JetStar Cabin Crew EBA
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Dont know how much truth is to it but Ive heard around the place that the company cannot offer us individual contracts unless 50% of the company votes agreeing to individual contracts, which would never happen. Can anyone confirm this? Surely the union lawyers wouldve let them know what WorkChoices means for us by now.
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BOC for no extra money., Youve got to be joking????
FA last month ex SEQ crews to CHC and pax home isnt this International flying>???? Well how can we do this on a domestic agreement. Still no stance from the FAAA. Do we or dont we . If the answer is yes we can ,well then we can fly international as well then hey . Honolulu, Bali, Phuket. Think long and hard people about voting this up as we could fly international for the same money we are on now????? Imagine buying food in Tokyo on an overnight allowance of 83.00AUD wouldnt even buy a bowl of rice........
We still say NONONONONONO
Cant afford a Guiness JQfarQ
FA last month ex SEQ crews to CHC and pax home isnt this International flying>???? Well how can we do this on a domestic agreement. Still no stance from the FAAA. Do we or dont we . If the answer is yes we can ,well then we can fly international as well then hey . Honolulu, Bali, Phuket. Think long and hard people about voting this up as we could fly international for the same money we are on now????? Imagine buying food in Tokyo on an overnight allowance of 83.00AUD wouldnt even buy a bowl of rice........
We still say NONONONONONO
Cant afford a Guiness JQfarQ
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Can't afford a guiness???
Just ask a QF hostie or DJ hostie to buy you one!!!
I seriously can't believe that anyone in their right mind would agree to work more hours, work ALL through the night and have other conditions eroded.......and agree to do it for........NOTHING!!!!!!!!
Are you guys bloody demented??????
Can't wait to get your opinions on this once you have completed your 4th BOC in a row. 2040hrs till 0545hrs.......and thats just ex bne!! Worse for the mel crew.
Have a good think about this guys........really!!! Even if we vote this up management will screw us so voting it down really isn't that bad an option!!!
Have to go now..............good friend from virgin just got me a guiness!!
Make that tree of them......lads
XX
Just ask a QF hostie or DJ hostie to buy you one!!!
I seriously can't believe that anyone in their right mind would agree to work more hours, work ALL through the night and have other conditions eroded.......and agree to do it for........NOTHING!!!!!!!!
Are you guys bloody demented??????
Can't wait to get your opinions on this once you have completed your 4th BOC in a row. 2040hrs till 0545hrs.......and thats just ex bne!! Worse for the mel crew.
Have a good think about this guys........really!!! Even if we vote this up management will screw us so voting it down really isn't that bad an option!!!
Have to go now..............good friend from virgin just got me a guiness!!
Make that tree of them......lads
XX
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Pilots deal got up? Their deal was worse than the FA's... Me is begginning to dread that you guys don't have a chance 
Far TOO MANY brown-nosers and ignorant flighties at The Star, unfortunately. Sad.
I wish something could stop this injustice - this rot. I really hope for you guys that it turns out for the good - coz that is all you deserve. Don't let these dwarf-like and 'bleach blonde-headed mid-life crisis' 'management' types tell you otherwise.
Stick it up 'em! Vote NO!
Far TOO MANY brown-nosers and ignorant flighties at The Star, unfortunately. Sad.I wish something could stop this injustice - this rot. I really hope for you guys that it turns out for the good - coz that is all you deserve. Don't let these dwarf-like and 'bleach blonde-headed mid-life crisis' 'management' types tell you otherwise.
Stick it up 'em! Vote NO!
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Informed Choice
Workchoices is sending me out some info - the all Australian States are still battling it out whether to adopt. There is no 20th March deadline/start date....... Get it right FAAA...... It's up to us to find out the facts and make an informed decision. The employment Ombudsmen couldn't believe the FAAA or JQ's threat tactics. A No vote simply means we remain on the same EBA until another is negotiated, Darwin, Perth go as planned, under our existing EBA - if the FAAA refuse to re-negotiate and our reps have resigned, a suggestion:TWU are very strong and am sure would negotiate on the JQ FA's behalf - do we have any other FA's willing to bat for us???? From previous threads, I am sure we have a list of negotiating points.
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If you feel so strongly (as many people do) about this EBA to consult Government agencies, then why don't you confront the FAAA about these very points you raised? That way, you could get an explanation/reasoning behind the deadline that's been publicised.
What makes you believe that EITHER would occur? Is it really in the FAAA's best interests to walk away?
And as for our reps - these poor bastards can't win either way! They give up that much of their spare time to help out as many crew as physically possible for what...thanks? Yeah - right! And if they resign, who takes over?
Being a rep is a poisoned chalice. No one thanks you for your work, and whatever you do isn't enough. Very easy to stand on the sidelines and point at others. The question is - what are YOU going to do about it? Did you put your hand up for a role during the last round of FAAA nominations/elections a couple of months ago?
If we have crew who won't strike whilst under the FAAA, what makes you think the TWU would do things differently/better?
The TWU hold more strikes within QF than any other union. As crew, we have that many people who WON'T take industrial action NOW...what difference will joining the TWU make?
