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Emirates - Crew Discussions II

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Emirates - Crew Discussions II

Old 15th Jan 2009, 11:41
  #341 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: uae
Posts: 35
Journey through India

Just did a flight to India. I think the custo mers appreciate the extra meal choice and the added bar service prior to the meal. However, we were rushing to serve the lemon water, hot towels, toys and menus before departure!
Ace McCloud is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2009, 04:57
  #342 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: OMAL
Posts: 56
Time for Change

Well,

With Qatar Airways and Etihad pushing on full full thrust ( and big cashflow in the cave ), with Kingfisher 5 Star airline according to Skytrax, with AirArabia, Jazeera, Bahrainair, Wataniya, Indianair, etc, slowly but surely becoming great competitors, with loads going down down down on European sectors, The "Rats of the Emir" decided to focus a bit more on these unfamous but lucrative Indian sectors.

Competition is truly advantageous... Dubai's Big Boss is right on that! Time to swallow the arrogance back and hope it won't affect too much the Company and its backbone, the Crew!
But how can you decently carry on a predeparture drink service in Y class with let's say 400 pax in a 2 class config aircraft ? What's the real message behind an ever more complex onboard service ?

To me it's just powder in the eye. Once the surprise effect has gone, pax will ask for more or fly back home for half the price.

Correct me if I'm wrong but EK has become a huge, HUGE machine, with a strong network and more than decent financial backup, but this mothership is victim of its own size. I believe some guys at IFS are unable to effectively manage large entities like probably a 9 or 10k Cabin Crew Department, unable to find creative and innovative solutions to improve Service, Corporate and External relationship management, and above all, largely satisfied with a fear culture as a management style to control the troops.

Add it the total lack of vertical communication from top to base, unfair and more restrictive crew scheduling policies than years before ( not talking about manual insertion but AMAZING rosters some guys get each month because they know who they know and I know what I'm talking about and who some of them are, from both sides.... New restrictions like " oops, sorry, affecting next month's roster ! " ), salary discrimination ( you would be amazed to know how much a national GR2 makes a month ), line management becoming attendance controllers who believe that sickness is a way to measure productivity...

Add it fresh onboard seniors on a power trip who should undergo psychotechnical tests before graduating, freshly new cabin crew who absolutly don't care about the job and came here only to party or to escape their own condition, general mess at the accomodation and this kindergarden touch, and you get a pretty good picture of the hidden iceberg.

Finance was doing particulary well up to 2008 and was actively masking that, but these days are gone and the worst is ahead. One day someone will have to notice that you don't manage people as oranges to be squeezed until all the juice's out, then get xtra oranges from another continent and who cares about the turnover and its cost.
" figures are average for the industry in an expatriate environment ", let me laugh...

One day someone will have to hire more ground staff at the Ops/Crew Planning and Scheduling, because automatisms, as you can see, can't do such a good job, otherwise it wasn't needed to accustom employees to a certain higher level of flexibility in the past. I know cost control means EVERYTHING at Ek but don't provide Crew with a bid/Swap system if it's unfairly managed or doesn't work. Frustration is already high, no need to make it a new corporate value, but does someone really care ?
Finally, one day, someone will have to notice that although the UAE behaves like Europe 50 years ago regarding customer relationship, developping and implementing new services that satisfy temporarily an emerging class of customers won't retain them. Does someone know about Innovation instead of Mediocrity in the region, or is it just me that should move my ass out of there ?
Hope the pax like it for now, as you break your back running with your silver tray during taxi !

5allas, that was just my 2 cents, there's surely a way for constructive feedback, that's Rest day for me and I spend my time on PPRuNe... I certainly need a holiday

Any echo about the employee survey, or did they burry it below burj dubai?


What's up Leito ? Good to hear from you again
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Old 17th Jan 2009, 11:43
  #343 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 136
Hats off to you baob2boa, that was en exceptional report and you are a master at it, everything that you said its soo right, I also wonder how much longer will the crew put up with this unecessary changes that all they do is to stress out the crew even more and to raise the customers expectations even more as they'll expect that type of service on every route now.

I always think that "less is more" and the crew is so over worked that they will give up vey soon with all of these changes.

