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Virgin Blue EBA II (Poll)

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View Poll Results: Virgin Blue Crew - Did You vote to accept (Yes) or decline (No) the EBA
YES
16
28.07%
NO
41
71.93%
Voters: 57. This poll is closed

Virgin Blue EBA II (Poll)

Old 6th Apr 2007, 18:28
  #81 (permalink)  

You Think, Therefore I Am
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No - edit your own posts before posting (and that goes for all of you) - mods have better things to do - edit them to avoid personal attacks, petty vendettas, abuse and pointless profanity: Edit them for relevancy and readability while you're at it.

With 4 posts deleted and 1 user banned, this thread is headed down the tubes rapidly - suggest that you all clean up your acts, or the thread will be closed.
TightSlot is offline  
Old 6th Apr 2007, 19:26
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Understood tightslot
Brettslave is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2007, 01:48
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Brettslave, friend,

I have taken in your analogy and would like to support your argument but at this stage I only understand one of your reasonings:

Substandard Accommodation-thereís an Accommodation Standard listed in your EBA, the cockroach problem could be fought if you all complain to your union (youíll probably need more than 1 person to complain but thereís possibly 991 others who would help)

Overnight Allowance-$40 per overnight in 2000 and now governed by ATO rulings to around $90 (where is the miscalculation? or why does it not cover expenses?)

Level 2 wages-increased from $35987(2000) to $46438(8 years on) and on top of this you add bonuses and overtime (based on the ABS model you put forward), $740 yearly productivity payment, approx $1000 rest break payments, approx $5000 for additional hours above your salary, approx $10000 in overnight allowances tax free less costs(say half)=$58178. Is this close to the income total for level 2? Youíd need to get the March 2008 ABS figures to compare or recalculate and compare the ABS model against your 2005/06 income.

Crew meals-canít find any reference to them in your first agreement or the second or third. Is there another agreement about these somewhere?

1 less crew member-CASA's exemption and they only care about the evacuation ratio. Did CASA include your unionís input? Would you all be prepared to support your union and lobby CASA? Pilots could help you lobby because if FAís are exhausted then pilots are not ably assisted during an evacuation. Have other pilots offered to help you build your case? The union from their website is working to improve your service workload.

Extra sector-in 2000 your rostering limit was 9 hours and 30 minutes and this increased by 15 minutes in 2003 for domestic single duties (on my enquiry for you this limit didnít apply to long haul duty limits). The new EBA increases the rostering limit to 12 hours (which could cover some long haul duty limits) and in some circumstances reduces it below 9 hours 45 minutes.

When you wake up under the new EBA, youíll have had an extra 1 or 2 hours sleep, so I canít see the reduction.

Perhaps list from 1 to 10 what has reduced over the last 8 years. Maybe start with $ amounts and then list all the conditions which have been chipped away. If ATO rulings arenít high enough, then you'll more than likely need to state exactly why FAís at Virgin Blue need a higher amount than ATO rulings than other Australian workers.
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Old 7th Apr 2007, 02:37
  #84 (permalink)  
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Ol Shep...give it a rest ......the EBA was voted down by nearly 90%.

This means that there must have been something fundamentally wrong with the proposal or the result would be have been different.

The result means that the proposed EBA was rejected and now a new one has to be considered.
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Old 7th Apr 2007, 06:34
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Brettslave was talking about how wages and conditions have worsened. If you want a better deal than the one that was rejected, then you'll need to lay out on the table accurate reasonings. The ABS model is good, build from there.

Maybe Tightslot could start a new thread, EBA II (reconstruct)?

Last edited by Ol Shep; 7th Apr 2007 at 06:49.
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Old 7th Apr 2007, 06:43
  #86 (permalink)  
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Ol Shep,

Obviously the majority of crew felt the same as brettslave because they voted NO .
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Old 7th Apr 2007, 06:58
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, lowerlobe, no one is arguing against you or Brettslave. Time to construct a new EBA.
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Old 7th Apr 2007, 07:42
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ol Shep
new EBA increases the rostering limit to 12 hours (which could cover some long haul duty limits)
Incorrect. If you had read the EBA you would know that it specifically relates to B737 and EMB operations only.
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Old 7th Apr 2007, 22:16
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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O'l shep, I think you may have misunderstood my analogy. It was not litteral, I was only trying to illustrate a decline in FA conditions over the last 10 years. You cannot include overnight allowances in your wage, as you are meant to spend this on your overnights. Overnight allowances are compensation for having to live out of a suitcase. That is why it is not taxed. So therefore we are getting less than the average wage.

Anyway I think everyone has realised we won't get anywhere arguing about petty items. We collectively were not happy with this EBA, let's collectively fight for what we believe we deserve. I hope the FAAA will help us achieve the best we possibly can. A 98% no vote give them some negotiating power at least. It's time for them to show us what they can do.