More to the point - what EXPERIENCE does the TWU have in dealing with Flight Attendants? I've got the answer - NONE! They tried it once with a rebel group of FA's at another airline years ago and it all ended in tears. Reason - they just didn't appreciate the specific needs of our workgroup.
As for other FA's going into bat for us - I don't recall a FLOOD of nominations for representative positions at the last election for FAAA reps.
I'm sure your intentions are good OTA, but they're misguided.
Our crew are not united - sadly.
The FAAA reps do a bloody hard job under very demanding circumstances. Relationships have fallen apart based on the amount of work these guys put in.
Every EBA time there's a chorus of people who become experts on the subject of Industrial Relations Law, and come up with all sorts of ideas. Once EBA is over, the chorus silences for another 3 years. Unless you're willing to take up the role of a rep to the extent that our current reps do, you're not helping matters.
I'm just sick to death of people poking their fingers at our reps for everything that they perceive to be wrong with this airline.
Remember - a union is only as strong as its membership. Doesn't matter if it's the FAAA or any other union - fact is, we ARE the union.
If you feel so strongly (as many people do) about this EBA to consult Government agencies, then why don't you confront the FAAA about these very points you raised? That way, you could get an explanation/reasoning behind the deadline that's been publicised.
" if the FAAA refuse to re-negotiate and our reps have resigned"
And as for our reps - these poor bastards can't win either way! They give up that much of their spare time to help out as many crew as physically possible for what...thanks? Yeah - right! And if they resign, who takes over?
Being a rep is a poisoned chalice. No one thanks you for your work, and whatever you do isn't enough. Very easy to stand on the sidelines and point at others. The question is - what are YOU going to do about it? Did you put your hand up for a role during the last round of FAAA nominations/elections a couple of months ago?
"TWU are very strong and am sure would negotiate on the JQ FA's behalf - do we have any other FA's willing to bat for us????"
The TWU hold more strikes within QF than any other union. As crew, we have that many people who WON'T take industrial action NOW...what difference will joining the TWU make?
More to the point - what EXPERIENCE does the TWU have in dealing with Flight Attendants? I've got the answer - NONE! They tried it once with a rebel group of FA's at another airline years ago and it all ended in tears. Reason - they just didn't appreciate the specific needs of our workgroup.
As for other FA's going into bat for us - I don't recall a FLOOD of nominations for representative positions at the last election for FAAA reps.
I'm sure your intentions are good OTA, but they're misguided.
Our crew are not united - sadly.
The FAAA reps do a bloody hard job under very demanding circumstances. Relationships have fallen apart based on the amount of work these guys put in.
Every EBA time there's a chorus of people who become experts on the subject of Industrial Relations Law, and come up with all sorts of ideas. Once EBA is over, the chorus silences for another 3 years. Unless you're willing to take up the role of a rep to the extent that our current reps do, you're not helping matters.
I'm just sick to death of people poking their fingers at our reps for everything that they perceive to be wrong with this airline.
Remember - a union is only as strong as its membership. Doesn't matter if it's the FAAA or any other union - fact is, we ARE the union.
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The FAAA delegates do deserve appreciation and respect for the work they put in. And they are also an easy target when it comes to venting frustration about work conditions, especially when cabin crew are involved. I certainly don't have the stomache for the confrontation they deal with both behind closed doors with the company or on line with their fellow work mates.
Having said that after yesterday's roadshow and the misinformation that surrounds this EBA, I am more than a little disappointed with the "wave the white flag" mentality that is being presented to us.
At no time through out this process has the FAAA highlighted the fact that you will be able to sign-off in the am and sign-on in the pm. No big deal I hear you say? Try having a life when you fly back of the clock, have to try to sleep during the day and then sign-on for a duty that night. And I know both the company and the FAAA are telling me they have limitations on rostered BOC. But if I do nominate live to try to earn a decent living then I can be assigned more BOC on those days as well. And according to the FAAA we are own worst enemy as we try to earn more money from this system. I agree, I just can't pay my mortgage otherwise.
The argument from both AJ and the union that the schedule does not have that many BOC duties ( "I don't know what all the fuss is about" ) is just ridiculous. In the past year alone JQ has had growth above and beyond all expectation. New routes, new ports, new schedules. I'm not stupid enough to think that in 2 years time under this proposed EBA all those QF BOC duties won't be coming to us. Try to remember the fact that we are QF group and we are Dixon's project and if he can make a dollar more by using us instead of mainline he will. It's not aceptable to be working a BOC shift and not be compensated. It's not about the dollar value it's about the value of your home life and how much your work affects that.
In the end whatever we agree to will be used for the company's benefit. It's all about the business and according to the company there are plenty of people behind us waiting to get in. It doesn't make it fair, it doesn't make it right, it's just an indication of how quickly our conditions will go down the tiolet to ensure a healthy profit at the end of the year.
JQ flight attendants, we are not Ryan Air, we are not Europe or Asia, we are Australian and we have the right to stand up for what we believe to be a fair pay for a fair days work. JQ management compare us to other low cost operators worlwide, but our standars of living and work practices our worlds apart. Perhaps we could save JQ some more money by replacing our own management with a team from Calcutta, apparently they don't cost much either!
Vote NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Having said that after yesterday's roadshow and the misinformation that surrounds this EBA, I am more than a little disappointed with the "wave the white flag" mentality that is being presented to us.
