QF LHR Base (merged)

[peanut pusher]

Some more info for consideration

Just to clear up a few details for the uninformed

*There is a copy of rosters like in every s/h base in Aus for people wanting to swap etc as there was only 80 crew for the first 6 weeks it wasn't hard for every body to print the crew rosters and make a swap book and even a swap website.

*The UK GM has recieved 28 complimentory letters from passangers in the first 5 weeks, don't know as of today

*We have a great sprinkling of experianced crew including the qantas number 1 seniority, (40 years next week) who fit in perfectly with our very junior crew

*To be truthful I wish we never had a LHR base but we do and if Aus crew didn't staff it it would be 100 % British nationals.
So I have to work with what I have, and I have family in the UK and a business in Thailand so I didn't have any choice

*There has been many delibrate attempts to sabotage hand overs, no cork screws onboard etc, dirty plates mixed with clean, lies to pax about crew backgrounds etc

*Most junior crew have been flying s/h for around 2.5 to 3 years and are not wet behind the ears in flying experiance.

*Sorry for the first hand overs as the ex s/h had never been trained out of SYD that the a/c is not stripped inc. oven liners like in s/h but they sure know now.

*If you want to point a finger, point it at the Ex FAAA who got out gunned and out smarted in the last EBA before the current one.
This is were our battle was lost and will be the beginning of the end as we know it.(I give myself 4 more years and the job will be broken down so badly that it won't be worth doing anymore)

*I understand the passion and why there are such strong feelings but unfortunately it's our bed from now on (read above passage for my scope)

*Lets keep it real and remember our pax are caught in the middle of it

Ferris
*Your an air traffic controller in the UAE looking for excitment in the crew forum, please this is something you know nothing about or are effected by.

*Why no comments further about Thai crew, jokes about captain here are the beers you ordered (on the flight deck at the top of decent), first 1 1/2 years Thai crew would not answer interphone and remember the captain who called R4 and asked do you see any smoke from the 3 engine, R4 no I don't smoke and hang up. They go on and on so Thai crew had a much harder transition than any LHR crew every will

Please no more personal stuff

[loudmouth]

From my point of view ( pointy end U/M ), having done two sectors now with London based Cabin Crews,they are going just fine. As you would expect they are not at the same standard as the Syd. based crews but hey, they are not very far off. They are extremely enthusiastic and because of this I think that in a relatively short time frame ( say a bid period or at the most two ) they will be offering a superior product. The only concern that I have is for their health if the Company starts to operate them on LHR/SIN/FRA/SIN/LHR patterns, as no doubt it will.

I wish them all the best.

[cabinfever]

Just out of curiosity...what are the f/a's earning at the LHR base?...Say weekly?...Including bringing back some of the allowances?
Is it hideous having to commute on the tube if u have no car?...or can u get the bus back with the Thais at the hotel and make ur own way there?

Hope someone can help

Cheers

[mach2male]

health

I agree with loudmouth.Once everthing settles down and QF starts tightening the rostering screws CC health will become a major issue together with fatigue.Once it is realised that QF don't care enthusiasm will be the first casualty.

[ferris]

*Your (sic) an air traffic controller in the UAE looking for excitment in the crew forum, please this is something you know nothing about or are effected by

I know lots about it and am affected by it as I have close family flying. I am also interested in the general Industrial Relations principles and techniques being applied. How do you reconcile your incorrect statement about me with your plea "Please, no more personal stuff"? If you are embarrassed about selling out fellow Australians (or assisting in their sell out) for your 30 pieces of silver, then by all means argue your case- but don't bleat on here about "personal stuff".

I sleep very soundly at night. You?

[Defcon5]

Principal/Ethics,Scrubber.

I am "worked up "about the LHR Base because of the ethics and principals involved.It has no affect on my income whatsoever.Just who is better off with the base?The crew there receive less income,have no interactive rostering system,standown time is less and in time will be worked into the ground.The pax are certainly no better off.
The Qantas Brand is being damaged.The cost saving /annum is about the price of one engine on a 747.400.
I am glad my posts bring some joy into your obviously dreary life

[flapsforty]

For your information:
Scrubbed has disqualified him/herself from the thread by using personal attacks instead of arguing the facts.

