BA CSD Suspended for incorrectly demanding hotel upgrade!
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BA CSD Suspended for incorrectly demanding hotel upgrade!
A Longhaul CSD was suspended last week for demanding a room upgrade in line with BASSA's instructions.
At check in in Hong Kong the flight crew were given exec rooms and the CSD demanded an equivalent room.
After being advised of the rules and correct procedure (all pilots upgraded first and CSD then only if better room still available), he then proceeded to wave a BASSA instruction around, apparently left in his dropfile by BASSA.
The hotel copied it, refused an upgrade, and faxed it to BA. He was suspended on his return.
I don't have any more details or the result (if any) but at last it seems that BA will not be bullied by BASSA and their made-up agreements, at least in this area.
At check in in Hong Kong the flight crew were given exec rooms and the CSD demanded an equivalent room.
After being advised of the rules and correct procedure (all pilots upgraded first and CSD then only if better room still available), he then proceeded to wave a BASSA instruction around, apparently left in his dropfile by BASSA.
The hotel copied it, refused an upgrade, and faxed it to BA. He was suspended on his return.
I don't have any more details or the result (if any) but at last it seems that BA will not be bullied by BASSA and their made-up agreements, at least in this area.
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Hmmmm....
A bit doubtful of this story. Unless there is more to it than meets the eye.
Rightly or wrongly, the last BASSA magazine did state that In-Charge Cabin Crew are entitled to the same standard or room as the Flight crew.
I really can't imagine BA suspending a CSD whilst down route for demanding a room upgrade. Maybe a little ren de vous with their manager and some rapped knuckes, but suspension (??)
A bit doubtful of this story. Unless there is more to it than meets the eye.
Rightly or wrongly, the last BASSA magazine did state that In-Charge Cabin Crew are entitled to the same standard or room as the Flight crew.
I really can't imagine BA suspending a CSD whilst down route for demanding a room upgrade. Maybe a little ren de vous with their manager and some rapped knuckes, but suspension (??)
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Now, I don't have the Bassa magazine infront of me so can't quote exactly, but I'm sure that the arrangement was NOT that CSDs should have the same rooms as flight crew.
The arrangement was that CSDs should have the same standard of rooms as FIRST OFFICERS..... It's normal that the Captain is given a higher standard of room than the rest of the crew - CSD included.
Another part of the story that must be looked at is WHO arranged for the upgraded room.
If British Airways pays £100.00 for a Captain's room, £75.00 for a First Officer's room, £75.00 for a CSD's room and £65.00 for the rest of the rooms, that's surely all the Unions should be worrying out.
It's surely up to each individual hotel if who they choose to upgrade. So long as the company aren't booking a different grade of room for the CSD vs. First Officer, it should be of no consequence what kind of room anyone actually occupies.
The arrangement was that CSDs should have the same standard of rooms as FIRST OFFICERS..... It's normal that the Captain is given a higher standard of room than the rest of the crew - CSD included.
Another part of the story that must be looked at is WHO arranged for the upgraded room.
If British Airways pays £100.00 for a Captain's room, £75.00 for a First Officer's room, £75.00 for a CSD's room and £65.00 for the rest of the rooms, that's surely all the Unions should be worrying out.
It's surely up to each individual hotel if who they choose to upgrade. So long as the company aren't booking a different grade of room for the CSD vs. First Officer, it should be of no consequence what kind of room anyone actually occupies.
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Yes, I also think this is a pretty doubtful story, one reason being that if it was true then it would already have been covered by the BASSA website forums!
Also, Justinzider, may I suggest that if you are a BA crewmember with BASSA that you leave threads such as this for the BASSA website as it is only another excuse for some misguided and unneccassary BA bashing, if you are BA staff from elsewhere...well shame on you!!!!
Also, Justinzider, may I suggest that if you are a BA crewmember with BASSA that you leave threads such as this for the BASSA website as it is only another excuse for some misguided and unneccassary BA bashing, if you are BA staff from elsewhere...well shame on you!!!!
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I'm not a "BA Basher" but I'm sort of bothered to read that this would be better discussed away from public scrutiny on the BASSA forum. It may not intentionally be so, but it smacks of there being something to hide?