At no time through out this process has the FAAA highlighted the fact that you will be able to sign-off in the am and sign-on in the pm. No big deal I hear you say? Try having a life when you fly back of the clock, have to try to sleep during the day and then sign-on for a duty that night. And I know both the company and the FAAA are telling me they have limitations on rostered BOC. But if I do nominate live to try to earn a decent living then I can be assigned more BOC on those days as well. And according to the FAAA we are own worst enemy as we try to earn more money from this system. I agree, I just can't pay my mortgage otherwise.
The argument from both AJ and the union that the schedule does not have that many BOC duties ( "I don't know what all the fuss is about" ) is just ridiculous. In the past year alone JQ has had growth above and beyond all expectation. New routes, new ports, new schedules. I'm not stupid enough to think that in 2 years time under this proposed EBA all those QF BOC duties won't be coming to us. Try to remember the fact that we are QF group and we are Dixon's project and if he can make a dollar more by using us instead of mainline he will. It's not aceptable to be working a BOC shift and not be compensated. It's not about the dollar value it's about the value of your home life and how much your work affects that.
In the end whatever we agree to will be used for the company's benefit. It's all about the business and according to the company there are plenty of people behind us waiting to get in. It doesn't make it fair, it doesn't make it right, it's just an indication of how quickly our conditions will go down the tiolet to ensure a healthy profit at the end of the year.
JQ flight attendants, we are not Ryan Air, we are not Europe or Asia, we are Australian and we have the right to stand up for what we believe to be a fair pay for a fair days work. JQ management compare us to other low cost operators worlwide, but our standars of living and work practices our worlds apart. Perhaps we could save JQ some more money by replacing our own management with a team from Calcutta, apparently they don't cost much either!
Vote NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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I use to be a union rep for my ex-airline (not JQ) and can say it is a massive challenge at EBA time. What all the other crew don't see, is the behind the scenes work and negs that go into forming a proposed EBA - it is a massive exercise.
In-fact hours, if not days can be spent discussing one word, in one clause that can make huge differences to the outcomes for crew.
What I will say though is that crew have to be the driving force behind their Reps - as Reps are there to Represent the crew. If you have a large amount of issues, then you need to voice them to your Reps, who if they have enough people with the same issues, can then change their own tactics.
It's worth remembering that with hundreds of crew, you'll get people who want hundreds of different things. Sadly that isn't possible, Reps and the FAAA (or whatever union) can only propose so many things to the company and at the end of the day, only a few generalised things will be proposed.
Finally, it's worth considering a few points...
1. The only way for a successful outcome to any EBA talks, is through presenting a united front to the company. You have already failed. Any JQ management reading this board has just seen that some crew are not happy with the union, their reps and what they are doing. This creates a gray area that the company can expliot through their communications to the crew. Whether or not you get everything you want isn't the concern, because here in the real world, you won't always get your way. You need to consider every FA in your organisation, not just yourself when you make a informed decision to vote. YOU MUST PRESENT A UNITED FRONT, YOU MUST!
2. Of course both sides will use scare tactics - the union will threaten protected industrial action and the company will threaten tactics too. Welcome to the real world - you have to be informed and make an informed choice about what is a scare tactic and what is a fact.
3. What you have to realise, is that you won't run a mile with every EBA - you'll only run a few feet. Over the years though, you'll run your mile and more. The whole point of an EBA is to improve things overtime. Any improvement is better then none at all.
4. Both sides have to give and take - an EBA has to be win/win for the employees and company. You can't expect a pay rise, allowance increase etc etc unless you are giving too. You and your reps need to identify a balance between giving and taking and work out where to draw the line.
5. You need to communicate to your reps what your "must have" items are as a group. These are the items, that each and every FA would be willing to strike over. For my talks, this was our minimum rest - we would not have allowed a reduction in our minumum rest, we would have walked away. These are the point/s that effect your life the most, that would have the biggest impact on your work/life balance and quality of life.
6. The worst thing about FA's is they only ever see the $$. DO NOT vote on something just based on the money. Read the EBA carefully, ask questions, consider your work/life balance. Money isn't everything.
Finally, you have to think about the future. You should never, ever vote on something because you have been forced to, feel forced to or have your jobs threatened. Youare voting on something that has the potential to change not only your jobs and lives, but the jobs and lives of hundreds, if not thoasands of people in the years to come. You have a duty to leave the company, in a better way then you found it - you have a duty to ensure that those whoare with the company after you, have better terms and conditions then those before you - this progression is vital in securing the terms and conditions of Australian workers in the years to come.
So many mistakes have been made by unions in the past, that have allowed for overseas bases and indeed JQ to degrade the conditions of airline employees in Australia. JQ pilots have just voted in an EBA that has essentially degraded the conditions of pilot employment for generations - you don't have to follow them down that path - you can secure the future if you wish.
Finally, from what I have seen in the past, protected industrial action achieves little for both sides. The company loses money, you lose money but moreover the support from others (including the public) quickly disappears. The most successful outcomes, come from healthy and open discussions and relationships between the union, their customers (YOU!) and the company. Remember that.
You are at a turning point in the evolution of Jetstar - which path you take is upto you - you can live a divided existence and achieve nothing (just look at QF LH and the QF thread on this board, if you want an example) or united you can achieve something for the future.
