British Airways - Crew Discussions II
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Is your daughter on the temporary WW LHR contract? If so, the jury is still out on whether they will be offered permanent contracts. The story seems to change all the time. Word is that LGW are not keen to take on ex-LHR crew as this has not always worked in the past. However I personally believe that this recruitment drive has been handled differently. No one should be under any illusion that they will be kept on at WW LHR but there is hope to be kept on at LGW. If anyone is offered LGW there shouldn't be any bitterness this time around. There are also rumours of another campaign for EF LHR next year, so hopefully she will be offered this. Until the company can confirm one way or the other, the official word will be "11 months only".
In my posts I was careful to stress that it is maturity that is lacking, not necessarily age. I was also very young when I started flying (before my BA days) but I knew how to behave. Perhaps it was because my youth was an exception, I was surrounded by older people. Get a bunch on 19 year olds, put them in a hotel for 10 days and you are going to have behaviour problems with one or two that will affect training.
Oh and you're right, jeans were not allowed in my day. I don't think they are allowed even now but there you go.
In my posts I was careful to stress that it is maturity that is lacking, not necessarily age. I was also very young when I started flying (before my BA days) but I knew how to behave. Perhaps it was because my youth was an exception, I was surrounded by older people. Get a bunch on 19 year olds, put them in a hotel for 10 days and you are going to have behaviour problems with one or two that will affect training.
Oh and you're right, jeans were not allowed in my day. I don't think they are allowed even now but there you go.
Last edited by VS-LHRCSA; 2nd Dec 2007 at 10:38.
I think
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Vs-lhrcsa
Hey guys and gals
I'm intrigued - just what exactly to you do VS-LHRCSA? Every company link I go on whether Siverjet,BA,VS etc you're there with some sort of advice to give over. I'm just bewildered to know what it is exactly you do and for who? You offer advice to newies whether it be BA (and accurately I might add) VS or whoever. I'm just intrugued by you that's all.
Enjoy peeps. x
I'm intrigued - just what exactly to you do VS-LHRCSA? Every company link I go on whether Siverjet,BA,VS etc you're there with some sort of advice to give over. I'm just bewildered to know what it is exactly you do and for who? You offer advice to newies whether it be BA (and accurately I might add) VS or whoever. I'm just intrugued by you that's all.
Enjoy peeps. x
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VS-LHRCSA I agree with you on the maturity vs age argument.
I started flying at 22 and was perfectly capable of looking after myself, the passengers and the various emergencies I had in my first year. On the other hand, when I trained for BA, there were some people much, much older than me in the course. While myself and a small group where studying and practising evacuation procedures and fighting fires with the hotel room bathroom door, some others (all the older ones in fact) were more than happy to just drink away all night in the pub opposite the hotel.
To add insult to injury, the evening before our last SEP day they all got really drunk and the senior member of the group even managed to throw up during the CRM course the following morning.
Very professional indeed!! However we all passed the course with the exception of one person, as somehow the senior people's wisdom eventually kicked in (or the enthusiasm started to fade...it depends on points of view!)
As for jeans, they are not allowed on the course so I do not know who said it is ok to wear them as it is not. Although for the day that you're rostered swimming test/slides/fire you are allowed to wear some sort of tracksuit trousers. The trainers' words are in fact "comfortable clothing" as for health&safety rules you have to wear non-restrictive clothing. How that is interpreted on a daily basis, I do not know.
What really annoys the whole community at LGW is that those cabin crew that are still sticking to their jobs for whatever reason have been working so hard during the last 12 months that have hit the 900 flying hours limit and now are compelled to do "ground duties" (long story, it doesn't mean they're working on the ground, it's more like a kind of weird stand-by). So we lack cabin crew and those who are able to fly cannot because they've been worked so hard for the last year!!!!!!
T&C and money are a huge factor why people leave so soon, and so used to be the rosters. Someone allegedly reported that new entrants' rosters are "hand picked" to give them the impression that it's all lovely at LGW and postpone their leaving day for a while!!!!!! Whether this is true or not, nobody knows, but it is true that new entrants' do not have the workload that would be expected in this time of crisis!!!
Another factor that is repeating itself, which I previously experienced while flying for a UK charter airline, is that the job of cabin crew is still perceived as glamorous and the life style like the tv series "mile-high" (which should be banned!!!) with lots of fun, booze, sex, money, jetsetting around the world....so lots of people who had been working in clean environments like high street retail shops etc think they can make their lives exciting working as little as possible, while the reality is completely the opposite!!!
