Yourflightattendant,

I believe there actually is NO reduction in overnights. It's more to do with the Sydney base creating the change overnights and what has been given to them. In actual fact I believe resourcing have been using the KRONOS system for some time now, the introduction of KRONOS as part of our bidding has nothing to do with the reduction of overnights.

In relation to your comments about the EBA, let's not get into a discussion about that, otherwise we would need to draw out all the details of the EBA that was presented to us.... Meal allowances vs overnights may be an adavantage for day trips, but lets face it with a NO vote at 89% I think there were alot of issues with the EBA that was negotiated.

It's the first month since the new bidding system that this has happened, let's wait and see what happens in the coming months before we all start predicting....

Does anyone have a Sydney based roster that they could show here? or PM one to me?

:)

OSbound: thanks for the reply. I guess I'll have to email them as it may be a changing target. This would explain why duty hours fluctuate so much between rosters where AL is taken.

yourflightattendant: interesting perspective. We'll need to keep an eye on our rosters over the next few months to establish some kind of pattern but this may be difficult with all the changes taking place (Tiger, Sydney base, more E-jet deliveries and crew being cross-trained, new PBS).

It will be another year before another EBA is drafted, which gives the company plenty of time to reassess and reduce its cost-base in response to changing market conditions. It will be interesting to see how it all works out but hopefully, they keep us informed about any 'major' changes that may impact us.. :ooh:

Vb roster fatigue
 

hey vb girl
- came across the thread and I just spoke with a very tired friend who is VB CCrew and I am amazed at the provisions.

My friend has just done a 4 day trip - Days 1 & 2 were each >8 hours @ 4 legs. Day 3, picked up at hotel @0530 then fly 3 legs the last being coast to coast - arriving at hotel at 1400 (local) for "rest" before being picked up at 2230 on the same day to operate return coast to coast, back of clock.

That's less than 8 hours rest in between two sign ons in the one day!!!!!!!! (closer to 7 hours rest if you consider having a shower and something to eat) - aparently VB can do this legally and she said the FAAA does not believe this duty is a fatigue issue as it is within the current EBA.

With rosters like this it sounds like you really do need a new EBA now before someone gets hurt or has a serious accident.

Is this typical of what VB crews are being askd to do?

[- I couldn't imagine our cabin crew doing it as they get 15 hours min rest following a duty > 8 hrs, under 8hrs the min rest is 12 hours]

airtags - there are no pairings at DJ that are what you've just stated - they can't sign on twice in one day - the BOC PER/East Coast is normally conducted after approx 23hrs rest.

overhere: - thanks for the confirmation - good to hear it's not a regular -

I believe the paring was in fact an ad-hoc build following the chaos arising from the adverse wx in SYD the other evening. Have an email with the flt nos & times so it did happen - the real question is why didn't the FAAA back the crew?

VB when challenged has apparently offered a taxi voucher for the crew to go home on completion - but only one way - they have to make their own way back to collect their cars at their own cost later.....nothing like duty of care eh!..........(for the record, our lot are not any better)

airtags - 32 (e) of the VB EBA states:
Cabin Crew will not sign-on twice in the one day at home base, unless the member of Cabin Crew elects to do so.

It appears that signing on twice in one day away from home base is legal :uhoh:

However, I'm unsure about the rest period. The crew's sign on would have been at 2300 if they were picked up at 2230, but minimum rest is 10 hours, so sign off could not have been later than 1300 on that day. Do you know what time they signed off?

Incidentally, your rest periods (duty > 8hrs = 15 hrs rest, futy < 8hrs = 12 hrs rest) sound fantastic! Don't ever bargain them away!

Rest periods at VB are:
Away from home - min. 10 hrs (regardless of previous length of duty)
Home base - 15 hrs (can be reduced to 12 hrs due to disruptions)

Anyway, I'm still curious about how they build a roster with annual leave because a normal roster is built to 120-130hrs BUT if it includes leave, then it seems that the roster is built to a prorated target calculated from 140hrs.

