Virgin Blue EBA
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For me one of the most worrying points in the proposed EBA is the fact that Virgin will be able to employ or engage casual cabin crew and cabin crew on maximum term contracts (see 3.14.5 and 3.14.6). What will probably happen in my opinion is that all new cabin crew will be employed on contracts under very different working conditions (like Qantas has done with MAM), thereby creating a divide in the workforce and a loss of secure permanent full time jobs and those conditions that go with permanent full time jobs such as annual leave, long service leave, maternity leave etc. And yes thanks to our federal government AWA's will become the norm. I will be voting NO based purely on this point (though there are not many positive notes in the proposed EBA anyway). Though Virgin has been responsible for creating many wonderful opportunities since its inception in 2000 (though helped in part by the collapse of Ansett), it is also responsible for eroding conditions in the industry that existed prior to its entry. I am very much interested in ensuring this company remains viable and successful but not at the continual expense of workplace conditions. They reduced the crew complement and we have had to adjust to these new working conditions and what reward have we received for the millions of dollars we are saving the company.....NOTHING!!
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Virgin Blue Cabin Crew Interview Info
I have a friend who has been invited for a Cabin Crew position with Virgin Blue. Can anyone briefly outline the interview day routine for her please.
Thanks
Thanks
Guys & Gals,
Don't worry about the line "there is no alternative if this isn't accepted" as dictated by the Co.........................look what has/and hasn't changed since the pilots rejected their proposed EBA Doc.
If nothing changes then you cannot be forced to accept any lowering of conditions...........i.e it cannot get any worse than it is now!
If you accept the new EBA you are endorsing what the Co wants............read the whole Doc and if any part doesn't fit the bill,then vote NO. Alternatively if you think it is a great Doc then vote accordingly.
Good Luck!
Don't worry about the line "there is no alternative if this isn't accepted" as dictated by the Co.........................look what has/and hasn't changed since the pilots rejected their proposed EBA Doc.
If nothing changes then you cannot be forced to accept any lowering of conditions...........i.e it cannot get any worse than it is now!
If you accept the new EBA you are endorsing what the Co wants............read the whole Doc and if any part doesn't fit the bill,then vote NO. Alternatively if you think it is a great Doc then vote accordingly.
Good Luck!
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2.2.7 Extended Pairings / Augmented Cabin Crew
Should we deem it operationally necessary to introduce extended pairings, beyond the duty hour limitations set out
in this Agreement, we will consult with the FAAA. We will reach agreement with the FAAA prior to introducing any
such pairings. Depending on the pairings this may include the use of augmented cabin crew.
Should we deem it operationally necessary to introduce extended pairings, beyond the duty hour limitations set out
in this Agreement, we will consult with the FAAA. We will reach agreement with the FAAA prior to introducing any
such pairings. Depending on the pairings this may include the use of augmented cabin crew.
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2.3 Dealing with Special Circumstances
Where special circumstances arise which have the capacity to impact on our business we may need to vary the
terms of this Agreement.
Any such variation will be through the provision of a dispensation issued by an accredited representative of the
FAAA. Any request for a dispensation will not be unreasonably withheld where it is sought.
Where special circumstances arise which have the capacity to impact on our business we may need to vary the
terms of this Agreement.
Any such variation will be through the provision of a dispensation issued by an accredited representative of the
FAAA. Any request for a dispensation will not be unreasonably withheld where it is sought.
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1.5 Relationship to Other Industrial Instruments and Legislation
This Agreement is a comprehensive agreement. It replaces and excludes all awards (including all protected award
conditions in those awards), orders of industrial commissions and industrial agreements however described that
would otherwise apply to Cabin Crew members.
It excludes all state laws excepting those dealing with occupational health and safety, workers’ compensation,
apprenticeship and long service leave.
This Agreement is a comprehensive agreement. It replaces and excludes all awards (including all protected award
conditions in those awards), orders of industrial commissions and industrial agreements however described that
would otherwise apply to Cabin Crew members.
It excludes all state laws excepting those dealing with occupational health and safety, workers’ compensation,
apprenticeship and long service leave.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1.6 No Extra Claims
This Agreement covers the field in relation to all employment matters. Those bound by it and those to whom it
applies will not pursue any additional claims whatsoever or however described or any further wage or allowance
increases against Virgin Blue during the life of this Agreement relating to any matter or employment condition
whether covered by this Agreement or not.
