalink)  

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Join Date: Feb 2000
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Guys

If the strike should take place, then you will need pleanty of space for discussion - I'm closing this thread as it is quite long already.

Please continue here on
The Virgin Strike Thread (Merged)
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