No wonder I've felt overworked during the months I've taken leave! Very sneaky!

airtags I have heard about this story from another source and cant work out why the crew would have said yes to any of it.
If your feeling fatigued then the cs and cc just call it and let crewing sort it out. You get paxed straight home but its better than not being able to cope in any sort of emergency.
If crew don't know the minimums of the EBA then they will get asked to things that are illegal. I would like to know if the company will support you if anything goes wrong once you have accepted something outside the EBA?

yourflight attendant:

MEL base has been getting heaps of overnights, 10+, for the last few months. FEB roster is down a little but there are 2 less days in the month + SYD base + less annual leave??? = more crew available for the roster.
MEL crew are regularly getting BNE overnights of up to 24 hours, possibly because we wont go sick whereas BNE crew not living near the airport will go sick for the 4am-5am signons. I am still not seeing many day trips either and haven't for a while.

Lastly at the end of the day there is nothing we can do about the overnights. You cant budget your life on them as they are a bonus if we get them in the first place. I applied for E-jet and found out o'nights would be a minimum which suited me but obviously not you. I don't know why you didn't know this before applying as it was common knowledge in MEL.

I have a feeling we'll see things go back to normal next month...I think recruitment has slowed down a bit for now also so new crew coming online will ease up for a little while...or I could be wrong!

How are we finding our new crew bags? I think they look really good and help give us a more professional look, but they dont fit much in them! Other than that I like it.

vb girl, wirgin blue & et al;

thanks for the responses and PM's appreciated the prompt info and it encouraged a very despondent crew - as you may have worked out I'm up in the front end for another airline but a very good friend is VB CC and what they were pushed to do with this pattern was indeed a black mark on the airline. (The pattern I queried in the forum for her came as a result of a 'rebuilt trip' following the adverse Wx in SYD.)

VB after being pushed by the union and the operating crew, finally gave in and provided them taxi vouchers but essentially the issue still remains that on a multi day pattern away from home you can be directed to have reduced min rest and then operate BOC across the timezones.

It is not ideal and f'instance just would not be tolerated by the QF crews that I work with, but unfortunately the VB EBA (like all other EBA's, inc the QF) is less than acceptable under these kind of operating conditions.

Your query about responsibility "if something was to happen" is covered off under the indemnity provisions however if it was to be a REALLY bad day in the blue sky office I would imagine the coroner would go to guns quickly when looking at what the crew was pushed to do.

We all essentially suffer the same issue that a 12 hr min rest (or in VB case 10 hr) is eroded by late tpt pick ups, traffic to the hotel and early pick ups prior to sign on (notwithstanding noisy hotels, rooms near lifts, pi*ssed noisy bogans in hotel corridors, half a mile walk to get healthy food and a 20 minute queue to check out before pick up and of course no isolated crew rest facilities onboard etc.,)

Our airline employers (VB, QF, J* etc all have some great platitudes about fatigue ( I love the VB book on this .....it is such a corporate wank) and while some CC are stupid enough to p*ss up & party on till the wee hours before sign on, the reality is that the productivity of saving a few hours on a 3 or 4 trip by screwing the crew just isn't worth the risk of an accident. Like the wombat crew that party all night in slip ports - sadly it'll take a serious accident before reality bites and a more sensible remedy is adopted.

In the meantime suggest you all start emailing the FAAA and start building a business case for a rethink on the min rest and the related provisions - that includes encouraging the party wombats to wake up to themselves(Aircrew RBT/drug testing is now a reality) after all it's of little use batting for better rest if a stupid few compromise the argument.

To the very brain dead VB DM from BNE that sent me the 'other' PMsg ..... pls spare me/us the company lines of "being a 'specialist' (?)LCC and the need to cut conditions to maximise returns while still providing a unique positive customer experience" - I suggest you see how far that kind of Branson B.S gets you when there is a accident - or if you are really serious, then publicly stick your head up now and give better support to your hardworking crews. Maybe you should roster yourself on the same pattern as a famil as a first step.

