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Qantas Domestic - Wannabes & Recruitment

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Qantas Domestic - Wannabes & Recruitment

Old 5th Sep 2011, 03:49
  #481 (permalink)  
 
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Hey Flitegirl,

so there is now no career progression for JQ CC, the only way is thru MAM?

GC
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Old 5th Sep 2011, 04:29
  #482 (permalink)  
 
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I'm interviewing with MAM tomorrow. I'm really looking forward to it. Thanks for the advice on MAM and how Qantas has been dodgy in the past - it's always good to know so you can be fully prepared. In 6 months we mightn't be getting any shifts - but at least someone stood up and said this is a possibility.

I'm so excited about tomorrow! Who else is going to the Tuesday recruitment day for MAM in Syd?
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Old 5th Sep 2011, 11:26
  #483 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Danfromaus View Post
So Im starting GS on the 12th September-Who else will be there??
Hey dan, when did you find out about GS, how long did it take after you completed medicals and the security clearance?
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Old 6th Sep 2011, 15:43
  #484 (permalink)  
 
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Sent off my passport application, filled out the security check form - do i have to send them anywhere, or take them with me to the assessment day? I am a bit unsure!
Getting a bit on edge, how is everyone else??? It's like a judging contest if you think about it
Also goodluck to everyone, let us know how you go. Reading the above comment about Qantas, it will be interesting to see what happens!
all the best.
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Old 7th Sep 2011, 08:26
  #485 (permalink)  
 
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Andymelb & J.KA did you hear back from MAM yet?

Let me know, I'm waiting for my references to be checked from the Syd recruitment day this week and would like to know how you went.
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Old 7th Sep 2011, 20:32
  #486 (permalink)  
 
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Hey Benneh,
I had my interview on the 8th of august, got the email from MAM on the 19th saying I'd passed the interviews, did my medical on the 25th but still waiting to hear back. So it's been quite a lengthy process but fingers crossed
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 07:51
  #487 (permalink)  
 
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I joined this forum for one reason. To post this letter to finally say goodby to flying with Qantas. I wrote it for all those planning to go to MAM. Its very sad to see the conditions erode for Flight Attendants with every EBA. But as long as 30,000 people per year keep applying the airlines have no reason to make conditions any better. Anyway this is my bit and I hope it helps some of you out who wondering what its like to work as a mam.

So you want to be a flight Attendant for Qantas!

The following is my perspective of what it is like to be a Domestic flight attendant flying for Maurice Alexander Management (MAM) for the client company Qantas.
Many Qantas travellers would be unaware that a good proportion of the Domestic flight attendants working for the flying Kangaroo arenít in fact Qantas employees.
They were recruited by and hired under contractual basis for MAM employment for Qantas airways. The writer is one of these contractors and now that I have chosen to take up employment with another airline I would like to share my experience of what it has been like for the last 5 years.
I do this because at present Qantas is going through a round of Volunteer Redundancies whilst at the same time hiring hundreds of Casual flight attendants. Letís call it the out with the old and too expensive and in with the new and cheap strategy.
So whatís it like to be a MAM flight attendant?
Essentially your job description is exactly the same as a full time employee. (Full time being the original full time agreement and not Qantas Domestic. )
You will start and finish at the same time. You will work together alongside the full time employees. Your working conditions with regards to maximum working hours and minimum rests are governed identically. To the general public you couldnít tell a casual from a full timer. They do exactly the same job.
So whatís the difference I hear you ask? The first thing to point out is that you donít actually work for Qantas. This means that after a certain period of time of working you will not be offered a full time position. I have been working alongside fellow casuals that have been casual for over 8 years. Eight years and no opportunity for career progression. How do you think they will feel when they hit 10 years and donít get any form of congratulatory mention let alone long service leave? Itís humiliating and depressing for the worker involved. Feel like a number? Well as a casual you are!
As mentioned MAM are currently seeking casual flight attendants for Qantas. The ad states the following:
What we can offer
As an employee of MAM Aviation we can offer you:
A career representing an iconic Australian brand Ė Qantas Airways
A dynamic environment with a fantastic team
A flexible working environment & travel benefits



Letís break these bullet points up.