Anyway, I haven't done the service myself, so I can't comment on it, but it seems all unecessary, maybe if it was introduces by steps, meaning, start by the language part, then later with the change of the menu / tray, certainly there is no need to pre-dep drink and the bar service has never worked in the past, why would it work now?, poor SFS when all they usually get on those flights are 2 SUPYS and if lucky 3 1st or 2nd operational GR2s.

Enough said, keep recovering !!!
Leito is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2009, 15:30
  #344 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Naples
Age: 36
Posts: 4
Ek Rumors

Hi everybody. I am an EK CC and I heard twice from two pilots this rumor that EK is going to open a basis in FCO. Does anybody know more about this? Thank you.
primadiandare is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2009, 08:29
  #345 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: london
Posts: 4
Grrr Journey thru India ...

Well, I have Chennai tonight, so will see how that goes ... from what I have been hearing, is that most crew find, that there is not enough time to complete everything?!!! Maybe they should of just made the tickets more affordable? .... Something else that has been bothering me, is the attitude of some of the new crew... what's the point of lecturing us abt respecting each other in briefing and then once onboard, it goes out the window?! ... Also howcome they are upgrading everyone in economy?!??! ... even the ones with loads of sick days and absents?!! Oh well... nothing makes sense ....

Happy Flying
laguna23 is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2009, 10:03
  #346 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: In the Sand Pit
Posts: 72
Apparently there is a HUGE backlog of vacancies to be filled in Premium Cabins ...so everybody is getting an upgrade...also I know for a fact that FG1's who are only a month or two old are getting selected for a SFS position!!!!!!!!!!
As for the Indian sectors...i am an Indian crew and I know that the prices to India are Ridiculously HIGH.....so prices should be dropped instead of doing a 9 step service !
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Old 23rd Jan 2009, 10:26
  #347 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dubai UAE
Age: 37
Posts: 34
There are not as many new crew coming through anymore. There use to be 5 classes a week of ab initios now app there are only about 4 and not as many in each class.

This year they are starting to recruit for 380 Ab initio crew as well
Letsfly is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2009, 10:58
  #348 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Melbourne, Downunder
Age: 38
Posts: 6
Patience & Persistance paid off...

After 2 attempts up to the final interviews in last year and a half I am finally flying to Dubai on 13th March. Its been a very tough & trying period, but hang in there I would say. Anyone else from Australia, Melbourne????
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Old 27th Jan 2009, 23:25
  #349 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 34
Posts: 52
Mohit! Congratulations dude! I knew you would get it, will be good to see you over here soon

Just did the new service to AMD, flight time of 2:03, what a joke. Not only do we have to deal with all the luggage these passengers bring on board, but now we have all this extra work to do before take off. And don't even get me started on stress of service during the flight. There's just not enough time, one problem with the passenger and you've fallen behind. IFE needs resetting? Sorry, not enough time to call to get it reset.

One good thing though is that we had a cabin crew manager come to our briefing to give us an idea of what to expect during service as he observed the same flight last week and noticed we were some what over worked. So hopefully with all the feedback that they are asking for, they will at least go back to the old service for the shorter flights.

Funny thing is, basically none of the passengers realised it was a new service. Most annoying thing, handing out those lemon drinks for pre depatures and passengers requesting beer, whiskey, etc instead...ummm, no!
Juzz51 is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2009, 19:09
  #350 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 52
Guys,

On your three cabin class service 773 with economy seats from rows 15 through 50, how do you do the service? Do you have crew starting at rows 15 (working down) and 50 (working up, ie 48, 47 etc) with the second somewhere in the middle?
jacquelinee is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2009, 13:43
  #351 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: bangkok
Posts: 35
CC treatment

I agree with everything Baop2oba wrote. EK is already hitting an iceburg in terms of recruitment and retainment.

Soon most cc will come only from developing countries like S.A or the sub continent. CC from Aus, UK etc are leaving in high numbers. My CCM was telling me the average stay for Aus crew is only 10 months. CC from UK, NZ, Aus etc cant tollerate EK company culture for too long. There is already the other problem too of double standards in CC treatment. CC from the later get away with much more than say, CC from Phil and CC from UK, Aus etc seem to act as though they are precious... but then again the way EK is going they soon may be.
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Old 1st Feb 2009, 06:36
  #352 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 34
Posts: 52
I flew with a Purser who has been here for a long long time, and he put it perfectly. Back in the day they treated the crew really well, pay was good, allowance was good, everything was good, and word spread that Emirates was the airline to work for. Today, Emirates still has that good name to an extent, but the difference is they treat us like crap. We are literally just a number to them, and we are slowly becoming low paid laborers. We continue to earn less every year.

