View Poll Results: Virgin Blue Crew - Did You vote to accept (Yes) or decline (No) the EBA
YES
16
28.07%
NO
41
71.93%
Voters: 57. This poll is closed
Virgin Blue EBA II (Poll)
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The final count clearly reflects that only 11% of cabin crew felt this EBA suited them and it is unfortunate that this small group were targeted for having a different view. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and we all have a duty to respect this.
On a side note, the company did state that the new PBS would be introduced irrespective of the voting result. The only difference is that they would have endeavoured to have it in place within 6 months after the new EBA came into effect.
On a side note, the company did state that the new PBS would be introduced irrespective of the voting result. The only difference is that they would have endeavoured to have it in place within 6 months after the new EBA came into effect.
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ak3141 you said:
Quote:
This is correct, however the efficiency of the system will be greatly diminished due to to the new work rules not being introduced. The system will not be as effecient using the old rules and the % of successful bids and the style of bids will not be much better than is currently in place as there is no flexibility within the current work rules.
The new work rules blended with the new bidding system would have allowed us to build our own roster. Now I'll just pop in my bids as per normal and get exactly what I didn't want as per usual.
Quote:
On a side note, the company did state that the new PBS would be introduced irrespective of the voting result. The only difference is that they would have endeavoured to have it in place within 6 months after the new EBA came into effect.
The new work rules blended with the new bidding system would have allowed us to build our own roster. Now I'll just pop in my bids as per normal and get exactly what I didn't want as per usual.
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Constructive debate is healthy and as has been said, everyone has the right to an opinion without being abused/harassed. The FAAA is bigger than an individual person and should be able to withstand criticism - it is paid by its members to do a job. With nearly 90% of crew unhappy with the proposed EBA, it really should just be a matter of back to the drawing board and attempting to work with the company on an agreement that most crew can live with. I do find blaming one individual for the result a bit rich and a cop-out.
I think the pilots are interested in the Cabin Crew EBA for a number of reasons, the main one being, they feel they have been unnecessarily shafted (for want of a better word) by management and wanted to ensure that the same thing didn't happen to the CC. They were also concerned about the massive amount of 'pro EBA' propaganda and the scaremongering going on and wanted CC to ensure they were happy with what they were voting on.
I don't really see any sinister motives, apart from keeping an eye out for other work-colleagues, which ultimately is a positive thing, isn't it? And Ol Shep, being a pilot yourself, I think you will find it hard to disagree with my opinion on your colleague in question, when you find out who it is.
VB don't have the correct number of crew for the PBS to work properly, so you probaly wouldn't have got what you wanted anyway. It's not simply a matter of voting in some new work rules and everyone will be happy - it has to all been done correctly and is the company willing and able to do that? Let's wait and see....
I think the pilots are interested in the Cabin Crew EBA for a number of reasons, the main one being, they feel they have been unnecessarily shafted (for want of a better word) by management and wanted to ensure that the same thing didn't happen to the CC. They were also concerned about the massive amount of 'pro EBA' propaganda and the scaremongering going on and wanted CC to ensure they were happy with what they were voting on.
I don't really see any sinister motives, apart from keeping an eye out for other work-colleagues, which ultimately is a positive thing, isn't it? And Ol Shep, being a pilot yourself, I think you will find it hard to disagree with my opinion on your colleague in question, when you find out who it is.
VB don't have the correct number of crew for the PBS to work properly, so you probaly wouldn't have got what you wanted anyway. It's not simply a matter of voting in some new work rules and everyone will be happy - it has to all been done correctly and is the company willing and able to do that? Let's wait and see....
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I think that no matter who we use to re-negotiate the next "round" of this EBA (ie faaa or a new union), we need to change over the individuals who do the negotiating. The group who are currently representing us within the faaa are clearly attached to the document just voted down. I believe that human nature would make it hard for these individuals to totally pull apart and rebuild something they believed so passionately in.
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Smile I am with you 100% on that. The delegates need to take a step down and back away from the next agreement. If the company will listen we need a much larger representation of CC when renegotiations commence. I would say at least 50 from each base and then break that 50 down into, singles, married, defacto, part time, etc. I have already sent my two cents through to my DM as I feel at this stage the FAAA are suffering from "Stockholm Syndrome." (thanks to the genius who gave me that one)
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In the end I swayed back and forth with my vote as there are certainly things that appeal to me in the new document. In the end the reasons to vote no just outweighed the reasons to vote yes.
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I can imagine the company will be sending us all a survey in the coming weeks just like the pilots. Please make sure all your feedback makes its way back to the company.
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Thanks for everyones input on the boards here. The different ways of looking at the document certainly opened up more of the document to me even though I had read it many times. Bring on Round 2.
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In the end I swayed back and forth with my vote as there are certainly things that appeal to me in the new document. In the end the reasons to vote no just outweighed the reasons to vote yes.
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I can imagine the company will be sending us all a survey in the coming weeks just like the pilots. Please make sure all your feedback makes its way back to the company.
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Thanks for everyones input on the boards here. The different ways of looking at the document certainly opened up more of the document to me even though I had read it many times. Bring on Round 2.