Fun? wake up calls at 3am are rarely fun. Booze? Maybe in your days off, as most short haul nightstops have a minimum rest of 11hrs and depending on where you fly rules can be very restrictive on alcohol consuption.
Sex? Even if there were the chance, most crew are simply too shattered to even think about that.
Money?hahahaha!! Not at LGW!!!
Jetsetting around the world? Around the world's most famous chains of hotels maybe. By the time you have rested and had something to eat it's time to fly back!! 7 day lonh-haul trips are an exception at LGW and some of the longer ones still have shuttles in between.
These are major factors in my opinion. The crew who have been working for long and are not leaving despite all of that (including myself) are usually doing the job for other various reasons that definitely exclude the need of paying the rent and bills, but those young new people who start their working lives with BA or move from retail and similar jobs soon realize that they can easily earn twice as much working half as much and do not think about it twice before they fly the nest.
Aaahhh I had to get that out of my chest, I feel better now
FBW
I started flying at 22 and was perfectly capable of looking after myself, the passengers and the various emergencies I had in my first year. On the other hand, when I trained for BA, there were some people much, much older than me in the course. While myself and a small group where studying and practising evacuation procedures and fighting fires with the hotel room bathroom door, some others (all the older ones in fact) were more than happy to just drink away all night in the pub opposite the hotel.
To add insult to injury, the evening before our last SEP day they all got really drunk and the senior member of the group even managed to throw up during the CRM course the following morning.
Very professional indeed!! However we all passed the course with the exception of one person, as somehow the senior people's wisdom eventually kicked in (or the enthusiasm started to fade...it depends on points of view!)
As for jeans, they are not allowed on the course so I do not know who said it is ok to wear them as it is not. Although for the day that you're rostered swimming test/slides/fire you are allowed to wear some sort of tracksuit trousers. The trainers' words are in fact "comfortable clothing" as for health&safety rules you have to wear non-restrictive clothing. How that is interpreted on a daily basis, I do not know.
What really annoys the whole community at LGW is that those cabin crew that are still sticking to their jobs for whatever reason have been working so hard during the last 12 months that have hit the 900 flying hours limit and now are compelled to do "ground duties" (long story, it doesn't mean they're working on the ground, it's more like a kind of weird stand-by). So we lack cabin crew and those who are able to fly cannot because they've been worked so hard for the last year!!!!!!
T&C and money are a huge factor why people leave so soon, and so used to be the rosters. Someone allegedly reported that new entrants' rosters are "hand picked" to give them the impression that it's all lovely at LGW and postpone their leaving day for a while!!!!!! Whether this is true or not, nobody knows, but it is true that new entrants' do not have the workload that would be expected in this time of crisis!!!
Another factor that is repeating itself, which I previously experienced while flying for a UK charter airline, is that the job of cabin crew is still perceived as glamorous and the life style like the tv series "mile-high" (which should be banned!!!) with lots of fun, booze, sex, money, jetsetting around the world....so lots of people who had been working in clean environments like high street retail shops etc think they can make their lives exciting working as little as possible, while the reality is completely the opposite!!!
Fun? wake up calls at 3am are rarely fun. Booze? Maybe in your days off, as most short haul nightstops have a minimum rest of 11hrs and depending on where you fly rules can be very restrictive on alcohol consuption.
Sex? Even if there were the chance, most crew are simply too shattered to even think about that.
Money?hahahaha!! Not at LGW!!!
Jetsetting around the world? Around the world's most famous chains of hotels maybe. By the time you have rested and had something to eat it's time to fly back!! 7 day lonh-haul trips are an exception at LGW and some of the longer ones still have shuttles in between.
These are major factors in my opinion. The crew who have been working for long and are not leaving despite all of that (including myself) are usually doing the job for other various reasons that definitely exclude the need of paying the rent and bills, but those young new people who start their working lives with BA or move from retail and similar jobs soon realize that they can easily earn twice as much working half as much and do not think about it twice before they fly the nest.
Aaahhh I had to get that out of my chest, I feel better now
FBW
Last edited by flybywire; 2nd Dec 2007 at 12:31.