The sad thing is there is nothing we can do about it. With no unions, and the fact that if you speak out you'll get fired (someone got fired for speaking out on their blog and got caught), we have little recourse but to quit and find a better job. The worst thing is that Emirates know they can get away with this, because there's just so many people out there in the world wanting to become Cabin Crew, who will ignore all the warnings out there about this company, they just know it can't be THAT bad. Eventually Emirates will lose their good name as the company to work for in the airline industry, but there will still be people out there willing to work for them. We can only hope there won't be enough to meet their demands and they'll try to make things better for us.


Now on to the rumors! Just some things I've heard, some are pretty much confirmed, others are rumors that are probably completely untrue, you decide:
  • With NGO down to 3 times a week, it will be completed ended by March. I've been told this is mainly because with Toyota stuggling through the economic crisis they are no longer filling our premium cabins and/or cargo for this route to continue being profitable
  • With NGO gone, I heard they will be opening up NRT
  • Emirates plans on selling or leasing out most of the A380s they have on order due to problems with the a/c and/or it can't live up to the promises Airbus made about how far it can travel/fuel consumption, etc
  • Emirates plans on canceling all but 10 of the a380s they have on order for same reasons as above
  • Due to the financial crisis Emirates will soon be canceling a lot more routes that will put us under 100 destinations world wide
  • As most of you will know, reserve months for GR1s & GR2s, not a lot of people are getting called out, we simply have too many staff. One hot rumor going around is that we will be offered 2 weeks of unpaid leave. The fact that they just opened more leave slots for the month of March only adds more fuel to the rumor. I know I'll be applying for it if it happens!!
Thats all I have for now. One rumor that did come true, no more CHC!!
Juzz51 is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2009, 08:32
  #353 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: bangkok
Posts: 35
Juzz, your rumour confirmations are correct but in addition San Paulo is also being scrapped (Thank god) 17 hr flight with 24hr LO...Hello?!

In terms of the company stuff, I remain confident that things will change for some CC because:

For UK and Pacific routes they need to retain some Aus/NZ, UK cc and the cost of replacing us every 10 months cant equate to retainment of CC.

If they dont do something in terms of money they simply wont be able to attract intelligent cc from the higher wage countries and then what will happen to the international CC marketing? Imagine the PA: "Our international cabin crew (From all the developing countries of the world) speak many languages (excluding native English as they have all left) for your convenience..."
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Old 1st Feb 2009, 10:06
  #354 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: anywhere
Posts: 597
Yes, that's correct.

The average stay of Australians: 10 months. They have the highest turnover rate and the highest number of sick days.

Yes, they are the MOST demotivated crew - I think you stated it as a fact. Therefor it's quite hard to work with some of them because of their arrogance and laziness and "don't give a sh-t"-attitude.

I think Emirates treats the crew too good: we still have too many peple from the UK, Australia and NZ.

Last edited by Mari; 1st Feb 2009 at 12:17.
Mari is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2009, 10:31
  #355 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: anywhere
Posts: 597
good old times

Yes, good old times... You could drive through Dubai in 15 minutes and everything was soooo cheap!!!

Yes, and the story-teller Purser was young and there was nothing but sand in Dubai!

Please, don't be so naive and believe everything! If you want to have smaller traffic and a village touch, go to Abu Dhabi and work for Etihad! It's a much smaller company, everybody knows everybody! If you KNOW the right people, you will have excellent rosters and (you're Australian, right?) become a Manager very soon. (I most likely won't have the opportunity, bad luck.)

Sorry, you wouldn't be satisfied with the money: inflation is high there, as well. Basic salary for ab-anitio is 2700 dhs, hourly credit is 40 dhs.

I'm really touched that there are unions in Europe. It's sooo much better for them!

My friend works for Lufthansa as a long-haul flight attendant (Americas), based in Münich. We met last year and he told me: 1100 euro in hand. And you have to pay rent and gas and electricity and transportation. They are on strike right now! My friend joined Ryanair 4 months ago (based in Liverpool). She said that her salary only went over 1000 pounds in the 4th month.

Most of you, guys, are spoiled. You don't have any idea... I can see that you are 22-23. Did you have any working experience before EK? Is Emirates really so much worse than the previous companies you worked for?!