This Agreement covers the field in relation to all employment matters. Those bound by it and those to whom it
applies will not pursue any additional claims whatsoever or however described or any further wage or allowance
increases against Virgin Blue during the life of this Agreement relating to any matter or employment condition
whether covered by this Agreement or not.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting reading - anyone got anything to add/clarify?
PS For those who are unfamiliar, DPS is Denpasaar in Bali.
Last edited by sinala1; 10th Mar 2007 at 07:40.
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call me a bimbo but when has virgin blue flown to denpasar or singapore or are you preempting that this is we're we will be flying to in the future???
I am praying that this eba does not go through!!! They make such a HUUGGEE profit as it is, why not keep your crew happy. They have already reduced the crew down to four (I can only imagine to increase their profitability, not to keep up to date with the rest of the world), so why try and come up with every other way to squeeze out a bit more!!!
I am praying that this eba does not go through!!! They make such a HUUGGEE profit as it is, why not keep your crew happy. They have already reduced the crew down to four (I can only imagine to increase their profitability, not to keep up to date with the rest of the world), so why try and come up with every other way to squeeze out a bit more!!!
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Originally Posted by djvirginblue
call me a bimbo
(Just Kidding - we need to laugh at ourselves through all this! 
)
Originally Posted by djvirginblue
but when has virgin blue flown to denpasar or singapore or are you preempting that this is we're we will be flying to in the future???
1.3 Operation and Application of this Agreement
This Agreement applies to Virgin Blue Cabin Crew members operating on Boeing 737 and Embraer aircraft
operated by Virgin Blue on domestic and international routes where a flight involves a time zone change of not
more than 3 hours from Eastern Standard Time or Eastern Standard Summer Time. This Agreement extends to
operations no further north than the line of latitude passing through Singapore.
This Agreement applies to Virgin Blue Cabin Crew members operating on Boeing 737 and Embraer aircraft
operated by Virgin Blue on domestic and international routes where a flight involves a time zone change of not
more than 3 hours from Eastern Standard Time or Eastern Standard Summer Time. This Agreement extends to
operations no further north than the line of latitude passing through Singapore.
2.2.8 International Operations
To the extent that as a business we elect to operate internationally under this Agreement, including extended
pairings, we will discuss this with the FAAA prior to doing so.
To the extent that as a business we elect to operate internationally under this Agreement, including extended
pairings, we will discuss this with the FAAA prior to doing so.
4.1 Salaries, Pay Rates and Annualised Allowances
Your total salary comprises a base salary along with various annualised allowances, which are set out below. It
includes payment for working the full variety of shifts, weekends and public holidays. It also includes payment for
all work associated with international operations and endorsement on Boeing 737 and Embraer aircraft.
Your total salary comprises a base salary along with various annualised allowances, which are set out below. It
includes payment for working the full variety of shifts, weekends and public holidays. It also includes payment for
all work associated with international operations and endorsement on Boeing 737 and Embraer aircraft.
.
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Im all EBA'd out!
My head is spinning!
I've read it and re-read it - and still I think its bad!
It's made me so delirious that I dont think I can even spell EBA anymore!
Maybe it's Hypoxia from my really really really long duty under the new EBA - yeah - that must be it!
Dont worry about me though - I will just have a quick 5 hour nap in this Aircraft parked on the tarmac in the middle of nowhere - that will have me all rested up!
I will just crack the doors and let some air in - dont want it to be too hot in here!
I've read it and re-read it - and still I think its bad!
It's made me so delirious that I dont think I can even spell EBA anymore!
Maybe it's Hypoxia from my really really really long duty under the new EBA - yeah - that must be it!
Dont worry about me though - I will just have a quick 5 hour nap in this Aircraft parked on the tarmac in the middle of nowhere - that will have me all rested up!
I will just crack the doors and let some air in - dont want it to be too hot in here!
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re: huge profit
A major reason why VB has made a huge profit, is that they hedged the jet fuel at (using a nonspecific figure) $60 a barrel thou budgeted $80 so every barrel used they profited $20 dollars.
So the profit as such is more a saving than anything else. Hedging only started recently that why there is an increase of $$$$. Funnily enough the share price sky rocketed above the initial float price.
A major reason why VB has made a huge profit, is that they hedged the jet fuel at (using a nonspecific figure) $60 a barrel thou budgeted $80 so every barrel used they profited $20 dollars.
So the profit as such is more a saving than anything else. Hedging only started recently that why there is an increase of $$$$. Funnily enough the share price sky rocketed above the initial float price.
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Sure it cannot get any worse?
If nothing changes then you cannot be forced to accept any lowering of conditions...........i.e it cannot get any worse than it is now!