[hugh grant]

london looking good

just arrived on the second wave, and surf's up . yes it all looks good.
too funny about syd crew discovering BKK based crew as their new brothers in arms. last week a syd csm refused to take BKK crew on his bus because ' you work for another company, not qantas' too funny if it wasn't pathetic
the thais are working 12-13 day trips -3 days off - 243 hrs per roster. if syd crew so concerned for them perhaps they should get FAAA to improve their conditions so they are the same as syd. this was what warner & broome were attempting to do.
I remember all the racist jokes about BKK crew too. guess the syd wits better start thinking up some pommy ones.
one thing syd crew and poms have in common though is their ability to whinge.

[peanut pusher]

Ferris Please

Ferris really, I thought your wife was ex L/H crew (Qantas) and that was the extent of your crew exposure. That was your PM to me two years ago. 30 pieces of silver not quite, didn't you move to the UAE to better yourself and you wouldn't be working in a country with poor human rights and segrigation of woman, gays etc. Sorry but keep it real, looking through all the other forums your a real expert in everything.

New Name Eddy the expert

[jettlager]

huge rant,

The same CSM who denied transport to the Thais also denied transport to the Tech crew travelling with them.

This was done in consultation with the Captain that was traveling with him as there wasn't enough room for eight extras on the bus nor there luggage.

The said CSM also made a call to the LHR base ops looking for a replacement crew member during that slip and was TOLD don't be calling us as we don't work for the same company.

"Pathetic", no?

Jettlager

[Flugbegleiter]

This thread has been a very interesting read although, I think it would be better to stop the *personal* attacks against each other.

I personally have nothing against any individuals in the LHR base, however, I disagree with there being a London base. Since there is, though, it may as well be crewed by Aussies who want to take the opportunity to live in London.

Before the current EBA was approved, I was totally against a London base, and back then I definitely had a problem with people applying for it. But it is too late now. It's done. Another nail in the coffin for Australian based crew. And for all I care, London can go on to become a better base than Sydney, because I personally no longer strive to provide "exceptional" customer service, or go out of my way for anyone. Like this company, I now only think about my own bottom line and I do what suits me.

I used to be very positive, happy with my job and lifestyle, despite constant change and challenges. But I really don't give a sh*t anymore. I guess I'm "disengaged". I still enjoy flying and am desperately trying to hold onto the lifestyle I enjoy, but unfortunately QF is the only international airline based in Oz, so for as long as I want to keep doing this, I have no alternative but to stay.

If you have taken the London base for your own reasons, then that's fine. Good for you. But please don't try and justify the base and claim it is a great thing. The money they are saving is coming directly from the pockets of people like me, who make most of our money from the long range/OT/allowances of trips like these. Not to mention that the reason I started flying was the lifestyle of flying on routes like these (London, Rome, Paris, Frankfurt).

[jettlager]

Flugbegleiter,

[ I really don't give a sh*t anymore. I guess I'm "disengaged".]

You are not alone my friend.
The "Hewitt" survey measured disengagement levels with Longhaul at 78%.

These figures are mirrored across ALL OPERATIONAL departments with Tech crew I understand not much better measuring 72%.

Rumour has it that one of the SYD longhaul "handlers" has just resigned "unofficially" disgusted with the lies and spin he was expected to deliver.

QF is one hell of a sick organisation.

geoff dixon is solely responsible for the poisonous culture and environment that QF staff endure.

With more and more of us are taking a leaf from managements book by doing as they do the big LONGTERM question is will QF survive geoff dixon's tenure?

Jettlager

[hugh grant]

disembarking the a/c in sin last week a syd based csm mumbled 'there go the uk scabs'
I resent that
the uk base went ahead with the full endorsement of the faaa
if you got a problem take it up with the membership that signed off on this last eba
this csm is indicative of ther gutless wonders that hide amongst longhaul cabin crew
the immature antics of the screw the roo tossers are an embarrassment to all adult f/as who take their jobs seriously
lets hope these jueveniles are exposed and sacked asap
with their pathetic attitude -they could only burn up excess fuel while at work
since when does qantas owe these bludgers a living? go out and have a crack at getting a real job .
you're an expert at serving tea & coffee at 39,000 ft travelling at 900km per hr. bully for you.
you'll spend the rest of your life at a Centrelink office .there's no room service or crew drinks there.