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Here, here, Smile!
Clearly, as has been previously stated, almost 90% of crew did not like the document presented. There are many points to it that crew felt were not in their best interest.
Democracy in action.....
Clearly, as has been previously stated, almost 90% of crew did not like the document presented. There are many points to it that crew felt were not in their best interest.
Democracy in action.....
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Congratulations people - you're discussing this matter in an open, honest, and more importantly, ADULT manner. It's a stark contrast to some of the other threads that have existed here (not naming names, of course...
)
Strong communication is required now between you and the FAAA as to where you go with this. Remember - it's YOUR union, so get involved!
However - be mindful that while your reps will have invested much in the EBA, I do believe they're professional enough to recognise it's defeat, and come up with something different in round 2. Don't discount your reps on the basis that they will feel 'angry' or upset their 'baby' didn't get through. They'll pickup where they left off and start all over again - hopefully, this time round, with a clearer idea of how the majority of crew feel.
)Strong communication is required now between you and the FAAA as to where you go with this. Remember - it's YOUR union, so get involved!
However - be mindful that while your reps will have invested much in the EBA, I do believe they're professional enough to recognise it's defeat, and come up with something different in round 2. Don't discount your reps on the basis that they will feel 'angry' or upset their 'baby' didn't get through. They'll pickup where they left off and start all over again - hopefully, this time round, with a clearer idea of how the majority of crew feel.
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Avery, keeping an eye out is important but at the right time, pilots need to step back and refer their FA's to the experts. The FAAA holds the key to all the awards and EBAs negotiated in Australian aviation history. Without this knowledge and experience you might as well "whistle dixie". Other long standing unions can try to help crew but it is a specialist field, in the end referred on to the FAAA. I'm sure our colleague's plan was honourable, the instrument approach somewhat misguided and possibly causing an unnecessary go around. Having said this, one opinion did not solely change the course as it was the crew's opinion which really counts in the end. You are right the FAAA is not an individual. They have depth and no doubt broad shoulders. Taking criticism will be a walk in the park compared to negotiations with airline management.
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Originally Posted By Big Hairy Potatoes
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Kronos wouldn't be able to sell their workforce management systems if they only worked with one set of rules.
Originally Posted By Mr Seatback 2
Congratulations people - you're discussing this matter in an open, honest, and more importantly, ADULT manner.
Congratulations people - you're discussing this matter in an open, honest, and more importantly, ADULT manner.
Originally Posted By Ol Shep
I'm sure our colleague's plan was honourable, the instrument approach somewhat misguided and possibly causing an unnecessary go around. Having said this, one opinion did not solely change the course as it was the crew's opinion which really counts in the end.
I'm sure our colleague's plan was honourable, the instrument approach somewhat misguided and possibly causing an unnecessary go around. Having said this, one opinion did not solely change the course as it was the crew's opinion which really counts in the end.
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I'm sure our colleague's plan was honourable, the instrument approach somewhat misguided and possibly causing an unnecessary go around.
I think everyone decided a go around was the best option rather than risking it and pressing on. The captain was just giving his opinion. He thought we all deserve better and we all agreed hence the vote.
If the company had a good working history, maybe they would be trusted a little bit more and the EBA might have had half a chance. The last EBA resulted in us being drafted on days off. Everyone agreed to it because they trusted the FAAA and the company. OH how things have changed.
The FAAA is paid by us, it's members to represent our views and lobby for our cause. Not the other way around. Why didn't they lobby the company for guaranteed days off?? Why didn't they lobby for at least CPI which is more than 3% before tax?? And most importantly Why did they HIGHLY RECOMMEND a YES Vote to an EBA which has so many holes in it that it could sink the Queen Mary!!?? How out of touch from the members could you be??... I could go on but those who don't want to see sense will never get it.
Go Around Windshear Ahead.....
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Mr Seat back 2
I think your seat is too far back, you're looking at the ceiling.. can you please put your seat back up for landing.
Oh and look up the definition of "un-emotive" in the dictionary.
I think your seat is too far back, you're looking at the ceiling.. can you please put your seat back up for landing.
(oh how FORTUNATE for everyone!). seems this pilots knickers are well and truly knotted, for someone who's not even able to VOTE on the EBA! As for the tripe about VIPA (blah blah blah), let the pilots do their thing.
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i luv jet noise
BINGO...Mate just ask yourselfs who is complaining about the pilots giving advice.who is going to lose out if you both got together.
You gotta look at the big picture.Have some meetings and work out what you want.
Boys and Girls what if you and the pilots got together to form one union?
I reckon it would be good for us to do it to but there is to much history for that to work but not with you guys .
BINGO...Mate just ask yourselfs who is complaining about the pilots giving advice.who is going to lose out if you both got together.
You gotta look at the big picture.Have some meetings and work out what you want.
Boys and Girls what if you and the pilots got together to form one union?
I reckon it would be good for us to do it to but there is to much history for that to work but not with you guys .