Take this post however you like, but from an outsider, it is very obvious that you need to regroup, be united and become more educated about what your EBA and indeed EBA talks are really about.
In-fact hours, if not days can be spent discussing one word, in one clause that can make huge differences to the outcomes for crew.
What I will say though is that crew have to be the driving force behind their Reps - as Reps are there to Represent the crew. If you have a large amount of issues, then you need to voice them to your Reps, who if they have enough people with the same issues, can then change their own tactics.
It's worth remembering that with hundreds of crew, you'll get people who want hundreds of different things. Sadly that isn't possible, Reps and the FAAA (or whatever union) can only propose so many things to the company and at the end of the day, only a few generalised things will be proposed.
Finally, it's worth considering a few points...
1. The only way for a successful outcome to any EBA talks, is through presenting a united front to the company. You have already failed. Any JQ management reading this board has just seen that some crew are not happy with the union, their reps and what they are doing. This creates a gray area that the company can expliot through their communications to the crew. Whether or not you get everything you want isn't the concern, because here in the real world, you won't always get your way. You need to consider every FA in your organisation, not just yourself when you make a informed decision to vote. YOU MUST PRESENT A UNITED FRONT, YOU MUST!
2. Of course both sides will use scare tactics - the union will threaten protected industrial action and the company will threaten tactics too. Welcome to the real world - you have to be informed and make an informed choice about what is a scare tactic and what is a fact.
3. What you have to realise, is that you won't run a mile with every EBA - you'll only run a few feet. Over the years though, you'll run your mile and more. The whole point of an EBA is to improve things overtime. Any improvement is better then none at all.
4. Both sides have to give and take - an EBA has to be win/win for the employees and company. You can't expect a pay rise, allowance increase etc etc unless you are giving too. You and your reps need to identify a balance between giving and taking and work out where to draw the line.
5. You need to communicate to your reps what your "must have" items are as a group. These are the items, that each and every FA would be willing to strike over. For my talks, this was our minimum rest - we would not have allowed a reduction in our minumum rest, we would have walked away. These are the point/s that effect your life the most, that would have the biggest impact on your work/life balance and quality of life.
6. The worst thing about FA's is they only ever see the $$. DO NOT vote on something just based on the money. Read the EBA carefully, ask questions, consider your work/life balance. Money isn't everything.
Finally, you have to think about the future. You should never, ever vote on something because you have been forced to, feel forced to or have your jobs threatened. Youare voting on something that has the potential to change not only your jobs and lives, but the jobs and lives of hundreds, if not thoasands of people in the years to come. You have a duty to leave the company, in a better way then you found it - you have a duty to ensure that those whoare with the company after you, have better terms and conditions then those before you - this progression is vital in securing the terms and conditions of Australian workers in the years to come.
So many mistakes have been made by unions in the past, that have allowed for overseas bases and indeed JQ to degrade the conditions of airline employees in Australia. JQ pilots have just voted in an EBA that has essentially degraded the conditions of pilot employment for generations - you don't have to follow them down that path - you can secure the future if you wish.
Finally, from what I have seen in the past, protected industrial action achieves little for both sides. The company loses money, you lose money but moreover the support from others (including the public) quickly disappears. The most successful outcomes, come from healthy and open discussions and relationships between the union, their customers (YOU!) and the company. Remember that.
You are at a turning point in the evolution of Jetstar - which path you take is upto you - you can live a divided existence and achieve nothing (just look at QF LH and the QF thread on this board, if you want an example) or united you can achieve something for the future.
Take this post however you like, but from an outsider, it is very obvious that you need to regroup, be united and become more educated about what your EBA and indeed EBA talks are really about.
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It's great to hear that a lot of you are so passionate about your EBA, it's an important factor for the next three years of your working life. However many who have posted here dont seem to understand the reason of EBA. The post by "overhere" is pretty much spot on. You cannot get upset because you didn't get what you wanted, we will never obtain that luxury. If we did we will all be out of a job as businesses just wont survive. I'm sure you all would have had the opportunity to input suggestions, demands etc but crew don't think alike when negotiating an EBA. Some conditions are great for some crew, but not for others. Some issues are a priority for some but not for others. Unfortunately the airline industry is following other industries and are tightening their belts and saving money is the number one priority. This is not the glamourous, high paid job that it used to be, and we have to realise this. One thing to remember is we are not as valued as we like to think we are. We are disposable and replaceable, very easily. For every one of us there are hundreds who will take our place and airlines know this. I work for AO and have just gone through what you are going through and understand what you are all up against. We are low cost carriers, set up ONLY to reduce operational costs and in J* position to compete with DJ. If we are not achieving the results expected by our parent (which we all are) they will get rid of us. Expect very little from your EBA and renegotiation will achieve nothing major. I hate to say this but just be thankful you are on the conditions you are. The industry in Australia is following those in the UK and US. Casual employment will increase, individual contracts will become the norm and that is the future of this industry whether we like it or not. I am 100% in favour of you demanding what you want, hey we did, but don't get upset when you dont get it. It's your choice, job or no job. I came from an airline that had great conditions, the FA's pretty much got what they wanted and we were paid extremely well for what we did,
but look what happened, no job. (Not blaming FA's, it was bad management). All your comments in this forum are great, some emotional, but what are you doing about it. If you aren't happy voice your opinion to those that can forward your concerns (believe me, there are many who can get issues off thier chest here but wont bring them up to their reps). You cannot get sacked for your opinions. After reading all the posts here (and through experience) I have a few comments....