A career representing an iconic Australian brand Ė Qantas Airways
Sure there is no arguing that Qantas is an iconic Australian brand. How long it will be Australian for is arguable. Most astonishing is that word ďcareerĒ. For those of you who are thinking of taking up one of these positions let me assure you of one thing. Being a mam casual is NOT a career. Who are they kidding? Call me crazy but I would assume a career would be permanent with at least 4-6 weeks paid holidays each year. In my last 5 years I have had one holiday and Iím by no means unique. These days for someone to go even 4 weeks without pay is as absurd as a leprechaun running an airline. Catching what Iím pitching?
To me a career indicates opportunity to progress. With a career it should be easy to obtain a home loan. You should feel that what you are doing is at your best interest long term and that your making a difference. Out of the 16 crew I initially trained with there is only 1 left. This person has indicated that they will also be moving on in the near future. So I ask. How can anyone have a career with that level of turnover?
A dynamic environment with a fantastic team
To throw a positive light on this job it is that you will work with some amazing people. Every now and again you come across some tossers who make the job more difficult than it needs be. The beauty of course is that unlike an office youíre not stuck with that person on a day to day basis. If youíre the type of person who gets a kick out of putting a smile on some ones face or simply knowing that youíve just made someoneís day. You will love this part of the job!
As a casual it is wise to learn to switch off to certain galley talk. Unknowingly full timers will talk about things that will just make you want to be at the other end of the aircraft. These are usually the benefits they are getting that you are not entitled to. Most notably these are: holidays, bonuses, staff travel, penalty rates, IPDs days where they have been called out on a day off and make big $$, and bidding. I also try to switch off when its group certificate time and salaries are discussed. This is because as a casual you will make allot less than a full timer.

A flexible working environment & travel benefits
This could be the biggest joke of all. If you like being at work and whilst not at work you enjoy staying at home this is the job for you. As a casual you will on the last day of each month get a roster consisting of 20 duties. You will have no input into which duties you do nor the days you work apart from the 3 days you can request for each month. These 3 days must be consecutive. A term you will learn to hate is AV SPAN. An AV SPAN is a day where you are on call at home for a period of 12 hours but only get paid for 4. These days they make up around 80-90 percent of your roster. You may think oh thatís not so bad for doing nothing. Trust me you will soon change your tune. AV SPAN is like being on home detention. Youíre basically waiting to receive a shift a full timer has called in sick for. These are usually two leg short days that donít pay well and are the busiest. As a casual you will need to get used to doing the undesirable flying. Expect to do the afternoon SYD or MEL return mostly and if you do get an overnight it will be PER doing the red eye home. Speaking for BNE base. Other basis will vary.
So here is the kicker and it happens allot! A common AV SPAN is from 03:00 to 15:00. Crewing can call you from 01:00 till 13:00. So when crewing calls you at 13:00 you are legal to do a 9 hour shift. If that shift starts at 15:00 you could finish at midnight.
This happens all the time and whist the pay is good you soon get tired of being available to the company for over 20 hours. No wonder they are hiring more casuals. What a bargain!
I donít know if itís worth mentioning but you should expect to work every birthday, Easter, Christmas and new years. If you do get one of these days off make sure you buy a lotto ticket also.
And now for travel benefits. After all your a flight attendant. All flight attendants get great travel benefits don t they? WRONG
Up until last year we received zero travel benefits. It took voting one EBA down to get a form of staff travel that is more pathetic than a metro Shane Warne. Staff travel consists of two concessional tickets for you and one nominated partner per year. Concession is only available on Qantas flights excluding Jet Star, Qantas Link and code share flights.
And here is what you have to do:

4. Access to the Rebate Travel Benefit
4.1 You must complete a Rebate travel application (on a MAM Travel Form) and either fax it to the MAM office on 03 9370 9063 or email it to [email protected].
4.2 Payment for rebate travel tickets must be by credit card. A fuel levy component cost may be added to the cost of all (Domestic and International) rebate travel tickets issued. This fuel levy cost may be changed at any time without notice. Should the travel not take place a credit will be made to the card originally used to book the ticket.
NOTE
If your credit payment is declined your entitlement to rebate travel will be withdrawn for a period of three months.
4.3 MAM office will fax your application document to Sydney Qantas staff travel office.
4.4 Qantas staff-travel office will email a return reference Number for domestic and/or international e-ticket to the employee directly.
4.5 Applications for travel must be submitted in accordance with;
(a) For Domestic travel:
(i) 7 days notice is required.
(ii) An e-ticket will be issued to the employee.
(b) For International travel:
(i) 10 days notice is required.
(ii) An e-ticket will be issued to the employee.
4.6 Qantas Staff Travel Office is open to assist you with your travel enquiries from:
 Monday to Friday Ė 0830 ó 1645 hours
 Weekends and Public Holidays 0800 ó 1600 (for same day or next day travel ONLY)
 Contact telephone number 03 9658 5920
Note: Charges apply for some services such as fare quotes or requests for replacement documents. Please seek advice regarding current charges from MAM Administration.
Got all that!
....and by which time the flights you have been looking for have been filled up!
But donít worry because if youíre smart you realize that with your priority being so low (75) you wonít bother with it to start with. Youíd have a better chance getting on the next NASA flight to the moon.
So there you have it. Make of it what you will and I hope my ranting will give someone out there a better idea of what theyíre getting into. I understand that companies need to make money. But at the risk of pissing off all your staff so they can award themselves bigger bonuses. I donít think so. If thatís the spirit of Australia Iíll stick to beer thanks!


