BA IR issues
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Personally, I don't think BA crew have been 'sharfted'. I don't think we had a strong enough case to strike if the first place. But, whether you like it or not, BASSA enabled the BA crew to decide for themselves.
Sure, some issues needed addressing (EG300 for instance), but I would have to ask, in all honesty, what main crew member in the UK earns £18600 + generous allowances, earns 3 mbts after most trips, has an 'early report' day off before a 7.30am duty, stays in a hotel during standby AND gets paid £79 for that, gets proper bunk rest with special fluffy sleeping bags etc etc. In comparasion with other airlines, we don't do badly. It's true to say, I joined BA for quality of life. I have no complaints therefore, I don't feel 'sharfted', I don't feel like I'm the 'laughing stock' of the industry as some put it. I feel quite lucky.
Oh, and usually, it works out we only ever do 4 trips per month.
I have plenty of friends in other airlines that work 3 times as hard with very little reward. Life outside of BA is a different story.
Sure, some issues needed addressing (EG300 for instance), but I would have to ask, in all honesty, what main crew member in the UK earns £18600 + generous allowances, earns 3 mbts after most trips, has an 'early report' day off before a 7.30am duty, stays in a hotel during standby AND gets paid £79 for that, gets proper bunk rest with special fluffy sleeping bags etc etc. In comparasion with other airlines, we don't do badly. It's true to say, I joined BA for quality of life. I have no complaints therefore, I don't feel 'sharfted', I don't feel like I'm the 'laughing stock' of the industry as some put it. I feel quite lucky.
Oh, and usually, it works out we only ever do 4 trips per month.
I have plenty of friends in other airlines that work 3 times as hard with very little reward. Life outside of BA is a different story.
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I am post '97 contract and really happy with the deal.
As get smart said, we already had among the best terms & conditions in the industry. I was happy with my lot as it was in terms of money. Not complaining that it's improved now though!
As get smart said, we already had among the best terms & conditions in the industry. I was happy with my lot as it was in terms of money. Not complaining that it's improved now though!
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Originally Posted by Get Smart
Personally, I don't think BA crew have been 'sharfted'....
...Life outside of BA is a different story.
...Life outside of BA is a different story.
LGW crew have been shafted biiiiig time. I urge everybody to spare a thought for us and support us in whatever action we might take now. Blood is boiling at LGW. We all work for BA plc and have been sold down the river once more.
The only positive thing is that finally the EG300 has to recognise what FCO states that is crew cannot fly with ear infections or sinusitis.
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Well said, flybywire!
I am LGW and I've had enough/ I earn on average £1000 a month.
I am quite confused though because at LGW it seems that most people couldn't care less about the strike. They are content with their conditions (the ones who have been there years) and didn't feel the strike concerned them. I have just come back from a trip and I was the only one who felt strongly about the srtike.
What's going on in this mad world?
I am LGW and I've had enough/ I earn on average £1000 a month.
I am quite confused though because at LGW it seems that most people couldn't care less about the strike. They are content with their conditions (the ones who have been there years) and didn't feel the strike concerned them. I have just come back from a trip and I was the only one who felt strongly about the srtike.
What's going on in this mad world?
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Originally Posted by Volant77
They are content with their conditions (the ones who have been there years) and didn't feel the strike concerned them
So much about that EC Art 141 that says that people who do equal jobs and paid by the same source MUST be paid the same money!!!
Disgust, disgust, disgust
By the way, I was against a strike, as I thought that negotiations were the way forward. But the unions have really sold us for pennies so that they could achieve what they wanted most (LHR interests). So no increments for LGW, thank you very much, and yet we all work for BA Plc. I am on a post 1997 payscale and I am fuming.
I think it's time to elect brand new reps for both Bassa and Amicus at LGW. It's time we have some serious people who keep our interests at heart. I just cannot tolerate seeing them (ooooh one of them in particular!!!) at JH happily sipping coffee and not doing anything significantly constructive in times of crisis.
Last edited by flybywire; 1st Feb 2007 at 13:10.
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Volant77, it's not that we don't care. Most of us just didn't feel that the issues brought to the table by bassa had anything to do with us. We've been sold down the river for so many years by bassa at lhr especially, and as much as it's frustrating, there isn't that much we can do about it. We're still fighting for breakfast (whatever bassa says, it's not decided yet).
What you'll have to realise is that we're trying to compete with lo-co's and other airlines at lgw. I don't believe that we should get paid less for that, but it's just the way it is (v annoying I know).