For the record, after 25+ years flying down the back for non Flag carriers, the idea of there being any agreement in place that puts me as the Cabin In-Charge on a par with anything more important than the hotel cat is fascinating.
IF (and that's a big IF) this story is true, then it demonstrates IMHO that there is some way for BA to go before they catch up with the LOCO's
For the record, after 25+ years flying down the back for non Flag carriers, the idea of there being any agreement in place that puts me as the Cabin In-Charge on a par with anything more important than the hotel cat is fascinating.
IF (and that's a big IF) this story is true, then it demonstrates IMHO that there is some way for BA to go before they catch up with the LOCO's
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Here's the ACTUAL wording from the Hotel Contracts Agreement:-
Where the Hotel wishes to upgrade Crew Members to superior rooms, (in addition to the Captain, and/or any specified in the agreement), such upgrades shall be allocated in the order of, Senior First Officers; First Officers; Cabin Service Directors and Pursers. Any room upgrade shall be at no extra charge to BA Group.
BASSA's "interpretation" is wrong.
Be careful out there.
Where the Hotel wishes to upgrade Crew Members to superior rooms, (in addition to the Captain, and/or any specified in the agreement), such upgrades shall be allocated in the order of, Senior First Officers; First Officers; Cabin Service Directors and Pursers. Any room upgrade shall be at no extra charge to BA Group.
BASSA's "interpretation" is wrong.
Be careful out there.
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eddy talking 
again, BA pays the same money for every room
The clue is in the wording "at no extra cost to BA" we all start out with similar rooms, FC in alot of hotels will be on higher floors due to the noise clause in our contract, but the rooms are the same. Then and only if the hotel want to they begin to upgrade people starting with the Captain. BASSA are banging the drums to a different tune to everyone else, but don't they always
again, BA pays the same money for every room The clue is in the wording "at no extra cost to BA" we all start out with similar rooms, FC in alot of hotels will be on higher floors due to the noise clause in our contract, but the rooms are the same. Then and only if the hotel want to they begin to upgrade people starting with the Captain. BASSA are banging the drums to a different tune to everyone else, but don't they always
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Interesting but somewhat unclear to a furriner.
Could someone be kind enough to enlighten me on the following points?
As this is all very very different from the way we do things, it's rather fascinating.
Could someone be kind enough to enlighten me on the following points?
- BASSA is one of the unions representing BA cabin crew?
- It's BA that pays for the hotel rooms?
- Are the room standards something that is part if the negotiations between BA and the unions?
- Pilots have a noise clause in their contracts which gives the right to 'quiet' rooms, but cabin attendants don't?
- When the hotel upgrades people because their cheap rooms are all occupied, it's not the hotel itself but either BA or BASSA who believe they have the right to say who goes where?
As this is all very very different from the way we do things, it's rather fascinating.
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And all of these replies are exactly the reason why I feel this subject is best not discussed in a public forum as people will get a wrong idea about BA crew and develope even more of an impression that we are mollycuddled which we are not!
Flapsforty....Yes Bassa is a CC union along with Cabin Crew 89.
Ba does pay for the hotel rooms.
Room standards are set by the unions in agreement with the company.
All crew are entitled to quiet rooms.
And if a crew member gets upgraded....well good for them, I dont think any of us have the right to demand an equal room! But jealousy is an evil thing that exists in any walk of life!
Flapsforty....Yes Bassa is a CC union along with Cabin Crew 89.
Ba does pay for the hotel rooms.
Room standards are set by the unions in agreement with the company.
All crew are entitled to quiet rooms.
And if a crew member gets upgraded....well good for them, I dont think any of us have the right to demand an equal room! But jealousy is an evil thing that exists in any walk of life!
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I have flown longhaul frequently with BA in the past year.
Most of the time the CSD does very little other than make two passenger announcements, turn the IFE on and off and hand out some customer surveys.
If anyone should be in need of an upgraded room it should be the rest of the cabin crew that do all the hard work.
As a passenger I'm quite shocked that CSDs consider apparently consider themselves as important as flight crew.