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Old 9th Sep 2011, 10:57
  #488 (permalink)  
 
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While I understand that some have poor experiences and feelings towards airlines, the fact is, everything is explained to you before you're employed. You know the conditions. With a tiny bit of research, anyone can see that QF is no longer recruiting full time, offering redundancies almost yearly & that your chances of transfer to full time are non existent.

As far as I'm concerned, if you take on a casual role & expect more, that's your naivety.

When it comes down to it, QF is a business & they're not in a good way at the moment. They're doing what they need to to ensure that they don't go under like so so many Australian airlines have.
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Old 10th Sep 2011, 02:53
  #489 (permalink)  
 
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An excellent representation of how it really is. Even though mostly negative it is important that crew wannabes get information like this. I experienced the same issues from Sydney base and I was one of very many casuals that felt that way.

I don't know of any casuals from my training school that are still there. I don't catch up with many of my old MAM friends anymore, purely because I can't handle the constant whinging about their jobs...

well said casualnomore
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Old 10th Sep 2011, 11:34
  #490 (permalink)  
 
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MAM - Brisbane Interviews 8th Sep

Hey Guys,

Anyone that past the panel heard anything yet?

PM me if you attended, I'd love to hear how everyone is going with the process.

Cheers
VOZZ
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Old 11th Sep 2011, 01:09
  #491 (permalink)  
 
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I made it to the panel in Sydney on the 6th but no news yet....
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Old 13th Sep 2011, 08:11
  #492 (permalink)  
 
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casualnomore

Your post is quite accurate, HOWEVER you fail to mention that many hundreds of MAM casual crew have in fact been offered permanent position going back some 7-8 years. From memory the first MAM casuals offered permanent positions were into the short haul base in Perth employed under the old short haul EBA directly employed by Qantas. Some of those crew are now Customer Service Managers (CSM) and most were transferred back to the east coast within 1-2 years.

Many hundreds of MAM crew are now employed by QF Cabin Crew Australia (QCCA) flying in the international division most on the A380 and many of them Customer Service Supervisors (CSS) and Customer Service Managers (CSM) and Business First Flight Attendants (BFA).

You also fail to mention that many are now employed by Qantas Domestic in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth and again some as CSM.

Qantas is currently not recruiting that doesnt mean that crew are not required in the domestic division and MAM and casuals have been used for many years and when permanent recruitment opens again MAM are the first considered and offered the opportunity to apply (it may seem harsh but yes you need to apply).

Did you ever sit back and wonder casualnomore why you after all your years of service were not offered a permanent position?
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Old 13th Sep 2011, 09:23
  #493 (permalink)  
 
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galleyhag i take it from your last sentance your inferring I am not good at my job? Perhaps a sh#% stirrer....

I can assure you neither are true. Truth is QD or QCCA has never been offered in BNE and with a family I had no inclination to move interstate.

Secondly even if it was offered I am positive I wouldn t move accross to QCD or QCCA as the only benefit is holidays and staff travel. On the downside are long hours away from home.

You failed to mention that QD has a turn over just as high as MAM casuals. The crew are working very long hours with no flexibility. QD sick days are off the richter scale.

Qantas spent allot of time and money setting up QD and are now ditching it for hiring multiple schools of casuals. WHY? Cause QD isn t working?

I think it could work but it would require a form of rotational bidding system accros the board.

Galleyhag my point was to paint a picture of what to expect. Nothing more nothing less.

Its obvious with your amount of posts that you live and breathe flying.

Good on ya darl!
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Old 13th Sep 2011, 14:12
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Your original post stated " This means that after a certain period of time of working you will not be offered a full time position. I have been working alongside fellow casuals that have been casual for over 8 years. Eight years and no opportunity for career progression."