We've been fighting to enter the NSP for years, and we're finally in there, as such. Unions at lhr put as many spanners in the works for years, and now there are still restrictions in place. You know it says we can't do more than 12.5hrs? We can, after negotiations, but that was put into our MOA as lhr were worried we'd come in and "steal" spaces on their duties, an example being not enough wwlhr crew to operate NRT, but plenty from lgw. In theory we could do it, but it would have to be agreed by unions. I just wonder what happened to helping colleagues out, really.
I truly wish there wasn't such a divide. I wish we could all fight for the same issues. I wish this world was fair. However, I'd rather earn a bit less, get my promotion (oh, did that already), and most of all have FUN at lgw. It's all about finding out what's important to you. Basically, if we were to be paid as much as lhr, with the same restrictions as them (cat lounge etc), we wouldn't have a fleet at lgw. Simple as that. Unfortunate, yes.
The last 3 routes have started today, and hopefully we should all see some improvement in our rostas and pay soon. It will get better, Carmen will get better (she's terribly confused at the moment) and soon you'll be having the time of your life.
What you'll have to realise is that we're trying to compete with lo-co's and other airlines at lgw. I don't believe that we should get paid less for that, but it's just the way it is (v annoying I know).
We've been fighting to enter the NSP for years, and we're finally in there, as such. Unions at lhr put as many spanners in the works for years, and now there are still restrictions in place. You know it says we can't do more than 12.5hrs? We can, after negotiations, but that was put into our MOA as lhr were worried we'd come in and "steal" spaces on their duties, an example being not enough wwlhr crew to operate NRT, but plenty from lgw. In theory we could do it, but it would have to be agreed by unions. I just wonder what happened to helping colleagues out, really.
I truly wish there wasn't such a divide. I wish we could all fight for the same issues. I wish this world was fair. However, I'd rather earn a bit less, get my promotion (oh, did that already), and most of all have FUN at lgw. It's all about finding out what's important to you. Basically, if we were to be paid as much as lhr, with the same restrictions as them (cat lounge etc), we wouldn't have a fleet at lgw. Simple as that. Unfortunate, yes.
The last 3 routes have started today, and hopefully we should all see some improvement in our rostas and pay soon. It will get better, Carmen will get better (she's terribly confused at the moment) and soon you'll be having the time of your life.
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Glamgirl, I thought exactly the same as you before I decided to have a family of my own. Now that I am facing this new challenge in my life I have realised that quality of life is important as well. What's the point in going to work if at the end of the day the outgoings are as high as the income?!?
My basic salary, as a new purser, is absolutely ridiculous!! 13k per year? there are main crew on pre 1997 contracts in our fleet who earn much more than that! I do nopt want to earn as much as LHR, our allowances work in a different way, but I just want what is fair! Post 1997 increments for LHR in basic salary....why not for LGW?!?
I just think that this attitude of complacency from some of our colleagues is not very good and BA takes advantage of it. I do not care if we have to compete with low cost airlines, we are NOT a low cost airline and we all work for BA Plc. I know some people are looking more into the EC Art 141 and cannot wait to hear what they have found out. Something is wrong and BA is clearly taking the p
My basic salary, as a new purser, is absolutely ridiculous!! 13k per year? there are main crew on pre 1997 contracts in our fleet who earn much more than that! I do nopt want to earn as much as LHR, our allowances work in a different way, but I just want what is fair! Post 1997 increments for LHR in basic salary....why not for LGW?!?
I just think that this attitude of complacency from some of our colleagues is not very good and BA takes advantage of it. I do not care if we have to compete with low cost airlines, we are NOT a low cost airline and we all work for BA Plc. I know some people are looking more into the EC Art 141 and cannot wait to hear what they have found out. Something is wrong and BA is clearly taking the p
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FBW, in regards to both the increments and law, have a look at ESS forum. It's explained there from our fleet manager. We're just waiting for confirmation about the increments involving LGW.
I'm just wondering about your basic... I got the choice of starting on just over 14k or just over 15k when I got my promotion last year. Just wondering what happened with yours?
I'm just wondering about your basic... I got the choice of starting on just over 14k or just over 15k when I got my promotion last year. Just wondering what happened with yours?
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glamgirl
yes the crew are very ice at lgw and the long haul good but you need money
to pay the bills,go out down route and 1000pds amth for the south east is not a competive salary .easy jet crew are payed a lot more.
yes the crew are very ice at lgw and the long haul good but you need money
to pay the bills,go out down route and 1000pds amth for the south east is not a competive salary .easy jet crew are payed a lot more.
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Originally Posted by Glamgirl
I'm just wondering about your basic... I got the choice of starting on just over 14k or just over 15k when I got my promotion last year. Just wondering what happened with yours?