Yes, Management (most of them are from where? Oh, yes, Australians and British) should treat crew better. And yes, you are a number: out of 12,000 crew! Do you expect a phone call from Tim Clark?! How do YOU treat other people???? Do you know the names of your security gurads?! Do you always say "hello and thank you" to the bus driver?! Do you always say hello to your fellow crew members in the crew bus?! If you don't, most likely you would also treat the crew sh-t if you were part of the management. Sorry, that's my opinion.

And one more thing: I am NOT a native English speaker. I learnt English and German at school and worked in the USA and Germany. HOW MANY FOREIGN LANGUAGES DO YOU SPEAK???

ONE native speaker is more than enough on a Sydney-flight, we don't need 6. We will try to improve our language skills, communicational skills and learn more about service. That's all we can do if our wonderful, hard working Australians and Brits are leaving us. By the way: which British crew would be so stupid to resign now, in the middle of the biggest economic crisis that affects the UK the most???

Last edited by Mari; 1st Feb 2009 at 12:16.
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Old 1st Feb 2009, 10:44
  #356 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: anywhere
Posts: 597
gossips

All gossips seem to be true, yes.

In addition: no bonus and no pay-rise this year.

I hope that 2010-11 will be better for all of us.

Nobody has the right to complain here but me: I'm on the 380 from the beginning and I went through hell. They cancelled my upgrade in June and I did not get it since. My badgemates are in the SFS pool with hundreds of sick days. (I'm absolutely sure that nobody looks at the attendance and/or performance records.) And I'm hearing that Emirates wants to get rid of these aircrafts?! No way... all the training, the horrible flights, being observed by SFPs and managers all the time... all for nothing!

And no: off days don't compensate the cancelled upgrade. Anyways, we have RSV days in all rosters (3 off, 3 RSV, 3 off), so you cannot go home. Swapping is almost impossible (because of RSVs and legality) and Bidding simply doesn't work.

Hmm, I will resign! Oooops, the only problem is that I would make 6 times less money at home IF I found a job. Going home is simply NOT an option.

Guys, you don't have any reason to feel bad! Go to the beach and enjoy the sunshine!
Mari is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2009, 13:36
  #357 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: In the Sand Pit
Posts: 72
Well said Mari....everybody has a choice...you either Work HERE or GO HOME!!!!! It's not rocket science to figure that one out.
777w is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2009, 15:02
  #358 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: OMAL
Posts: 56
Mmmm,

From my side, I'm not 22 or 23, I'm not a native english speaker, but I have a degree, and more than 6 years experience in different countries including western europe.

We all came to the UAE for different reasons, mine was certainly not to get a better quality of life, nor sunburning like a lizard on a stone at the beach.

I don't believe Australians are so lazy, or more lazy than any other nationality. I've known amazing Ozzies and Kiwies onboard, and regarding arrogance and negative attitude, they are not worse than ex USSR nationals.
Actually they are how they are and nothing more. Native english speakers seem to behave strangely sometimes and that's mainly because they assume that we all speak english like they do. Most of them didn't learn any foreign language, it doesn't help opening the mind.
Are you soon planning to tell us more about x staying more than y in the lavatory, or is it that A380 touch spreading from your words?
It's ok, no need to treat some of us, although we only fly B777s and smaller Airbus.

Cultural and language borders are a HUGE challenge for the company...

For the village touch and smaller company in the vicinity, I would choose Al Ain and a charter airline.
Abu Dhabi's development plan for the next 20 years will make Dubai look like a hut, and regarding Etihad, it's a company with more than 255 aircrafts ordered and a pimp cashflow supported by the biggest sovereign wealth fund on earth, that make me feel more careful, particulary since Abu Dhabi's started """supporting""" ( meaning absorbing ) the Emirates Group and other Dubai companies.
Remember that the EK Group's ownership was transfered in only a day, last 31st of December, from the Dubai's Gov. to a sub holding where Abu Dhabi nibbles share after share ?

Ok, our management is anglo-saxon and mainly from the UK. True they have an easier way to deal and interact with same nationals, and we all have with our compatriots, don't you ? The UAE is an ex UK Protectorate and among the 100.000 Brits living in the country, more than 90.000 reside in Dubai, but still it doesn't explain why sickness would account in productivity calculation, it's an economic non-sense.