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I totally agree with what flybywire has said also another problem is the comparisons with WW LHR, i know different base, different T&c's but crew cannot help themseleves comparing with LHR crew who work for the same company, in the same uniform, on the same aircraft doing the same job but with more crew, more money and more days off.
To many crew you can see how this is the cause of some irriatation that we all work for the same company yet at LGW we are treated totally differently and as many crew see it unfairly.
As had been mentioned in previous posts is has been hard for crew who have been temp at LHR to then be sent to Gatwick earning less money.
To many crew you can see how this is the cause of some irriatation that we all work for the same company yet at LGW we are treated totally differently and as many crew see it unfairly.
As had been mentioned in previous posts is has been hard for crew who have been temp at LHR to then be sent to Gatwick earning less money.
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Yes it's hard for temp LHR crew to be sent to LGW on less money but it would be even more unfair for them to be kept on permanently at lhr when crew at lgw have been in the company for years, on the waiting lists for long-haul and eurofleet for years. In my opinion the crew waiting at lgw should be put first.
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Why would it be unfair to keep them on permanent contracts (EF LHR) after they have finished their temporary contract? I can't really see any difference between EF. Sure, there are crew at LGW who are on waiting list for LHR, but isn't it also unfair then that BA is recruiting straight into EF LHR, when they could take crew from LGW?
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LHR EF to cover Gatwick Naples service
The madness continues......BA announced on Friday night that Heathrow crew from Eurofleet would be used from 3rd of December to cover Gatwick flights to Naples.
Crew will report at Compass, be coached to Jubilee House and have Hotel Accomadation for early starts and late finish flights.
Crew will report at Compass, be coached to Jubilee House and have Hotel Accomadation for early starts and late finish flights.
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Well, if it's okay for WW LGW to crew LHR flights, then why not?
The amount of times I sat on the M25 to operate a LOS, JED or RUH (never got called for anything decent) is not funny. More often than not, it was working up, too.
I guess if it stops flights being cancelled then it's operations doing their best with the available resources.
The amount of times I sat on the M25 to operate a LOS, JED or RUH (never got called for anything decent) is not funny. More often than not, it was working up, too.
I guess if it stops flights being cancelled then it's operations doing their best with the available resources.
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VS-, it will be EF LHR crew and an A319, and it hasn't been defined just yet.
However it is NOT ok as that move will cost us an awful lot of money, which could have been spent recruiting more crew and giving SFG a decent contract!!!!!!!!!!!! What's the point in saving if then you waste like this?!?!?
However it is NOT ok as that move will cost us an awful lot of money, which could have been spent recruiting more crew and giving SFG a decent contract!!!!!!!!!!!! What's the point in saving if then you waste like this?!?!?
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Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the situation. I am defending the poor ops staff who have flights to crew and no crew to do it with. They have to make do with what you have. Believe me, I know what a waste of money it is.
If it was the other way around, LGW wouldn't get hotac that's for sure. We never did. Occaisionally we would get some LHR crew down to operate MCO on the old two-class. They would get a hotel before and after and all the allowances that go with it.
If it was the other way around, LGW wouldn't get hotac that's for sure. We never did. Occaisionally we would get some LHR crew down to operate MCO on the old two-class. They would get a hotel before and after and all the allowances that go with it.
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No to LHR crews operating out of LGW. Whats to stop LGW crews coming to LHR and operating routes like SIN/HKG/SYD/NRT.
Errr, because they are not checked out on the 747 for a start?
Errr, because they are not checked out on the 747 for a start?
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SIN/ SYD is already operated on a 777 and there is nothing to stop HKG and NRT and CPT and indeed any flight being operated on a 777. So whats your point ZILLI ?. the 777 has similar range to 747. But is in fact cheaper to run and even cheaper with LGW cabin crew .
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First of all, we can't operate LHR flights because Bassa at LHR put the nail in the coffin when pretending to do our Memorandum of Agreement. Therefore we can't operate longer duty days than 12.5 hours (planned). Thanks for that one, bassa!
I've found that most of the crew who've left over the last year have been ex-temps from LHR, and a lot of them felt hard done by because they had to come to LGW. As far as I'm concerned, I had no sympathy with these people, as they knew it was a temporary contract and IF they were offered permanent that it would be LGW. If I got a job with a temporary contract I would certainly save up as much money as I could, just in case. Also, I wouldn't go out and buy a new car, flat, designer clothes etc.