*Don't be persuaded by other FA's to vote YES or NO, this is YOUR choice. Some will say they are voting NO to fit in but when it comes to the crunch they will vote YES because they dont want disruption or fear consequences.
*Striking within the Qantas Group will not achieve anything but a few disruptions. MAM has the contract to provide casual Flight Attendants to Qantas. There are hundreds on the list who are desperate and willing to fly under any condition. They want your job. They can become A320 endorsed in one or two days. The disruption will certainly annoy the company but as I said, we are replaceable. Remember, you don't get paid for strike days and someone else is doing your flying and you still wont get what you want.
*BOC flying, one of the first things you would have been told at your initial seminar is airlines operate 24/7/365 and you will be expected to work odd hours. You are here now because you accepted that fact. (if you didn't know that you are in the wrong industry and if you were concerned about it why didn't you bring that up at the interview, again you had the choice). There are no penalty rates for working Xmas or holidays etc as every day is the same for an airline. This is another individual issue, works for some, doesnt for others.
*You may work for a low cost airline but there is no such thing as a low cost employee so dont think you are. Compared to mainline you are paid considerably less but this is the reason you were created. They are overpaid. My last tax return at my previous airline saw me paid $68,000 plus allowances of up to $20,000 pa. Even I think thats ridiculous. And where did I end up, no job!! The pay structure in regards to our industry needs renewing. We all do the same job and the domestic crew work a hell of a lot harder than international crew (regardless of which airline). Unfortunately a 3% increase is all you will ever get, thats accross the board, they wont budge on that so concentrate on other matters. We are the new breed and just have to accept that. There should be a set award for FA's regarding pay. Regional flyers earn much less than we do but still do the same job.
*JetStar flying NZ - I think you will find this classed as regional flying. If this is not in your award STOP now. Qantas domestic crew are now operating "regional" flights including HongKong, Singapore. From feedback from crew they only get their DTA, not international allowances. It is allowed under the EBA. Before you sign, think what your international limitations are. When AO started we could only fly max 4 hrs time change from port (not flight time). This has now been changed in the new EBA to worldwide.
*Remember, if you do decide to strike you wont get much backing from QF mainline crew. In an industry where we need it we wont get the support we need. You are a threat to them so why would they support you.
*Lastly, you accepted this job "as is" and were happy to do so. A high turnover of staff is something the company likes, remember when discussing your EBA they dont care if you stay or leave. Unfortunately we just fill a position and that position can be filled immediately. If the company offered you an individual contract at the start how many of you would have said NO? Probably not many at all because we want to fly and will do anything to get in. Just dont expect conditions that have taken years and years to negotiate. The industry has changed.
but look what happened, no job. (Not blaming FA's, it was bad management). All your comments in this forum are great, some emotional, but what are you doing about it. If you aren't happy voice your opinion to those that can forward your concerns (believe me, there are many who can get issues off thier chest here but wont bring them up to their reps). You cannot get sacked for your opinions. After reading all the posts here (and through experience) I have a few comments....
*Don't be persuaded by other FA's to vote YES or NO, this is YOUR choice. Some will say they are voting NO to fit in but when it comes to the crunch they will vote YES because they dont want disruption or fear consequences.
*Striking within the Qantas Group will not achieve anything but a few disruptions. MAM has the contract to provide casual Flight Attendants to Qantas. There are hundreds on the list who are desperate and willing to fly under any condition. They want your job. They can become A320 endorsed in one or two days. The disruption will certainly annoy the company but as I said, we are replaceable. Remember, you don't get paid for strike days and someone else is doing your flying and you still wont get what you want.
*BOC flying, one of the first things you would have been told at your initial seminar is airlines operate 24/7/365 and you will be expected to work odd hours. You are here now because you accepted that fact. (if you didn't know that you are in the wrong industry and if you were concerned about it why didn't you bring that up at the interview, again you had the choice). There are no penalty rates for working Xmas or holidays etc as every day is the same for an airline. This is another individual issue, works for some, doesnt for others.
*You may work for a low cost airline but there is no such thing as a low cost employee so dont think you are. Compared to mainline you are paid considerably less but this is the reason you were created. They are overpaid. My last tax return at my previous airline saw me paid $68,000 plus allowances of up to $20,000 pa. Even I think thats ridiculous. And where did I end up, no job!! The pay structure in regards to our industry needs renewing. We all do the same job and the domestic crew work a hell of a lot harder than international crew (regardless of which airline). Unfortunately a 3% increase is all you will ever get, thats accross the board, they wont budge on that so concentrate on other matters. We are the new breed and just have to accept that. There should be a set award for FA's regarding pay. Regional flyers earn much less than we do but still do the same job.