Can I add we are a New World Carrier not LCC which means things like genuine fatigue management need to be looked at from the front line, not from office staff who have flexi hours to come and go as they please. Some of them have been CC and CS's but probably worked for a completely different beast that VB is now.
Listen to your staff they are leaving because the grass is greener.

Have Virgin started to sort out what crew from VB are going across to V Australia yet. Are VirginBlue still recruiting or are they waiting to see how many new ones are needed to fill the holes. Can anyone tell me is the Sydney base both short & long haul? I really want to get into Virgin, how good are they going to be in another 12 months.
Regards

Gloria approx 35% of LH can transfer from SH if they wish. It is my understanding it will be a SYD base as the training is going to be in SYD.
The SYD SH base has started recruiting and with SYD being the busy port it would only make sense that they have a base as big as MEL and BNE.
As QCCA is also recruiting in SYD for LH this makes for interesting times for anybody wishing to become a FA.
MEL base is training two courses a month at the moment and crew are still complaining about being overworked.
Crew I have spoken to in MEL arent interested in LH as nobody wants to move to SYD just to fly SYD-LAX (if that is what is going to be).
I wish the recruitment people in SYD all the best as its going to be hard to find enough of the right people imho.

me thinks with a flawed already process in place for qcca getting mam to qantas starts, means virgin shall have minimal probs. getting interest from good contenders. seems qantas may have gotten to big for their polished boots. cheers gigs

Application question...
 

Hi everyone!!
Quick question, if I want to apply for L/H or V Australia how do I go about that? Do I just apply under the normal Cabin Crew Team Member in their website or is it somewhere else? Or are they not even open for applications yet??
I'm from Sydney by the way!

And would the crews be separated into LH and SH or is it all as one? And, could a current crew just give me a ballpark figure or roughly what you guys earn in say a fortnight, after taxes??

Sydney Recruitment
 

A friend went along to a VBRD in SYD last month and made it through to the end of the day.
After about 3 weeks was advised that she had progressed to the next stage and would be contacted in 2 weeks. A couple of days later was called by VB to advise SYD recruitment had been placed on hold for the time being. They said they would keep her on file for 6mths. The very next day her referee's were called?????
Anyone know what is happening with the SYD base??
She has also been offered QCCA, would pref Virgin though.

Hi futureflier... V Australia for internal applicants will start in the next month, external not long after that. First aircraft arrives September, commercial services start Oct/Nov.

Take home fortnightly after tax between $1700-$2100 for a MEL based S/H Cabin Crew member at the moment. Easily averaging $2000 at the moment - but this takes into account upto 7 overnights per pay which could drop to zero at the drop of a hat - about $90 tax free per overnight so you'll minimum $1400 per fortnight WORSE CASE SCENARIO.

Thanks!
 

Thats great!
I've just registered my interest on their website so I'll just wait and see what happens...
I wonder what kind of flying the SYD base would be doing??

Hi Futureflier

Good luck with your application.

At the moment Sydney based crew with 737 endorsement only are doing mainly back of clock flying which is red eye trips including SYD-BNE-PER. Then PER-BNE. I believe most of the 737 crew got alot of overnights. The E-Jet crew are mainly doing day trips with no overnights in the month. It's really hard to tell what kind of flying Sydney base will do until it has expanded more and there are more than a 100 or so crew. At the moment Melbourne and Brisbane crew are still overnighting in Sydney so we are doing lots of their flying.

If you do get in it will be a very exciting time to join the Sydney base as it will be entirely new with respect to crew, crew rooms (currently being renovated), base managers, training centre etc... Get in now, work hard and you will progress quickly.

Well done to all in Sydney I know LOTS of ground crew who have been waiting for ages to fly as well as externals based in Sydney. Have a ball..

Cheers
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