[Flugbegleiter]

...

disembarking the a/c in sin last week a syd based csm mumbled 'there go the uk scabs'

Hugh Grant (??!), I do agree with you that this kind of behaviour is stupid and pointless - as you pointed out, the FAAA/membership signed off on the London base. Anyone in the London base is NOT a "scab" and Australian based crew should not hold any resentment towards anyone who wants to work in the London base.

However, I can also understand why so many crew are upset with a lot of what has been going on lately, and the major changes and attacks on our job and lifestyle. So far, from what I have seen, the "Screw the Roo" team have not done anything wrong. They are meerly voicing their opinions of current management, a lot of which I agree with.

Unfortunately, we no longer have the powers we used to have as a union, and it is almost impossible to defend our hard-earned conditions. Of course it costs the company more money to uphold certain conditions - things like our slipping formula, hourly rates, transport entitlements, crew/company max, etc. But these are things we have fought for in the past, and make our job more bearable now. The company will take away any of these conditions they can, with little or no regard for our health, well-being or lifestyle. The Kiwis, Thais and now the London base are a good example of how Qantas would like us to work. I know a lot of AKL based crew have been doing 12-13 day trips with only a couple of days off afterward, then they're off again. 230-240 hour rosters, lower pay, shorter slips, contract employment. What sort of life is that? Sure, it saves the company money, but it is not fair to PEOPLE. I think QF have long forgotten this and it is now purely about profits and shareholders.

Blah blah blah...

[Xatrix]

Sorry couldn't help but to post.....

Firstly let me say I too like most Qf employees are unhappy with the direction the company seems to be taking with this "sustainable futures" program. It is an attack on conditions in ALL parts of the company. Tech crew, cabin crew, engineers, ground staff. There is no doubt the opening of these new bases is an attempt to slowly erode the conditions now enjoyed. Jetstar, Jetstar Asia, Jetconnect, AO all achieve this same outcome. But let me say this....

I (tech crew) have done 3 sectors now with the LHR based crew, the first 2 with Australian crew (ex short and longhaul) and the 3rd with a crew of about half poms and half aussies. I have to say, and I can say my opinion represents that of all the tech crew on board each flight, that it was an absolute pleasure to work with them. Sure most of them were "learning" (though most had some cabin experience already) but the attitude was very refreshing. Not to tar all Syd based cabin crew with the same brush, but it was like a breath of fresh air.

Jetlagger i'm not sure exactly why you want the London based to fail so urgently, or where your disdain for those crew stems. Whatever your agenda, most of the things you say, especially using the Thai crew to try and fuel your obviously desperate case, are downright laughable. You think their memory is so short as to forget the less than friendly welcome they received when they first joined 5 years ago? (Undoubtedly from people like yourself - what is the different in principle from the BKK base and the LHR base?) Trust me, it is still fresh in their minds. And they are enjoying being treated with the respect of being the "senior" crew, and feel like they now have something to offer. Out for dinner in BKK a few days ago with a group of the BKk based crew asked what they thought of the LHR based crew. Generally speaking, nice people, good attitudes, obviously still cutting their teeth, but they all remember what it was like to be new too. Far from the anti-lhr base sentiment you suggest (and obviously hoped for). Sure, like any large group of people you are bound to get a few "extremes", but i think most would find what you write quite difficult to swallow.

I for one hope (and am quite confident) the LHR base will suceed, and the doomsdayers like yourself will have to turn your irrational outbursts elsewhere.....

[jettlager]

Xatrix,

thanks for the reference to me in your post.
I'm not entirely sure however why you want the base to succeed?

Is it because you like the fact that it represents a 10-20 % drop in salary for the hundreds of SYD based crew that traditionally operated that sector?

Is it because it is a vehicle that denies hundreds and hundreds of Australians the opportunity of working for and representing our flag carrier?

Is it because it represents a shift away from what has traditionally made Qantas unique which is the nature and character of our onboard service and those who provide it. I can only assume of course that our marketing department spends countless millions selling "The Spirit Of Australia" for a reason........?

Is it because it lines the pockets of the already bloated senior executives salaries at our expense?

Is it because the service standards on that route have declined markedly since it's start up?