Me, Myself and I, we don't expect any phone call from TC, TD or KG, however one from our CCM would be nice sometimes, but we have heard that they now prefer to call regarding sick days, maybe are we wrong ?

Now Rumors, I don't know about them, but I'm sure the " better than ever " relaunched Rumor Buster would help, but, no? Don't tell me it disappeared again !?
Bonus & Payrise, no idea at all.
3% last year on the basic, while the FDP increased as you now report earlier for your flight.
5% on flying hours, with a lovely 10 to 20% inflation in the country... ( Gov says less than 10, banks say closer to 20. I look at my daily expenses and wonder if it's not 50% over some goods ).
Anyway, we have been loosing money over the years, not even talking about the EPR, so what to expect for next year? No big deal Sister, only the first slap is astonishing.

Then, sorry if you're on the A380 and all of that good work and reporting is not rewarded, but that wouldn't be the first time here.

Some say " Accept it or Leave it " ?

Ah, well... They are such a figure in the company... I guess they would act the same during the war...
Why trying to change and improve things for better? Let's follow the masses and get numbed like sheeps, after all, the majority is always right !

Pathetic.
baob2oba is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2009, 22:43
  #359 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 34
Posts: 52
Sorry if you took my post the wrong way Mari, I obviously should've also mentioned that I am HAPPY working for Emirates and there are a lot of good points, but it's easier to point out the bad. And there's nothing crew love more than to complain.

I'm sorry that you feel as though you've been passed over for promotion because you are not from Australia or the UK. It's sad to see that you have a pre-conceived notion that all English speaking crew are lazy, I imagine that working with you would be a nightmare when you already hate us all.

Try not to pull the wool over your own eyes though, yes our conditions are pretty good compared to others, however we are only learning less and less each year. The standard 3% increase in salary each year doesn't come close to matching the rate of inflation. Emirates realise that they can pay us less and less without and real repercussions, and all we can do is sit back and take it. I'm sorry, but where I come from, these type of things are NEGOITABLE, but here, should we dare to speak up, we'll be forced to resign most likely. Yes I knew all this before coming to the Middle East, but still, it's annoying, and I choose to complain about that.

Also for your information, yes I had work experience before coming to Emirates, 7 years worth, and I also speak 3 languages.

Please don't assume I don't treat others with respect, I do. Yes I know the security guards in my building, the bus drivers on my route, the guys at the local supermarket etc...No I don't expect a call from Tim Clarke, but being treated like a number, and being watched everywhere we go is a bit annoying. I mean really, why do we need to swipe our ID cards to get to any part of the new HQ, why do they need to know where we're going, at what time, etc?

Anyway, EK is still a great company to work for, but for how much longer? It should be a lot better.
Juzz51 is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2009, 00:25
  #360 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: bangkok
Posts: 35
Native speaker CC

Mari, i don't mean to be personal but you seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder. Your comments about UK, Aussie crew aside from being generalisations border on being racist. You say you love EK so much, so isn't the international mix of cabin crew including native speakers from the forementioned a good thing?

Aussies, Kiwis, Brits are all good to work with if you try to understand their back ground. For example, in the case of Aussies they have it so good back in their country which is why they seem to complain a lot here. The unemployment pay they get from the government when they don't have a job is equal to our base salary! So you cant expect them to take the work too seriously. So why don't they just all go home? Many are here because they just want to travel for a year or because when they came they thought they would make more money. Their aspirations are not going to be the same as yours, which is fair enough. When EK recruit in NZ for example they wont say how much you will earn as when you convert to local salary rates its a joke. That said, after you resign from a job and take the trouble of coming over here you cant just run back to your country.

Basically the difference between native speaker cc and other cc is that for them they are mainly here for an experience, travel a bit, party and then go home. For other CC, this is a career, a job better than what they could get back in their home country, good money and even a better standard of living. You need to remember that when you work with Aussie cc etc, most of them have come from something much better than compared to what you have come from.

The reality is that most EK cc from Africa, middle east, Asia wouldn't be able to enter UK, Aus, Can even on tourist visas so they are fortunate to get the chance to travel to these countries.

Another rumour I have heard is that EK is scrapping the FX protection and base salary will instead be adjusted depending on what country you are from. Therefore cc from Aus, UK and some EU countries are likely to end up earning much more.
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