This is what really annoys me....that some people are valued more than others. It is really unfair and something that, believe me, won't end here.
I just have something a little bit more urgent to deal with these days, but I will get all the legal advice that I can and present the unions (and not just the useless reps!) with the evidence. Or act on my own, I do not care if nobody else wants to support this fact although it would be in the whole CC community's interest!!!
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FBW, I'm confused... I got the impression you've been at LGW for quite a few years. If I'm wrong, I apologise. If you've been with us for a few years, were you EOG or CF? If on "new" contract (last 2-3 years), the basic for purser should be around 13k. However, ex EOG crew (me included) got the choice of 14 or 15k, depending on increments. Basically, if chose 14k, increments eventually go higher than the ones who chose 15k. I think exCF crew can only go on the 15k scale, but I'm not sure. Definately not fair, I agree. If you're on exEOG/CF contract, take it up with the union, your pm, ss, or whoever will listen. If you're on new contract, I don't know what to recommend. I guess it's to make sure that crew who've only been in the company a couple of years (6 months at the mo!!!!
) don't jump the payscale too much, and make crew who've "done their time" peeved off. I don't know, sorry.
In regards to the other issues, are you able to arrange a meeting with SS? I know she talks a lot off oxmanure at times, but it may be helpful. Also, email or call your union tomorrow and ask if you haven't heard anything. At the forum the other day, they said the NSP meeting is happening next week although they want to move it forward...
Pips, I know 1k a month isn't much, I know SOME Easyjet crew earn more. In danger of sounding like a brain washed numptie, you'll have to take the benefits into consideration. I'll give you a few...
Staff travel. We can get cheap (ish) tickets world wide. Easy have the Easy network.
Tax. We get massive tax reductions, Easy don't.
Pay. We get basic+allowances+commission, Easy get basic+sectorpay+commission. They seem like they get more money, but do you really want to rely on your commission and working 6 sectors a day, 6 days a week? They also get on time departure bonus etc, which they lose if even 30 sec late.
Free stuff. Free uniform, free parking. Easy have to pay for both.
Night stops. We get them, Easy rarely do.
Pay rise. Our hourly allowance increases once a year, same with basic. At Easy you could wait for a raise for years, usually only when you get promotion.
I'd recommend for you to chat to some Easy crew (if you haven't already) and ask them how it REALLY is. Not just the money, but the conditions, hours, fatigue, and general happiness. Ask to see a rosta. Why do you think we've got so many exEasy working with us? I've seen some rostas and I wouldn't do that kind of rosta for all the money in the world.
If you still think Easyjet gets a better deal, go ahead and apply. They're looking for more crew. I don't mean to be harsh and horrible about it, but I'd rather you go work for Easy and earn money and be happy than stay with BA and be unhappy and poor if that's how you feel. I would recommend though that you stick around for a bit longer, as the last LH routes came over today, we're starting at least 4 new routes in the summer and bidding should normalise and there should be more work for everyone. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
) don't jump the payscale too much, and make crew who've "done their time" peeved off. I don't know, sorry. In regards to the other issues, are you able to arrange a meeting with SS? I know she talks a lot off oxmanure at times, but it may be helpful. Also, email or call your union tomorrow and ask if you haven't heard anything. At the forum the other day, they said the NSP meeting is happening next week although they want to move it forward...
Pips, I know 1k a month isn't much, I know SOME Easyjet crew earn more. In danger of sounding like a brain washed numptie, you'll have to take the benefits into consideration. I'll give you a few...
Staff travel. We can get cheap (ish) tickets world wide. Easy have the Easy network.
Tax. We get massive tax reductions, Easy don't.
Pay. We get basic+allowances+commission, Easy get basic+sectorpay+commission. They seem like they get more money, but do you really want to rely on your commission and working 6 sectors a day, 6 days a week? They also get on time departure bonus etc, which they lose if even 30 sec late.
Free stuff. Free uniform, free parking. Easy have to pay for both.
Night stops. We get them, Easy rarely do.
Pay rise. Our hourly allowance increases once a year, same with basic. At Easy you could wait for a raise for years, usually only when you get promotion.
I'd recommend for you to chat to some Easy crew (if you haven't already) and ask them how it REALLY is. Not just the money, but the conditions, hours, fatigue, and general happiness. Ask to see a rosta. Why do you think we've got so many exEasy working with us? I've seen some rostas and I wouldn't do that kind of rosta for all the money in the world.