Most of the time the CSD does very little other than make two passenger announcements, turn the IFE on and off and hand out some customer surveys.
If anyone should be in need of an upgraded room it should be the rest of the cabin crew that do all the hard work.
As a passenger I'm quite shocked that CSDs consider apparently consider themselves as important as flight crew.
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Wow, Da Dog, I was not speaking " again". I didn't say that the rates I posted WERE the rates the company paid. I didn't even say that the rates the company paid for each different crew grade were different. I merely posted an example of what the case MIGHT be.
I don't feel there was any need for your abusive post.
again". I didn't say that the rates I posted WERE the rates the company paid. I didn't even say that the rates the company paid for each different crew grade were different. I merely posted an example of what the case MIGHT be. I don't feel there was any need for your abusive post.
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And yet it continues that people are getting a wrong impression of BA crew and this time the CSD's! Yes there are some lazy CSD's out there but fortunately these are the few. But discokid, how do you know the CSD did little or nothing on your flight? How do you know that they were not busy doing the paper work that is involved in the job, writing reports from when things went wrong on a previous sector, busy observing pursers for asessements, busy helping crew do the service in a cabin that was not the one you were in....generally on a 777 you will find the csd in the club galley running the service for the purser!!!! Bet none of you regulars knew that!!!!
Enjoy your SIN this weekend!!!
Enjoy your SIN this weekend!!!
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And if a crew member gets upgraded....well good for them, I dont think any of us have the right to demand an equal room! But jealousy is an evil thing that exists in any walk of life!
Sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad and even sadder crew.
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apaddyinuk thank you for clearing up most of my questions; makes it a bit easier to understand.
Only one questions remains unanswered.
Is there anything formalised in BA, in writing, about who gets the upgrades if and when a hotel offers them? Does it say anywhere that for example the chain of command, as valid on the aircraft, should be followed in these cases, or is it a matter for people themselves to sort out there and then at the hotel's front desk?
This last method being the one we use, and the upgrades generally go to the youngest FAs since both our Senior Pursers and Captains heartily agree that the junior FAs have the physically most demanding jobs and the lowest salaries, which makes it extra nice for them with a suite.
Another facet is that hotels sometimes, without charging the company extra and without telling us at the time of check-in, give Captain & (Senior) Purser a better room, which they then usually 'open up' for crew drinks at least one evening.
So how this work in other companies then?
Only one questions remains unanswered.
Is there anything formalised in BA, in writing, about who gets the upgrades if and when a hotel offers them? Does it say anywhere that for example the chain of command, as valid on the aircraft, should be followed in these cases, or is it a matter for people themselves to sort out there and then at the hotel's front desk?
This last method being the one we use, and the upgrades generally go to the youngest FAs since both our Senior Pursers and Captains heartily agree that the junior FAs have the physically most demanding jobs and the lowest salaries, which makes it extra nice for them with a suite.
Another facet is that hotels sometimes, without charging the company extra and without telling us at the time of check-in, give Captain & (Senior) Purser a better room, which they then usually 'open up' for crew drinks at least one evening.
So how this work in other companies then?
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I don;t see any reason why the flight crew should get a better room than the Cabin Crew? after all it takes all of them to 'operate' the aircraft successfully doesn't it?
Last edited by Helli-Gurl; 22nd Oct 2005 at 15:35.
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Flaps,
The formal "in writing" bit is exactly as justinzider said:
As far as I know, there's no agreement to upgrade anyone other than Captains. I'm also led to believe that the suspension was more a matter of the individual's attitude to the hotel's response than the demand/request for an upgrade itself.
Is there anything formalised in BA, in writing, about who gets the upgrades if and when a hotel offers them? Does it say anywhere that for example the chain of command, as valid on the aircraft, should be followed in these cases, or is it a matter for people themselves to sort out there and then at the hotel's front desk?
Where the Hotel wishes to upgrade Crew Members to superior rooms, (in addition to the Captain, and/or any specified in the agreement), such upgrades shall be allocated in the order of, Senior First Officers; First Officers; Cabin Service Directors and Pursers. Any room upgrade shall be at no extra charge to BA Group.