Rightly, some of the people here have stated the reasons for crew shortage. The main issue at the moment is the 900 hrs rule, which (as we pointed out to the company last year) is due to only 2 days off after a long haul flight and long double duty days.
I do find though, that even though our life at LGW isn't perfect by any means - far from it- it is better than a lot of jobs out there in the "real" world. I don't agree with the vast difference in t&c's and pay between the two LON airports, but apart from joining a union and telling them what you want changed when the MOA is re-written (scheduled v soon) nothing will change. You may not get your wish granted, but unless the unions know what people want changed, then they can't fight for us.
I know a lot of crew are either knackered or working 2 jobs. May I also add that a lot of crew go shopping on every trip they do state side, but claim to have no money for food? Don't get me wrong, I know we don't earn very much compared to a lot of airlines/other jobs, but it is still possible to live a life, one just have to budget for it, so no living champagne lifestyle with lemonade money.
I still love my job (most of the time), but some crew can really make the job difficult. Lack of work ethic, sour faces, a can't-be-bothered attitude and general lack of maturity makes for difficult trips. I want to be able to do the job and do it well, to keep our pax coming back. I want to have fun whilst working and I love smiling and laughing (who doesn't?). It's incredibly frustrating the amount of feedback I've had to give to crew due to their attitude. Hopefully this will all change soon, and I look forward to the new recruits coming on line.
If you have a course scheduled for LGW, we will welcome you with open arms. You will have fun, meet some great people and work hard. We do play hard too, if that's your thing. Just don't buy that penthouse in Chelsea or the Porche just yet. If you have previous flying experience there is great opportunity for promotion fairly quickly (just make sure you're ready for it).
Sorry for the rant, I just had to get it off my chest.
Wishing everyone a merry xmas, a happy new year and may all your dreams come true.
Gg
I've found that most of the crew who've left over the last year have been ex-temps from LHR, and a lot of them felt hard done by because they had to come to LGW. As far as I'm concerned, I had no sympathy with these people, as they knew it was a temporary contract and IF they were offered permanent that it would be LGW. If I got a job with a temporary contract I would certainly save up as much money as I could, just in case. Also, I wouldn't go out and buy a new car, flat, designer clothes etc.
Rightly, some of the people here have stated the reasons for crew shortage. The main issue at the moment is the 900 hrs rule, which (as we pointed out to the company last year) is due to only 2 days off after a long haul flight and long double duty days.
I do find though, that even though our life at LGW isn't perfect by any means - far from it- it is better than a lot of jobs out there in the "real" world. I don't agree with the vast difference in t&c's and pay between the two LON airports, but apart from joining a union and telling them what you want changed when the MOA is re-written (scheduled v soon) nothing will change. You may not get your wish granted, but unless the unions know what people want changed, then they can't fight for us.
I know a lot of crew are either knackered or working 2 jobs. May I also add that a lot of crew go shopping on every trip they do state side, but claim to have no money for food? Don't get me wrong, I know we don't earn very much compared to a lot of airlines/other jobs, but it is still possible to live a life, one just have to budget for it, so no living champagne lifestyle with lemonade money.
I still love my job (most of the time), but some crew can really make the job difficult. Lack of work ethic, sour faces, a can't-be-bothered attitude and general lack of maturity makes for difficult trips. I want to be able to do the job and do it well, to keep our pax coming back. I want to have fun whilst working and I love smiling and laughing (who doesn't?). It's incredibly frustrating the amount of feedback I've had to give to crew due to their attitude. Hopefully this will all change soon, and I look forward to the new recruits coming on line.
If you have a course scheduled for LGW, we will welcome you with open arms. You will have fun, meet some great people and work hard. We do play hard too, if that's your thing. Just don't buy that penthouse in Chelsea or the Porche just yet. If you have previous flying experience there is great opportunity for promotion fairly quickly (just make sure you're ready for it).
Sorry for the rant, I just had to get it off my chest.
Wishing everyone a merry xmas, a happy new year and may all your dreams come true.
Gg
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dont you? you get what you pay for.....best pay attracts the best and you can afford to employ the best:-) When you pay peanuts though...you dont have the luxury to be very picky and even if you manage to attract some good people working for you then you cannot retain them! .... unfortunately BA has decided to follow some other companies in choosing to employ people for a short time and then keep recruiting all year round in order to reduce cost!....its not the solution though and the situation at LGW is the perfect example!!!!