If you still think Easyjet gets a better deal, go ahead and apply. They're looking for more crew. I don't mean to be harsh and horrible about it, but I'd rather you go work for Easy and earn money and be happy than stay with BA and be unhappy and poor if that's how you feel. I would recommend though that you stick around for a bit longer, as the last LH routes came over today, we're starting at least 4 new routes in the summer and bidding should normalise and there should be more work for everyone. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
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Would you please stop saying this "with the new routes we'll earn more money" rubbish. I've been doing only long haaul for the last few months and I haven't earned more at all. If anything I have spent more downroute (only to eat) so I'm even poorer than before.
Astonishing to think that most at LGW don't think that the strike issues applied to us (err, hello?? What about the pension, the EG300??).
Oh and the usual "if you're not happy go and work elsewhere" is such a cheap argument. We are not happy. I am not happy with £1000 a month . So, yes, I will go and work elsewhere soon enough. And lots of us who joined in 2006 will (many have already left). What will happen next? Others will join, and lots of them will leave. Again and again until we get paid better at LGW.
Astonishing to think that most at LGW don't think that the strike issues applied to us (err, hello?? What about the pension, the EG300??).
Oh and the usual "if you're not happy go and work elsewhere" is such a cheap argument. We are not happy. I am not happy with £1000 a month . So, yes, I will go and work elsewhere soon enough. And lots of us who joined in 2006 will (many have already left). What will happen next? Others will join, and lots of them will leave. Again and again until we get paid better at LGW.
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stop ba from shafting lgw
glamgirl
iam sorry but why should i leave i want market rate pay for my role which is not 1000pds amth charters ,easy jet ,zoom, all payed more,vs crew 7 free flts ayr,private medical insurance basic more. can i ask have you only work for ba,
.and this is why lgw is seen as a joke within ba ,it will get better is all lgw say it wont with an attitude like that. that why your t/c are so different from lhr, 9942 is not market rate ,lhr starting 10500 it is just as expensive to live in the south east as it is to live nr lhr.so stop with this attitude it will get better it wont untill we do some thing, stop ba for shafting lgw crew pls.
iam sorry but why should i leave i want market rate pay for my role which is not 1000pds amth charters ,easy jet ,zoom, all payed more,vs crew 7 free flts ayr,private medical insurance basic more. can i ask have you only work for ba,
.and this is why lgw is seen as a joke within ba ,it will get better is all lgw say it wont with an attitude like that. that why your t/c are so different from lhr, 9942 is not market rate ,lhr starting 10500 it is just as expensive to live in the south east as it is to live nr lhr.so stop with this attitude it will get better it wont untill we do some thing, stop ba for shafting lgw crew pls.
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Oh well, I tried... Sorry if me being the eternal optimist offends people, but it's a personality trait, and I can't change it. What you can change though is your job. Call it a cheap shot if you like. Seriously, if you think all other airlines are better to work for, why choose BA? I can't be bothered flying with people who whinge about how bad everything at LGW is. My allowances have definately gone up since long haul started, and I'm baffled that yours haven't. Did you come in via Lhr temp contract?
We at LGW are a community, not just a melting pot of crew. We do care about our t&c's, and don't try to tell me otherwise. If you'd been here as long as some of us have, you know more back ground. Did you know that we've been teetering on the edge of being closed down since way before 9/11? Did you know we don't make a profit? Did you know that our fleet manager actually cares? If you have grievances about your pay and t&c's, talk to your union. That's the only way things can change. Whingeing about it in the smoking area, caff, hotel room or standby room doesn't help and doesn't make change happen. Go to a forum, they're running very frequently at the moment (4th floor). Ask questions then. Arrange a meeting with your pm, fleet manager or whoever can answer your questions. Get some back ground information, put a business head on and then consider your options.
We at LGW are a community, not just a melting pot of crew. We do care about our t&c's, and don't try to tell me otherwise. If you'd been here as long as some of us have, you know more back ground. Did you know that we've been teetering on the edge of being closed down since way before 9/11? Did you know we don't make a profit? Did you know that our fleet manager actually cares? If you have grievances about your pay and t&c's, talk to your union. That's the only way things can change. Whingeing about it in the smoking area, caff, hotel room or standby room doesn't help and doesn't make change happen. Go to a forum, they're running very frequently at the moment (4th floor). Ask questions then. Arrange a meeting with your pm, fleet manager or whoever can answer your questions. Get some back ground information, put a business head on and then consider your options.