*JetStar flying NZ - I think you will find this classed as regional flying. If this is not in your award STOP now. Qantas domestic crew are now operating "regional" flights including HongKong, Singapore. From feedback from crew they only get their DTA, not international allowances. It is allowed under the EBA. Before you sign, think what your international limitations are. When AO started we could only fly max 4 hrs time change from port (not flight time). This has now been changed in the new EBA to worldwide.
*Remember, if you do decide to strike you wont get much backing from QF mainline crew. In an industry where we need it we wont get the support we need. You are a threat to them so why would they support you.
*Lastly, you accepted this job "as is" and were happy to do so. A high turnover of staff is something the company likes, remember when discussing your EBA they dont care if you stay or leave. Unfortunately we just fill a position and that position can be filled immediately. If the company offered you an individual contract at the start how many of you would have said NO? Probably not many at all because we want to fly and will do anything to get in. Just dont expect conditions that have taken years and years to negotiate. The industry has changed.
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To the Unions:
I accept that the unions have worked long and hard to achieve this EBA....Thank you for your efforts. As you said it is unpaid and in your own time.... I think you should spend more time with yoru family.... I VOTE NO to Leave bank......I read the last news letter that said to thank the union delegates... Thanks,,, Thanks for allowing me to work longer hours for less pay and for allowing Bankruptcy to knock at my front door. I am sorry but the EBA is a farce. You must admit that it is rubbish so WHY ENDORSE IT....
It is very simple ,,, When Jetstar management present a crap EBA you say "NO" Unacceptable....
To Jetstar Cabin Crew:
VOTE NO and lets strike..... I don't want to be a modern day Norma Rae but for F&^% sake lets grow some balls and fight Jetstar.... I am not scared of "Management" and I use that term loosely...What will they do fire us all ... Good do it I could use the redundancy package
I hope AJ and the gang are on my AVV flights.... I will invite them to the galley for a chat.....
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
I accept that the unions have worked long and hard to achieve this EBA....Thank you for your efforts. As you said it is unpaid and in your own time.... I think you should spend more time with yoru family.... I VOTE NO to Leave bank......I read the last news letter that said to thank the union delegates... Thanks,,, Thanks for allowing me to work longer hours for less pay and for allowing Bankruptcy to knock at my front door. I am sorry but the EBA is a farce. You must admit that it is rubbish so WHY ENDORSE IT....
It is very simple ,,, When Jetstar management present a crap EBA you say "NO" Unacceptable....
To Jetstar Cabin Crew:
VOTE NO and lets strike..... I don't want to be a modern day Norma Rae but for F&^% sake lets grow some balls and fight Jetstar.... I am not scared of "Management" and I use that term loosely...What will they do fire us all ... Good do it I could use the redundancy package
I hope AJ and the gang are on my AVV flights.... I will invite them to the galley for a chat.....
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
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???
I imagine most contributors are JQ FA's who want to make a difference, not sweep things under the carpet or play devils advocate. This forum is to make a difference, exchange constructive ideas. I have never bagged any reps - they are to be applauded - my point was that many will resign and we need leadership. We also need clear, black and white facts, not grey, fear driven "we are stupid customer service driven , kind people who will be bullied into not thinking for ourselves". There are people who will put their hand up.
Why does industrial action keep coming up?? Anyone talked to the engineers lately?? Work to rule is what we should be doing now - where does it state to do 'hot turnoarounds' , emptying bins etc, etc.. .....??? Fair is Fair.
I have spoken to FAAA about Workchoices - Workchoices say one thing, FAAA say another - THERE IS NO 20TH MARCH DEADLINE.......
Which airline???
OK - How can we make an informed choice? How can we become more united? Positive input - any suggestions?
Why does industrial action keep coming up?? Anyone talked to the engineers lately?? Work to rule is what we should be doing now - where does it state to do 'hot turnoarounds' , emptying bins etc, etc.. .....??? Fair is Fair.
I have spoken to FAAA about Workchoices - Workchoices say one thing, FAAA say another - THERE IS NO 20TH MARCH DEADLINE.......
More to the point - what EXPERIENCE does the TWU have in dealing with Flight Attendants? I've got the answer - NONE! They tried it once with a rebel group of FA's at another airline years ago and it all ended in tears. Reason - they just didn't appreciate the specific needs of our workgroup
OK - How can we make an informed choice? How can we become more united? Positive input - any suggestions?
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"I VOTE NO to Leave bank......I read the last news letter that said to thank the union delegates... Thanks,,, Thanks for allowing me to work longer hours for less pay and for allowing Bankruptcy to knock at my front door."
Why would you penalise the very people who need these days to represent crew at disciplinaries, sick leave meetings, attend other meetings of importance to crew, etc? What does this achieve? And who does it help?
You don't agree with the EBA - fine, vote No. But don't penalise the very people who volunteer their time to protect and help fellow crew like yourself.
"There are people who will put their hand up."
We've had two team co-ordinators in my time here (5 years +) and the delegates haven't changed in the last 2 years. No one has put their hand up other than those we all know as our reps.
Funny how when things hit the fan, people all of a sudden put their hand up during EBA - not, of course, during the less glamorous events like people getting sacked, threatened at meetings, monitoring roster builds, and so on.
"Which airline???"
"How can we become more united? Positive input - any suggestions?"
Educate the youngies on the details and specifics perhaps, and ENCOURAGE them to see things our way?
