Virgin UK - Crew Discussions
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Can anybody get onto the union's website? It won't let me access it today and a little birdie has told me that details of the new pay offer are now on there!
Can't wait to see what I'm sure we'll all be saying NO to in a few days time!
Can't wait to see what I'm sure we'll all be saying NO to in a few days time!
Join Date: Mar 2007
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From Amicus Website - News Section
Wednesday 8th August 2007
Following a further two days of talks with Unite the union, Virgin Atlantic have come forward with a much improved pay offer for it’s cabin crew.
A joint communiqué has been sent to all employees advising that they will receive details of the offer and a consultative ballot paper, with a recommendation from the negotiating committee to accept the deal, by the end of this week.
Unite (Amicus section) National Officer, Brian Boyd, said: “Unite now believe that we have reached a point where the important part played by cabin crew in the continued success of Virgin Atlantic has been recognised.”
-Ends-
Contact Martin Scanlon, Unite press office 020 7420 8934 or 07764 655 751
Note to Editors
The 3 year deal ( 36 months) is as follows:
1. 1st. Year - 4.8%
2nd. Year - RPI.
3rd. Year - RPI.
2. Trip pay - 20% increase during the first 2 years of the deal. Trip pay will be pensionable from April 2009.
As part of the offer, there will be changes to standby duties, aimed at improving the efficiency of the operation. The offer also included review of crew compliments which should again improve efficiency.
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Following a further two days of talks with Unite the union, Virgin Atlantic have come forward with a much improved pay offer for it’s cabin crew.
A joint communiqué has been sent to all employees advising that they will receive details of the offer and a consultative ballot paper, with a recommendation from the negotiating committee to accept the deal, by the end of this week.
Unite (Amicus section) National Officer, Brian Boyd, said: “Unite now believe that we have reached a point where the important part played by cabin crew in the continued success of Virgin Atlantic has been recognised.”
-Ends-
Contact Martin Scanlon, Unite press office 020 7420 8934 or 07764 655 751
Note to Editors
The 3 year deal ( 36 months) is as follows:
1. 1st. Year - 4.8%
2nd. Year - RPI.
3rd. Year - RPI.
2. Trip pay - 20% increase during the first 2 years of the deal. Trip pay will be pensionable from April 2009.
As part of the offer, there will be changes to standby duties, aimed at improving the efficiency of the operation. The offer also included review of crew compliments which should again improve efficiency.
Home | About us | News & Events | Campaigns | Services | Resources | Sectors | Regions © 2007 Unite. All rights reserved. All trademarks acknowledged. Web design and web development by Redweb
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Why do they continually try to get us over a barrel, 5 blocks of standby now in 3 years is terrible. And reducing a scc on the 600 is bad, gutted for some reason really thought they would listen to the crew this time!!!!!! obviously too naive for my own good.....VOTE NO !!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Vote No No No!!!
Guys,
They are taking our Airshare away so they could pay fatter bonuses to the management! Last year it was supposedly a bad year but we still got Airshare.
Airshare is based on your basic salary. As SCC my Airshare was worth 1.7% of my basic! So in other words the actual pay increase they are promising is 4.8%-1.7%=3.1% in a bad year! The year before we got Airshare worth well over 3.5%, which would mean they pay deal is worth 1.3% in a good year! What I am saying is that don't be fooled by numbers, it may look good but it ain't!
Also taking a SCC off the 600 means good-bye to splitting into 4 forever! And with crew down we may easily have a situation where we have to split into 2!
Money-wise 1 crew member less on say, 30 LHR departures and 30 overseas departures means saving 60 crewmember's pay and our average cycle is 5-6 days, so they would be saving 300-360 SCC salaries, trip pay etc. per week! And no airshare to us! Does this sound like someone is after more money on our expense? I think so!
VOTE NO!!!
VOTE NO!!!
VOTE NO!!!
They are taking our Airshare away so they could pay fatter bonuses to the management! Last year it was supposedly a bad year but we still got Airshare.
Airshare is based on your basic salary. As SCC my Airshare was worth 1.7% of my basic! So in other words the actual pay increase they are promising is 4.8%-1.7%=3.1% in a bad year! The year before we got Airshare worth well over 3.5%, which would mean they pay deal is worth 1.3% in a good year! What I am saying is that don't be fooled by numbers, it may look good but it ain't!