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wake up glamgirl
its your very attitude thats allowed lgw to get shafted,i do know the back ground my partner has being at lgw for 6.5yrs so yes i know.the point you make that old chestnut ba never make money out of lgw rubbish if that was the case you would of being out the door so quick your feet wouldnt touch the floor ,you honest think ba would run a loss making op out of lgw think again.you think suzanne stass gives a stuff wrong every penny she save on crew cost all add to her big fat bonus. your comment about crew moaning then that must tell you pepole are just not happy and yes some of the long term crew also .
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The way I look at it I was earning really good money and enjoying among the best t&c's in the industry BEFORE the strike was threatened (I am post '97 crew, LHR WW). Now they have just got better with an above inflation pay rise and extra increments to the basic salary to bring it closer to the old contract. The top of the tier basic for post '97 crew is now higher than the starting salary for Purser so it takes the pressure off needing promotion.
For you guys at LGW, I feel sorry for you. You guys, without a doubt, work the hardest in the company and for the smallest reward. That is wrong.
I couldn't believe it when I read on that BA 'discussion forum' that the extra increments for the post '97 salary scales did not apply to crew at LGW!! However, according to BASSA this was sorted out between the Tony Woodley and Willie Walsh and that LGW crew will now get the extra increments. And at least you guys will be in the NSP so have rights of transfer.
The thing that always amazes me with you guys at LGW (I guess it is thru a sense of pride more than anything) that when you get a bum deal - 3 crew on a 737, not enough crew on the 777 - you will still work your ar~es off to make it a success.
I flew to Geneva ex LGW and couldn't believe my eyes. 3 crew, trolleys were being sorted out seconds after the wheels had left the ground and the crew worked like maniacs to get the service done. But maybe you are shooting yourselves in the foot? Would it not be better for your cause, to set up the trolleys when it is safe to do so, just work efficiently yet calmly and if a third of the passengers don't get a drink and snack, TOUGH! Tell them to complain to BA and maybe then BA will change it if it isn't working. Ditto for your crew/Purser complements on the 777. Just an idea....
For you guys at LGW, I feel sorry for you. You guys, without a doubt, work the hardest in the company and for the smallest reward. That is wrong.
I couldn't believe it when I read on that BA 'discussion forum' that the extra increments for the post '97 salary scales did not apply to crew at LGW!! However, according to BASSA this was sorted out between the Tony Woodley and Willie Walsh and that LGW crew will now get the extra increments. And at least you guys will be in the NSP so have rights of transfer.
The thing that always amazes me with you guys at LGW (I guess it is thru a sense of pride more than anything) that when you get a bum deal - 3 crew on a 737, not enough crew on the 777 - you will still work your ar~es off to make it a success.
I flew to Geneva ex LGW and couldn't believe my eyes. 3 crew, trolleys were being sorted out seconds after the wheels had left the ground and the crew worked like maniacs to get the service done. But maybe you are shooting yourselves in the foot? Would it not be better for your cause, to set up the trolleys when it is safe to do so, just work efficiently yet calmly and if a third of the passengers don't get a drink and snack, TOUGH! Tell them to complain to BA and maybe then BA will change it if it isn't working. Ditto for your crew/Purser complements on the 777. Just an idea....
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Now they have just got better with an above inflation pay rise and extra increments to the basic salary
Would it not be better for your cause, to set up the trolleys when it is safe to do so, just work efficiently yet calmly and if a third of the passengers don't get a drink and snack, TOUGH!
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Originally Posted by keeperboy
But maybe you are shooting yourselves in the foot? Would it not be better for your cause, to set up the trolleys when it is safe to do so, just work efficiently yet calmly and if a third of the passengers don't get a drink and snack, TOUGH! Tell them to complain to BA and maybe then BA will change it if it isn't working. Ditto for your crew/Purser complements on the 777. Just an idea....
However the reason why we do not do what you have suggested (although it was a thought that was provoked a long time ago and that everyone more or less has had at least once since!) is that at the end of the day we always go the extra 1000 mile for our passengers. At the end of the day we fly for our passengers and for ourselves, and not for bloody BA believe it or not.
The best satisfaction of our job at LGW is to see people walking off feeling they have been looked after very well. Many people tell me they choose to fly from LGW for that specific reason and some of them are "regulars" who we all know!! Take that away and, since we do not have any satisfaction from the remuneration we get, I personally (and with me many others) would feel very down and would not think about it twice to change job.
I go to work to give my contribution to society and to feel useful, and doing things slowly only to show BA that we cannot possibly do it would simply make me feel useless.
The result is that we work very hard, rarely with any breaks
but we really do not feel like making our passengers lose out on anything just because our airline has become complete and utter c and treats us like ignorant and easily replaceable people.