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http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-23349,00.html
Virgin crew reject deal
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
April 04, 2007
VIRGIN Blue is facing a backlash from flight attendants and pilots after an enterprise bargaining agreement was overwhelmingly rejected.
Pilot discontent about stalled negotiations over pay and working hours reached boiling point in February and led to warnings that Virgin could be hit with its first ever strike.
Now, nine out of 10 flight attendants have rejected a new enterprise bargaining agreement after two years of negotiations.
The rejection came as Virgin denied a shortage of pilots had led to flights being cut. Spokeswoman Heather Jeffery said the airline's pilot roster was running tighter because some were undertaking upgrade training.
Some pilots were also on annual leave and claims that a shortage was leading to cancellations were "a little imaginative", she said.
However, the Australian Federation of Air Pilots said: "There may be other reasons, but there is an intrinsic shortage of pilots."
The flight attendants voted 992 to 123 vote to reject the agreement on Monday although their union, the Flight Attendants Association of Australia, had endorsed it. The union did not return calls yesterday.
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
April 04, 2007
VIRGIN Blue is facing a backlash from flight attendants and pilots after an enterprise bargaining agreement was overwhelmingly rejected.
Pilot discontent about stalled negotiations over pay and working hours reached boiling point in February and led to warnings that Virgin could be hit with its first ever strike.
Now, nine out of 10 flight attendants have rejected a new enterprise bargaining agreement after two years of negotiations.
The rejection came as Virgin denied a shortage of pilots had led to flights being cut. Spokeswoman Heather Jeffery said the airline's pilot roster was running tighter because some were undertaking upgrade training.
Some pilots were also on annual leave and claims that a shortage was leading to cancellations were "a little imaginative", she said.
However, the Australian Federation of Air Pilots said: "There may be other reasons, but there is an intrinsic shortage of pilots."
The flight attendants voted 992 to 123 vote to reject the agreement on Monday although their union, the Flight Attendants Association of Australia, had endorsed it. The union did not return calls yesterday.
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Quoted by Brettslave-
Research www.wagenet.gov.au - being drafted on days off was in your 2000 agreement not the last EBA. You can check it out for yourself. Small and large airlines go through times of crew shortage and high hours or drafting occurs because crew leave at short notice before others can be trained up. The common thread (pun) for the crew appears to be mistrust of the FAAA and the company, is it not? If so, specifically?
The last EBA resulted in us being drafted on days off. Everyone agreed to it because they trusted the FAAA and the company. OH how things have changed.
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Of course - they can only draft you if you answer your phone in the first place
And they can draft us prior to the day of operation - they can do it on our computerised sign on/sign off system.
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That is exactly my point, "can draft people on days off during times of staff shortage or when people leave" We didn't have to agree to it again in the last EBA did we? We trusted management that they would hardly ever happen.
Well this seems to happen all too often and quite frankly we are getting sick of it. I know people who have missed out on very important events, and they aren't just one off incidents. This management is reactive not proactive. And there is no signs of changing thier ways.
Trust is an important factor and management seems to be abuse this sort of trust in a big way. I think they expected to pull the wool over our eyes again this time, but as the great Abe Lincoln said;
You may fool all the people some of the time; you can even fool some of the people all the time; but you can’t fool all of the people all the time.
Mr Seat back 2 I love your pearls of un-emotive wisdom, can you tell me in an "adult" way how you can avoid getting drafted when you get a message on sign on 5 days before your day off informing you that you've been drafted.
O'l Shep, I think it's safe to assume the FAAA is not aligned with it's members when they emphatically endorse a yes vote which ends up getting voted down by 9 out of 10 members. Even 6 out of 10 would get you thinking but 9 out of 10 hmmm. For a union to recommend a YES vote you'd expect at leat 55% of it's members to be thinking the same. Why did the FAAA not spend more time finding out what we it's members wanted rather than shoving what the company wanted down our throats.
Call me naive but this sends alarm bells ringing for me
Well this seems to happen all too often and quite frankly we are getting sick of it. I know people who have missed out on very important events, and they aren't just one off incidents. This management is reactive not proactive. And there is no signs of changing thier ways.
Trust is an important factor and management seems to be abuse this sort of trust in a big way. I think they expected to pull the wool over our eyes again this time, but as the great Abe Lincoln said;
You may fool all the people some of the time; you can even fool some of the people all the time; but you can’t fool all of the people all the time.
Mr Seat back 2 I love your pearls of un-emotive wisdom, can you tell me in an "adult" way how you can avoid getting drafted when you get a message on sign on 5 days before your day off informing you that you've been drafted.
O'l Shep, I think it's safe to assume the FAAA is not aligned with it's members when they emphatically endorse a yes vote which ends up getting voted down by 9 out of 10 members. Even 6 out of 10 would get you thinking but 9 out of 10 hmmm. For a union to recommend a YES vote you'd expect at leat 55% of it's members to be thinking the same. Why did the FAAA not spend more time finding out what we it's members wanted rather than shoving what the company wanted down our throats.
Call me naive but this sends alarm bells ringing for me
Last edited by Brettslave; 4th Apr 2007 at 05:18.