Ansett and Australian had their fair share of young crew who saw the light thanks to the educating efforts of senior crew. Surely we could do the same!
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EBA Roadshow
Well I just got back from the EBA roadshow in Brisbane tonight. Unfortunately only 12 flighties bothered turning up, and as for the afternoon session in the crew room, even fewer. Is it that people are all talk and will do exactly what is expected of them, and vote yes, or do they not feel the need to use their time partaking in work activities outside of work hours. Only time will tell.
Word around is that Newcastle is happy, Adelaide are all too new to know better, Sydney isnt much better than SEQ and Im sure itll be all lovely up in Cairns.
Anyhow, the company was alot more aggressive than I had expected, and upon questioning from the crew they would dance about a topic until put on the spot. They definately know what they are doing, managing to avoid the point and trying to emphasising their own agenda. When put on the spot about individual contracts they said they didnt want to do it, they want us to accept the EBA, but they would never completely rule it out. They were pretty adamant that if we do say no they will not offer anything better, they will come back with the same offer again and it will just turn into a nasty back and forth. And as for the union, apparently their lawyers dont have the information I had hoped to receive tonight, nor will they until the legislation comes into effect and they can watch the effects. They are very sure about their Yes vote recommendation, mainly because of the uncertainty, and also because they dont believe we are showing a united front and the company knows it and arent afraid of what we will do.
Oh and for those of you attending future roadshows, they have a print out of this topic so dont be surprised if a post you have made is used as an example by the union reps.
Word around is that Newcastle is happy, Adelaide are all too new to know better, Sydney isnt much better than SEQ and Im sure itll be all lovely up in Cairns.
Anyhow, the company was alot more aggressive than I had expected, and upon questioning from the crew they would dance about a topic until put on the spot. They definately know what they are doing, managing to avoid the point and trying to emphasising their own agenda. When put on the spot about individual contracts they said they didnt want to do it, they want us to accept the EBA, but they would never completely rule it out. They were pretty adamant that if we do say no they will not offer anything better, they will come back with the same offer again and it will just turn into a nasty back and forth. And as for the union, apparently their lawyers dont have the information I had hoped to receive tonight, nor will they until the legislation comes into effect and they can watch the effects. They are very sure about their Yes vote recommendation, mainly because of the uncertainty, and also because they dont believe we are showing a united front and the company knows it and arent afraid of what we will do.
Oh and for those of you attending future roadshows, they have a print out of this topic so dont be surprised if a post you have made is used as an example by the union reps.
Last edited by JQchick; 9th Mar 2006 at 01:56.
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JQ EBA Roadshow
Well, thanks for inviting management back into the meeting JQChick..i'm sure they appreciate your secretarial minutes! The FAAA aren't the only ones who read forums...
Shame the Union couldn't provide you with the information you so desired...just exactly what questions did you want answered tonight??Can't seem to recall.. oh that's right...you're the one who sat there MUTE..didn't utter a single word...!!! Hows that for united we stand!
To quote a previous post of yours:
"I hope people do stand up for themselves and get a better deal for us. rumour has it we will be getting a draft soon for the EBA, not sure what to expect, once we get it Im sure there will be a thread started talking about how screwed we're going to be."
Didn't see u stand up at all and voice any concerns, or show your peers any support!! Bit too aggresive for you JQChick-(en)??..pretty quick to criticise others..oh well, at least you've given the JQ 'powers that be' a bit of a laugh at our expense, not to mention an ego boost..mentioning names and all!!
you can probably take a bow for it too...not too discreet are you..hmmm...maybe your pretty gutsy after all..
Shame the Union couldn't provide you with the information you so desired...just exactly what questions did you want answered tonight??Can't seem to recall.. oh that's right...you're the one who sat there MUTE..didn't utter a single word...!!! Hows that for united we stand!
To quote a previous post of yours:
"I hope people do stand up for themselves and get a better deal for us. rumour has it we will be getting a draft soon for the EBA, not sure what to expect, once we get it Im sure there will be a thread started talking about how screwed we're going to be."
Didn't see u stand up at all and voice any concerns, or show your peers any support!! Bit too aggresive for you JQChick-(en)??..pretty quick to criticise others..oh well, at least you've given the JQ 'powers that be' a bit of a laugh at our expense, not to mention an ego boost..mentioning names and all!!
you can probably take a bow for it too...not too discreet are you..hmmm...maybe your pretty gutsy after all..
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Divide and conquer - why is it so easy?
Because with so many bases we have no real idea of what's going on in each other's backyard. With the FAAA endorsing the proposal those who are either not willing to stand, or not understanding the long term implications will vote yes.
Just because people don't show up doesn't mean they don't have an opinion, they may not feel comfortable in that environment. And don't assume silence is stupidity, sometimes it's a lot smarter not to vent and make yourself a target.
At this stage everybody pretty much knows what they're going to do, perhaps they felt they had nothing to gain from meeting face to face.
As far as worrying about JQ and the FAAA using this thread, seriously they already hear enough in the crewrooms, on the aircraft and in the RBM's office. There's nothing on here they didn't already know.
I see the aggression shown at the roadshow as frustration at knowing there are enough people out there who do understand what's going on and are'nt going along with their plans. The schedules are already there, the flights are being sold, the actually do need to crew the flights, they need us as much as we need them.