Inflation is 3.4% and forecast to rise by many analysts, if we don't get at least 4% pay rise before tax we are going backwards and the company is getting cheaper labour from us each year.

Stand firm Team.
Brettslave is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2007, 10:14
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Over to you

ABS refer to cash earnings so need to add all other income on top of wages to get an accurate comparison.

737 & EMB can and will no doubt fly international/long haul routes as stated in press releases and as per the scope of your current EBA.

Allowances and conditions aren't petty items, they collectively add up to your total EBA package, each one has to be bargained separately with backing for your argument.

Assistance offered has been from senior labour economists with expertise in employment contracts. Anyway, you are all obviously educated and it's clear you don't want any further info. All the best.
Ol Shep is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2007, 11:40
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ol Shep
737 & EMB can and will no doubt fly international/long haul routes as stated in press releases
International, yes - long haul, no. Long haul to me and (most of us who regularly do continental crossings) is anything over probably 7 hours or so - unless the B737-900ER came along to DJ (which, who knows, it may well) I cant see the B737 operating long haul routes - particularly with the B777-300ER's on the way.

And for the record, no one here has refuted the offer of help - all they have done is provided rebuttals in a debate - often against points which were badly/incorrectly made in the first place.
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Old 10th Apr 2007, 13:38
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Ol Shep,
you wrote :

Avery, keeping an eye out is important but at the right time, pilots need to step back and refer their FA's to the experts.
Didn't you say you are a pilot? Why is it wrong for someone with a different opinion to yours to voice it?
Give it up!
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Old 11th Apr 2007, 06:35
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Vista, no problem to voicing opinions. Sharing or passing on qualified advice can be useful, particularly during new, complex and largely untested new laws. We're all in this together. As the FA's on this thread posed questions to me, I got in contact with trusted advisors who helped me research for the FA's (who are friends and colleagues) and then posted info. Brettslave has led the way, move on, so it's over to the FA's now to stand firm on what they want, time to step back and leave it to them. If they want qualification on the laws or contracts, over to them.
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Old 11th Apr 2007, 13:05
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
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First of all Happy Easter All!
Second- I'm lost with "CEBA and NEBA??"

I have just completed, in quite a rush, the EBA survey. I noted several things i disliked but wish I had more time to address.
I think it was rather silly to have the survey only open for seven days and namely over the Easter break- I only found out about the survey this evening and it closes tonight!

Hopefully my feedback will count for something though. what did everyone else write as feedback? I wrote how I felt then went back and deleted all the emotion to keep it professional, and consturctive.

Had an interesting conversation with Pac-blue cc whilst on my getaway, does anyone know more about thier work rules/conditions? Not that they have a choice in work rules as they are contract I believe. And a small enough base (80-150? NZ) to email roster requests like the good ol' days.

And has anything else been going on re EBA in my absence? ..besides the juicey posts I've been reading about!! I'm not back at work yet....

EBA Babylon xo
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Old 11th Apr 2007, 22:13
  #95 (permalink)  
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EBA_Babylon...I doubt that the timing and length of that survey was an accident....
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Old 13th Apr 2007, 06:49
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Over to my collegues

O' shep said:

ABS refer to cash earnings so need to add all other income on top of wages to get an accurate comparison.

737 & EMB can and will no doubt fly international/long haul routes as stated in press releases and as per the scope of your current EBA.

Allowances and conditions aren't petty items, they collectively add up to your total EBA package, each one has to be bargained separately with backing for your argument.

Assistance offered has been from senior labour economists with expertise in employment contracts. Anyway, you are all obviously educated and it's clear you don't want any further info. All the best.
As I now firmly believe and as Tight Slot said, we shouldn't get into arguments about petty items. When someone says something do your own reasearch and you'll find out what is right. Don't believe arguments on face value and that goes for what everyone says for and against the EBA. I think I proved that with CCguys line of arguing. I could go on proving that with evidence but what's the use.

Stand firm and I hope no one held back on the surveys
Brettslave is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2007, 06:12
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure if everyone is aware, but I think you can fill out the EBA survey on the FAAA website without being a member.

PM me if you would like me to email you the link.
crewbus is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2007, 08:08
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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does anyone know why virgin has cancelled flights from Perth-Broome in May? cheers
PER210 is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2007, 09:39
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Not enough flight crew because of resignations and upgrades. Quite a few have gone or are going to Emirates and Cathay, Sim booked out for quite a while, 12 or so crew going over to train on Embraer. Think Alliance have taken over the Perth-Broome sectors til July.
avery is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2007, 06:06
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Rumour has it that a certain head of department first name Bruce has been given the chop.
One could only assume that if this is true it has something to do with the fact that nearly 90% of the TC and CC arent happy with the EBA's put to them.
Can anyone confirm or deny this rumour???
wirgin blew is offline  

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