Also taking a SCC off the 600 means good-bye to splitting into 4 forever! And with crew down we may easily have a situation where we have to split into 2!
Money-wise 1 crew member less on say, 30 LHR departures and 30 overseas departures means saving 60 crewmember's pay and our average cycle is 5-6 days, so they would be saving 300-360 SCC salaries, trip pay etc. per week! And no airshare to us! Does this sound like someone is after more money on our expense? I think so!
VOTE NO!!!
VOTE NO!!!
VOTE NO!!!
Join Date: Jan 2007
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backdating!
One more thing!
They are cheating us out of our agreement! The proposed deal starts from July1, so no back pay from April when the last deal ran out!
Is it just me or the union got tired and gave up on us???
They are cheating us out of our agreement! The proposed deal starts from July1, so no back pay from April when the last deal ran out!
Is it just me or the union got tired and gave up on us???
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AMS. Standby is on a monthly basis. We do a full month of it, and only get two guaranteed days off in that month, which can't be moved. Basically it means you can't plan anything for that month, and for commuters it's a total nightmare. The new pay agreement wants us to increase the monthly standby from four blocks in three years, to five blocks in three years.
The latest pay offer seems worse to me, or am I missing something?
They give with one hand and take with the other.
It's a no from me.
The latest pay offer seems worse to me, or am I missing something?
They give with one hand and take with the other.It's a no from me.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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After working for the company for nearly ten years stike action wasnt what i wanted, however this is the first time that the cabin crew have ever stuck up for themselves. I know this is a business at the end of the day but we have been losing from the start of these negotiations. Who exactly are the union listening too !!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Vote NO...
The official (insulting) offer is now on ifly. Its basically a pay cut no matter what company spin they put on it. I'm appalled with the union for agreeing to this. Once I have voted NO I will be cancelling my membership with AMICUS.
VOTE NO....they will come back with another offer than can only be better!
VOTE NO....they will come back with another offer than can only be better!
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Quitting the union would not be a smart move, backtofront. At least through them we can get some stuff through, without it the company can dictate us their policy any way they like and we would not be able to threaten with a strike or anything.
but as I said above, the offer is a joke. Vote NO NO NO!
but as I said above, the offer is a joke. Vote NO NO NO!
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sirual80
sirual80
You are right. I'm annoyed that we are paying them to represent us but they haven't asked us what we want i.e. a pay increase with NO detrimental conditions.
You are right. I'm annoyed that we are paying them to represent us but they haven't asked us what we want i.e. a pay increase with NO detrimental conditions.
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oh my god this deal is an absoloute joke! wot on earth were the union thinking? (did someones palm get crossed with silver?) The deal would be acceptable if it wasnt for the extra (as virgin managment say enhancements) An extra standby month/loosing most of the share of airshare/ loosing 1 crew member on 600!
The management must be laughing at the union! They are treating us like an absoloute joke. This deal must save them a fortune e,g 1 less crew on 600= 1 less salary/allowances/training/hotel accom.
How about a new pay deal and an increase of pay with the same crew compliments and same standby agreements??
Oh yes and I noticed how the new pay deal would be as of July. ( so no back pay)
well screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwww you vs joke of a management!
The management must be laughing at the union! They are treating us like an absoloute joke. This deal must save them a fortune e,g 1 less crew on 600= 1 less salary/allowances/training/hotel accom.
How about a new pay deal and an increase of pay with the same crew compliments and same standby agreements??
Oh yes and I noticed how the new pay deal would be as of July. ( so no back pay)
well screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwww you vs joke of a management!
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There is only so much you can do through negotiation. You have been delivered an RPI + a bit rise for the next 3 years and your reps would be doing the crew community a disservice if they did not give you all the right to take time to reflect on that deal.
You now vote. If the result is acceptance of the deal, then the pay round is complete. If you vote no with a heavy majority, Amicus will ask its membership what it wants to do next up to and including full industrial action in a position of strength. 60-40 or 40-60, it is a loose loose.
Good luck in whatever you choose.
You now vote. If the result is acceptance of the deal, then the pay round is complete. If you vote no with a heavy majority, Amicus will ask its membership what it wants to do next up to and including full industrial action in a position of strength. 60-40 or 40-60, it is a loose loose.