Have you not read the papers and heard the real life stories lately? Have you not heard of Workchoices? Overnight you can be put in a position to accept a lowering of conditions, take it or leave it, under Workchoices. They don't call it coercion, they call it restructuring by rescinding your current agreement replaced by AWAs. Why do you think the State govts have set up the Fair Go Hotline, because it is truly happening. Think about your EBA proposal carefully.
Don't worry about the line "there is no alternative if this isn't accepted" as dictated by the Co.........................look what has/and hasn't changed since the pilots rejected their proposed EBA Doc.
Most clauses which I've read seem to have rolled over into the new EBA without too much change except your Operations part. The table is more lenient than most on offer round the world. The rostering table is even better. The union has managed to keep your required hours to below the Workchoices minimum of an average 38 hour week plus whatever overtime you are expected to do for the love of it! instead of Workchoices 152 hour 4 week period, you only have to work somewhere between 125-140hours maximum and you get paid overtime too. There's no overtime penalty payments in Workchoices. And you kept your 6weeks annual leave-hold on to that one and don't let Workchoices rule!
A NO vote is not a solution to better conditions, a NO vote may indeed pave the way for the lowering of conditions you speak of. Don't be fooled by people who haven't done research outside of simply saying what they like and don't like about the agreement. You should maybe look a little further down the track what will a NO vote bring?
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Hello Ol_Shep, welcome to Pprune - I see thats your first post - its not often we get a Virgin Blue "pilot" posting in our EBA discussions, so welcome aboard 
Could I ask a favour - you seem to be quite educated on the WorkChoices legislation and its potential application to Cabin Crew - perhaps you could post links to the information you are referring to? I would be quite interested in reading it - particularly the reference you make to rescinding current agreements and replacing them with AWA's.
Interesting also to note that the comparisons you are making under the WorkChoices legislation are mostly to Ground jobs. I doubt Mr Howard is familiar with URTI, but thats not his job to be familiar with it - thats where the FAAA (or, in your case, as I am sure you are aware, being a pilot and all - the AFAP) and our union delegates negotiate on our behalf to have conditions relevant to our employment included in the agreement. Granted under an AWA this may not be the case - however, as mentioned earlier, I would really like to read the specifics of the ability of a company to rescind a currently active Certified Agreement, that was lodged under the Workplace Relations Act (1996) prior to the introduction of the Workchoices Legislation.
Thanks for that, its much appreciated - just more reading for me - its certainly been an interesting & educating few days!
Could I ask a favour - you seem to be quite educated on the WorkChoices legislation and its potential application to Cabin Crew - perhaps you could post links to the information you are referring to? I would be quite interested in reading it - particularly the reference you make to rescinding current agreements and replacing them with AWA's.
Interesting also to note that the comparisons you are making under the WorkChoices legislation are mostly to Ground jobs. I doubt Mr Howard is familiar with URTI, but thats not his job to be familiar with it - thats where the FAAA (or, in your case, as I am sure you are aware, being a pilot and all - the AFAP) and our union delegates negotiate on our behalf to have conditions relevant to our employment included in the agreement. Granted under an AWA this may not be the case - however, as mentioned earlier, I would really like to read the specifics of the ability of a company to rescind a currently active Certified Agreement, that was lodged under the Workplace Relations Act (1996) prior to the introduction of the Workchoices Legislation.
Thanks for that, its much appreciated - just more reading for me - its certainly been an interesting & educating few days!
Last edited by sinala1; 11th Mar 2007 at 09:39.
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Hey Team,
Glad to hear that there is a healthy discussion about this topic!
After reading the EBA - (like most) I am feeling a little let down. It seems that a big issue to us is trust. The fact that a lot of the lingo leaves many grey areas, and a lot of things open to interpretation. The interpretation of these grey areas has always been different depending on the day and the person reading the document. We need things to be clearly defined in black and white! I for one do not trust the "we will endeavour" line!
at this point I am thinking better the devil you know.
Its a no for me......
Glad to hear that there is a healthy discussion about this topic!
After reading the EBA - (like most) I am feeling a little let down. It seems that a big issue to us is trust. The fact that a lot of the lingo leaves many grey areas, and a lot of things open to interpretation. The interpretation of these grey areas has always been different depending on the day and the person reading the document. We need things to be clearly defined in black and white! I for one do not trust the "we will endeavour" line!
at this point I am thinking better the devil you know.
Its a no for me......