Because with so many bases we have no real idea of what's going on in each other's backyard. With the FAAA endorsing the proposal those who are either not willing to stand, or not understanding the long term implications will vote yes.
Just because people don't show up doesn't mean they don't have an opinion, they may not feel comfortable in that environment. And don't assume silence is stupidity, sometimes it's a lot smarter not to vent and make yourself a target.
At this stage everybody pretty much knows what they're going to do, perhaps they felt they had nothing to gain from meeting face to face.
As far as worrying about JQ and the FAAA using this thread, seriously they already hear enough in the crewrooms, on the aircraft and in the RBM's office. There's nothing on here they didn't already know.
I see the aggression shown at the roadshow as frustration at knowing there are enough people out there who do understand what's going on and are'nt going along with their plans. The schedules are already there, the flights are being sold, the actually do need to crew the flights, they need us as much as we need them.
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VOTE NO
I was at the farce of a "roadshow" the other day. More like a "roadshaft" if you ask me. There in front of me stood two pathetic little leprechauns and their ditzy blonde sidekick(ex union rep turned bad) basically telling us we should be thankfull for what we got, there is no more! And then he tried to compare us to overseas crew! Well I've got news for you mr leprechaun, we live in Australia, there aint no clover gardens around here!
Now I'm the first person to realise I work for a low cost carrier, I know we are not going to achieve the save level of wages and conditions as short haul. But low cost does not mean no cost mr leprechaun, I dont work for charity.
As for Workchoices and the fear that the FAAA and company are instilling upon us, well its an utter load of crap. Yes I have mad a few phonecalls of my own, it aint that hard to do FAAA! You cannot be put on a contract unless YOU agree to it and sign it. Up until that time you will remain on our current EBA. Yes they can put new employees on contracts but we are safe. So as for this day of 20th March, its all rubbish.
At the end of the day you are the only one who can decide what is best for you. Do you want BOC flying, rostered only 4, but with live days who knows how many? Do you want to sign off after a BOC and sign on again the very same day for another BOC? Do you want no dedicated crew rest area? Managemant have the gall to stand in that meeting and tell us that the current schedule would not support all those duties? Yes, today, this very minute as it stands, maybe. But do they honestly think we are that bloody stupid? Of course they will build pairings to maximise our hours out. That's what this airline is all about. People will fly at any hour of the day or night, so long as the airfares are cheap enough. And then the silly leprechaun tells us that BOC wont be that hard as all the pax will be asleep!! Have you ever heard of anything so outrageous! Sleep, yeah as if!!
Vote NO. Send them back to the table. We all deserve to be treated with far more respect than this.
Now I'm the first person to realise I work for a low cost carrier, I know we are not going to achieve the save level of wages and conditions as short haul. But low cost does not mean no cost mr leprechaun, I dont work for charity.
As for Workchoices and the fear that the FAAA and company are instilling upon us, well its an utter load of crap. Yes I have mad a few phonecalls of my own, it aint that hard to do FAAA! You cannot be put on a contract unless YOU agree to it and sign it. Up until that time you will remain on our current EBA. Yes they can put new employees on contracts but we are safe. So as for this day of 20th March, its all rubbish.
At the end of the day you are the only one who can decide what is best for you. Do you want BOC flying, rostered only 4, but with live days who knows how many? Do you want to sign off after a BOC and sign on again the very same day for another BOC? Do you want no dedicated crew rest area? Managemant have the gall to stand in that meeting and tell us that the current schedule would not support all those duties? Yes, today, this very minute as it stands, maybe. But do they honestly think we are that bloody stupid? Of course they will build pairings to maximise our hours out. That's what this airline is all about. People will fly at any hour of the day or night, so long as the airfares are cheap enough. And then the silly leprechaun tells us that BOC wont be that hard as all the pax will be asleep!! Have you ever heard of anything so outrageous! Sleep, yeah as if!!
Vote NO. Send them back to the table. We all deserve to be treated with far more respect than this.
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JetScar, no need to be nasty now, I didnt really have anything to say as the others voiced all of my concerns pretty much straight off the bat (and also I believe that perhaps all but about 4 people didnt have much to say at all so I wasnt the only MUTE person there, perhaps that means were all gutless eh?) and I didnt feel the need to ask repetative questions. If you read back in the thread I asked 'Surely the union lawyers will be able to shed some light on what the Work Choices laws mean for us'. That is the question I was there to have answered, and I believe it was asked by another person very early on.
I read the EBA, I understood what it said, I was there for my own reasons, to hear what the union had to say, to see what others were concerned about, not everyone was there for the same reason as you. Im not sure why you are attacking me, I was merely letting other know what to expect, that perhaps the large group you expected wont turn up, perhaps the company will be not so nice, perhaps the union will tell you things you dont want to hear. Thats it.
I read the EBA, I understood what it said, I was there for my own reasons, to hear what the union had to say, to see what others were concerned about, not everyone was there for the same reason as you. Im not sure why you are attacking me, I was merely letting other know what to expect, that perhaps the large group you expected wont turn up, perhaps the company will be not so nice, perhaps the union will tell you things you dont want to hear. Thats it.