Good luck in whatever you choose.
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The reality is that you are not represented by the Union. I am Crew but am not a Union member.
Did it not strike anybody as odd that Brian Boyd was making statements to the press during negotiations? He was not doing that for the benefit of the Crew - he was doing so, in my opinion, to further his own career and raise his own profile. Self publicity rather than an outcome desirable to union members may have been the priority.
The company only have a set amount to play with in terms of pay negotiations - all 3 offers prob have been dealing with the same amount - just rehashed in different packages.
If the union wanted a higher guaranteed initial pay increase ie 4.8%, then it stands to reason that they would make cutbacks elsewhere in terms of crew compliments and airshare. The union would have been fully aware of this throughout - they have indeed urged union members to accept.
IF I was a union member I would not be annoyed with the company - they are a business and will always have financial limtiations and constraints, and its a smart move to suggest 3 deals without real finiancial increases. I would however feel very let down by those employed to represent me - the Union.
Did it not strike anybody as odd that Brian Boyd was making statements to the press during negotiations? He was not doing that for the benefit of the Crew - he was doing so, in my opinion, to further his own career and raise his own profile. Self publicity rather than an outcome desirable to union members may have been the priority.
The company only have a set amount to play with in terms of pay negotiations - all 3 offers prob have been dealing with the same amount - just rehashed in different packages.
If the union wanted a higher guaranteed initial pay increase ie 4.8%, then it stands to reason that they would make cutbacks elsewhere in terms of crew compliments and airshare. The union would have been fully aware of this throughout - they have indeed urged union members to accept.
IF I was a union member I would not be annoyed with the company - they are a business and will always have financial limtiations and constraints, and its a smart move to suggest 3 deals without real finiancial increases. I would however feel very let down by those employed to represent me - the Union.
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Litebulbs
Litebulbs - yes the basic has increased by RPI but then is taken away through the other 'extras' so in fact we are getting nothing more and being asked, no TOLD we will have one less crew member so will have to work harder. Far-king joke
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This Is A Complete Joke...
A 4.8% increase (RPI) is not a Pay Rise, simply an increase to keep up with the cost of living, yet in order to gain this increase we are having to make sacrifices. This year CSS's received an Airshare payment of approx 360 pounds which is 2% of their basic salary, last year our Airshare payment was greater. This has been absorbed into our 'Pay Rise" making the real increase for 2.8% (funnily the exact offer that was made second time around - but with NO sacrifices). The union have agreed that no Airshare payment will be made until the 5% threshold is exceeded, that means in order for CSS's to receive ANY Airshare, the payment would have to be greater than 912 pounds and even then they would only receive the percentage ABOVE the 5%. This is baffling as the 4.8% "increase" to CSS's basic is only worth 876 pounds meaning they'd be NO BETTER OFF AT ALL!!!
On top of this we are losing a crew member permanently on the A340-600. This represents a MASSIVE saving to the company in terms of salary. trip pay, hotel and allowances. Usually when a flight is 1 crew member down, the company would pay each crew member 5 pounds, this would also be saved.
How Virgin manages to class a weekend as fri/sat, sat/sun, sun/mon is beyond me but was always tolerated. The proposed change to guaranteed days off is NOT acceptable.
Regarding the agreement to review the Trip Pay structure in 2009 is almost an empty promise and no guarantees have been made which makes this practically worthless.
Trip Pay increase of almost 20% in two years time... that's quite a way off! We need decent increases NOW.
I agree with the comment about the Union (i.e. Brian Boyd) trying to further their own agenda.
THE OFFERS ARE GETTING WORSE, WE'D HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF WITH THE PREVIOUS OFFER OF 2.8% AS IT DIDN'T HAVE ANY "PRODUCTIVITY ENHANCEMENTS" YET GAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF INCREASE.
VOTE NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On top of this we are losing a crew member permanently on the A340-600. This represents a MASSIVE saving to the company in terms of salary. trip pay, hotel and allowances. Usually when a flight is 1 crew member down, the company would pay each crew member 5 pounds, this would also be saved.
How Virgin manages to class a weekend as fri/sat, sat/sun, sun/mon is beyond me but was always tolerated. The proposed change to guaranteed days off is NOT acceptable.