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Guys & Girls,
As for the employment of casuals, be afraid, as it is already happening.
Recruitment and training of casuals has taken place in SYD for "relief crew". Before you say, but we already have relief crew, this is different. These crew are not employed by Virgin Blue, nor do they work for VB on a daily basis (i.e. contracted in a regional port). Yes these guys are Aerocare, but they do not have any experience with VB nor do they work in a ground staff role for VB. They are just on call for sickness and disruptions.... I smell the big red rat! I think that is what we are all afraid of!
As for the employment of casuals, be afraid, as it is already happening.
Recruitment and training of casuals has taken place in SYD for "relief crew". Before you say, but we already have relief crew, this is different. These crew are not employed by Virgin Blue, nor do they work for VB on a daily basis (i.e. contracted in a regional port). Yes these guys are Aerocare, but they do not have any experience with VB nor do they work in a ground staff role for VB. They are just on call for sickness and disruptions.... I smell the big red rat! I think that is what we are all afraid of!
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I am not crew but work for virgin tech. Hope all you girls and guys get it sorted as it affects us as engineers as well.
Missing all you girls at the bottom of the stairs at L2.
Missing all you girls at the bottom of the stairs at L2.
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don't be fooled
Fair Go Hotline is 1300 737 841.
-current good conditions like sick leave and URTIs were contained in awards which unions put a case forward for and were awarded by the government
-under Workchoices all award conditions have been stripped back to the MINIMUM standard of 5 things-see Office of Employment Advocate www.oea.gov.au
-the unions can only hang on to conditions when they are supported by the majority
-once you reject an agreement, all things negotiated are off the table, and the company may start again with the bare MINIMUM literally!
I've seen it happen to all the staff-ground staff & flight attendants-in another airline. Believe me, there's no negotiation because there's no law that says an employer has to bargain in good faith-see www.actu.com.au search 'good faith'.
My advice is get good sound advice and stick together.
-current good conditions like sick leave and URTIs were contained in awards which unions put a case forward for and were awarded by the government
-under Workchoices all award conditions have been stripped back to the MINIMUM standard of 5 things-see Office of Employment Advocate www.oea.gov.au
-the unions can only hang on to conditions when they are supported by the majority
-once you reject an agreement, all things negotiated are off the table, and the company may start again with the bare MINIMUM literally!
I've seen it happen to all the staff-ground staff & flight attendants-in another airline. Believe me, there's no negotiation because there's no law that says an employer has to bargain in good faith-see www.actu.com.au search 'good faith'.
My advice is get good sound advice and stick together.
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well guys, from an ex cabin crew perspective things are looking very interesting for you all.. from what I can gleem I think I'd be giving it the big no too!
I just hope everyone pops on their reality hats, and reads and re-reads..and takes some wordly advice fromy those who have been around a while and know what they status quo has been and could be!
For the newbies to the company -think about it intelligently..it's not just your average job..you have to vote for conditions that will protect your JOB and that is your LIFESTYLE .
Remember you are working with some experienced crew who have fought hard to protect your working conditions in the past.They know the benefits and pitfalls of it all.
I am all for productivity and company success, but not at the expense of its employees.Things have sure changed alot since the day i first set foot on a red jet..
Remember you all deserve only the best ...good luck
I just hope everyone pops on their reality hats, and reads and re-reads..and takes some wordly advice fromy those who have been around a while and know what they status quo has been and could be!
For the newbies to the company -think about it intelligently..it's not just your average job..you have to vote for conditions that will protect your JOB and that is your LIFESTYLE .
Remember you are working with some experienced crew who have fought hard to protect your working conditions in the past.They know the benefits and pitfalls of it all.
I am all for productivity and company success, but not at the expense of its employees.Things have sure changed alot since the day i first set foot on a red jet..
Remember you all deserve only the best ...good luck
Last edited by Wingletts; 12th Mar 2007 at 10:12. Reason: typos
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At Air NZ our policy leaves it up to individual crew ,if we thk its un safe we can sit down and normal stop serving hot drinks but no requirement unless it gets servre then the Capt will make a Pa asking crew to be seated...
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Ol_Shep thankyou for posting that information, but it still does not answer the question of how a currently active certified agreement can be rescinded? My understanding was that if a no vote is returned, everyone remains on the current agreement OR can be offered an AWA if the company went down that path - but you cannot be forced to sign it.
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Strategize
It would not be smart to discuss the options available on a public forum. Ring the Hotline and get advice regarding the Workplace Relations Act 1996 - Application to terminate a pre-reform certified agreements.