Is it because the Australian taxation department and our economy as a whole loses the income tax and buying power generated by the wages that WOULD be paid if those jobs had stayed in Australia?


Speaking of the Thais and their introduction.
Was it not a SYD based CSM that was "stood down" by one of your collegues for DARING to put two Thais upstairs AGAINST his [the Captains] permission?

It is a FACT that since start up the Thais have been treated less than favourably by the new kids on the block.
They chose to bow recently to a SYD based crew for a reason.

Granted they may be prepared to, "blown wind up your ass" which is something SYD based crew will not but I personally dont see that as reason enough to champion the base's cause.

I can only hope that geoff and his cronies have a similar operarion in store for you so that I may be the first to ask why, YOU don't support it.

Jettlager

[Xatrix]

jetlagger,

I'm hardly championing the REASON for the creation of the base. You obviously missed my first paragraph. But it HAS happened. YOUR union endorsed it. Real people are up there now, some your ex-colleagues. I hardly think its going to close down because a couple of old syd-based boilers try to sabotage it. If you think your posts or actions will achieve this you're p!ssing into the wind. Why the "us v them" mentality?

I wonder what source you base your FACT about the treatment of the Thai crew on? And yes i've heard the story about the captain you mentioned. Like i said, you take any large group of people, whatever they do, you are still going to have your w@nkers. Fact of life.

As for a "similar operarion" for tech crew, i think you will shortly see the creation of a Singapore basing for a certain rank. An opportunity, for those who want it, to experience living and working in another country.

And noone's blowing anything up anyones arse. Its just refreshing, and one of the few times in my career that i've seen all 16 cabin crew and 4 tech crew go out for dinner and drinks as a CREW and have a really enjoyable time.


Jai yen yen na ja!

[jettlager]

xatrix,

to suggest that the basing of a handfull of AUSTRALIAN second officers in SIN is "similar" in effect to our LHR CC base is more than a little disingenuous.

[I wonder what source you base your FACT about the treatment of the Thai crew on?]

First hand reports VOLUNTEERED from the Thai crew that experienced it.
You may be interested to learn that the Thais have what THEY call a "secret weapon".
It takes the form of a written complaint to QF management and they have been putting pen to paper like never before.

You and others who think so are seriously misinformed if you think the Longhaul FAAA have "endorsed???" the LHR base.

Rather they were and continue to be, in no position to do anything about it.

[Its just refreshing, and one of the few times in my career that i've seen all 16 cabin crew and 4 tech crew go out for dinner and drinks as a CREW and have a really enjoyable time. ]

Still not enough reason to support it as far as I'm concerned even if YOU did have a really good time.

Jettlager

[peanut pusher]

Jettlager...........I hear what your saying

We as crew lost the battle when TW & co. let the BKK base & AKL base start. You continually use the Thai crew as a friendly force when they have had a greater impact than any other on our conditions.
They worked during the stop work industrial dispute 3 years ago, the still go to LHR and stay at the hotel we stayed at, actually nothing has changed for them it's probably got better and some can be very two faced.
Most are excellent but a few are trouble makers, much like our Aus crew.
A Thai crew member said to on Wed. night it was great not being hit on middle aged men trying to impress her with their 2 bedroom flat in Mascot. I said does that happen lots and she said a couple times a month.
So the bow to the crew last week may have happened but there has been more than 100 flights between LHR / BKK / LHR and one bow doesn't make a presadent.
I know it's very hard but you have to work with what you have. I sumed it up and made a choice to work with what I have been delt.

Xatrix
Thank you for a a third party opion with clarity

[barrheadboy]

qf lhr base

hi all i have been reading this thread with a lot of interest not as an employee of qantas but as a regular traveler with your airline i have flown with you since the early 70,and can honestly say that not once have i had any bad flights and that has been due to the professional work of the pilots c c ground staff and the travel agents so it realy dissapoints me to read all the comments and see what this aussie icon is turning into this sort of thing always starts at the top due to greed and dixon has a lot to answer for it causes distrust in the company and in the end divides the work force and has you fighting among your selves when that happens you all lose it would be better if you all worked together to get a better deal for your selves instead of being divided and conquered then we can get back to the happy friendly faces on board again because you will be there after the ceo and all the board have long gone good luck to you all from a qantas customer