Regarding the agreement to review the Trip Pay structure in 2009 is almost an empty promise and no guarantees have been made which makes this practically worthless.
Trip Pay increase of almost 20% in two years time... that's quite a way off! We need decent increases NOW.
I agree with the comment about the Union (i.e. Brian Boyd) trying to further their own agenda.
THE OFFERS ARE GETTING WORSE, WE'D HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF WITH THE PREVIOUS OFFER OF 2.8% AS IT DIDN'T HAVE ANY "PRODUCTIVITY ENHANCEMENTS" YET GAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF INCREASE.
VOTE NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I was only trying to explain what Amicus are trying to do.
The actual strength is down to the union. When I say union, I mean the members, not the full time officials. They do as you tell them, You pay their wages. The problem generally is that on a one to one chat, most members do not tell their union official what they actually think.
Get your reps to book a local venue and have a mass meeting, well maybe a cocktail party?! Let Mr Boyd know your feeling by making his life a living misery. That is what he is there for. He is there to serve your needs.
The actual strength is down to the union. When I say union, I mean the members, not the full time officials. They do as you tell them, You pay their wages. The problem generally is that on a one to one chat, most members do not tell their union official what they actually think.
Get your reps to book a local venue and have a mass meeting, well maybe a cocktail party?! Let Mr Boyd know your feeling by making his life a living misery. That is what he is there for. He is there to serve your needs.
Last edited by Litebulbs; 9th Aug 2007 at 08:11.
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from cc.com
from another website...taking off the 1 crew member on the 346 will save the company approx £6million and the pay increase will cost the company approx £3million so they are actually saving £3million per year and thats not taking the removal of airshare into account!
And they have the nerve to tell us what a fantastic offer this is...BS
And they have the nerve to tell us what a fantastic offer this is...BS
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Stay strong and TOGETHER!
Hi Guys,
I work for BA. Just wanted to convey my personal support to each and everyone of you, and say STAY STRONG AND TOGETHER. In our potential dispute in January, we had a 96.1% yes vote (for action) from BASSA members, yet we were taken to the cleaners royally. Our most united time amongst members got us virtually nothing. Please learn from our mistake.
DO NOT settle for second best. Virgin Atlantic can afford to give you guys what you deserve (after all they got off scot free from the price fixing scandal!), and each and everyone of you deserve better terms and conditions than you receive. Those of you who believe strongly in standing up for your fair share, coach member especially younger members who may think they are only at VS "for a couple of years". Virgin Atlantic is no longer the company that would not recruit crew after 28 (unless you had previous flying experience), and made crew retire at 36. I'm sure there are some of you (an ever growing number) that look at your job as a long term career. Remember what you except today, will remain in your terms and conditions for a very long time!
GOOD LUCK! There are many of us at BA that will be with you in spirit if it does come to Industrial Action. At a time when airline executives at EVERY airline are filling their pockets and improving their pensions, bonuses, etc. They find it necessary to intimidate, and make the very people who bring the customers back, make the sacrifices! UNACCEPTABLE.
I work for BA. Just wanted to convey my personal support to each and everyone of you, and say STAY STRONG AND TOGETHER. In our potential dispute in January, we had a 96.1% yes vote (for action) from BASSA members, yet we were taken to the cleaners royally. Our most united time amongst members got us virtually nothing. Please learn from our mistake.
DO NOT settle for second best. Virgin Atlantic can afford to give you guys what you deserve (after all they got off scot free from the price fixing scandal!), and each and everyone of you deserve better terms and conditions than you receive. Those of you who believe strongly in standing up for your fair share, coach member especially younger members who may think they are only at VS "for a couple of years". Virgin Atlantic is no longer the company that would not recruit crew after 28 (unless you had previous flying experience), and made crew retire at 36. I'm sure there are some of you (an ever growing number) that look at your job as a long term career. Remember what you except today, will remain in your terms and conditions for a very long time!
GOOD LUCK! There are many of us at BA that will be with you in spirit if it does come to Industrial Action. At a time when airline executives at EVERY airline are filling their pockets and improving their pensions, bonuses, etc. They find it necessary to intimidate, and make the very people who bring the customers back, make the sacrifices! UNACCEPTABLE.