The point I was making is that statement is blatantly untrue, permanent positions have been offered if you choose not to take them up due to your location that choice is yours it is not the fault of Qantas. Many Brisbane based MAM casuals commute that choice is yours and yours only.

As for the hours maybe that is your perception but if crew choose to accept permanent positions they are aware of the hours. QCCA crew can work up to 240 hours over an 8 week period, I think QD is something like 150 per month to normal people they are not long hours. It is true the hours are more than Qantas mainline crew and the pay less that is just the reality of having a flying career now. Do I agree no, but they are the facts.

I think you would be very surprised to hear the attrition rate at QCCA is quite low, they have the flexibility to bid for days off and if you ask any Brisbane QCCA commuters the trip swap system gives them great flexibility to manage their flying and reduce their hours if they so choose.

This point makes me wonder if you even do work for MAM as a Qantas Flight Attendant as you would know that QCCA is quite successful for the business. They are not ditching it and they are not hiring casual cabin crew for the international division which QCCA crew operate. Furthermore there is no such company as QCD its actually called QD as in Qantas Domestic and I am surprised you are not aware of this (maybe it was typo on your part).

Exactly you painted the picture and so did I, I filled in the gaps you choose to leave out. The fact is and you should know this better than anyone that flying changes, crewing requirements change, the business strategy changes, casual crew have always been used and will continue to be used that doesnt mean that permanent positions will not be offered in the future.
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Old 14th Sep 2011, 03:44
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Thanks for the heads up re - MAM!!
Had an assessment day tomorrow in Perth & I was a bit uncertain but after reading about what to expect - it has helped me make my decision = don't go!!
cheers hey
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Old 14th Sep 2011, 04:31
  #496 (permalink)  
 
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I had a phone call from MAM today to get more information for my references. Apparently they are going to call them today. Anyone else heard anything from the Sydney recruitment day on the 6th??
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Old 15th Sep 2011, 21:32
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Exclamation Notes from an observer

Dear Wannabes

As an interested reader, I feel compelled to share my thoughts & observations.

I understand that maturity & life experience are selection criteria for the role of FA. Therefore I find it incredible that posters here continually display such naivety & inexperience with regard to recruitment & the role of labour hire companies.



  • Donít expect a response (yes or no) from any recruiter; especially not in any time frame they give. This does not happen in the real world so donít expect it here. If they want you, they will contact you & you will be pleasantly surprised.


  • Donít expect that your ďsacrificeĒ & out of pocket expenses to participate in the recruitment will have any impact/bearing on the outcome/selection. They have thousands of people to choose from, they will choose the candidates they want & you donít know what type that is. Just do your best & hope but donít expect.


  • Understand what labour hire companies do & what being a contractor (that is what you would be to the client company) means. Yes, you will be expected to do the same work & for intents & purposes be indistinguishable from employees of the client company (in this case Qantas) to their customers. However you are not an employee of that client company. Contractors are not entitled to annual leave, sick leave, etc. You are compensated for this in your hourly rate & so will have to fund this type of leave out of your regular pay. Donít become a contractor if you expect any favours/special treatment from the client company. Just be pleasantly surprised if it does happen.


  • Read & understand any contract you sign. If you donít get advice from someone who does, donít take what you hear from a recruiter as the literal truth Ė it may be but probably wonít be.


Please everyone; do not enter this process with your rose-coloured glasses on. If you do, you will gain some valuable life experience but potentially at a huge cost to yourself.


All the best


sue_in_oz
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Old 16th Sep 2011, 05:55
  #498 (permalink)  
 
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Talking eptember brisbane

anyone at the 8th september interviews in brisbane heard anything yet ?

Last edited by sammay; 17th Sep 2011 at 11:59. Reason: Text speak
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Old 19th Sep 2011, 04:10
  #499 (permalink)  
 
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Can anyone please shed some light on the questions they ask you at assessment day?

For those currently working for MAM, how many flying hours are you doing at the moment?

Good luck to everyone with their applications... I hope to be working with some of you soon!!
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Old 21st Sep 2011, 06:15
  #500 (permalink)  
 
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MAM recruitment day

So I have a recruitment day in Adelaide this Friday with MAM.. goes from 8:30am - 5pm. I'm getting a little nervous as I have never been to anything like this in my life! No idea what to expect

It says to bring a photo of yourself in professional business attire - does this photo have to be special and fancy or can it just be taken at home?

How many others come along to the recruitment day?

Is there any general advice anyone can give me?

Thanks!
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