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-   Biz Jets, Ag Flying, GA etc. (https://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc-36/)
-   -   Netjets Europe Conditions (https://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc/612431-netjets-europe-conditions.html)

Klimax 14th Nov 2018 16:10


Originally Posted by EatMyShorts! (Post 10311064)
The issue is that Netjets has a good reputation, but when people see the contractual conditions, primarily the money and pension scheme, they take their application back.

For the rookie pilot, I'd still see NJE as a great training institution and a kick start to the corporate and business jet world. 3-5 years at NJE and you'll be loaded with good training and flying hours, and your next step is to enter a better paying large cabin business jet operator and get your command a year or two later. NJE pilots are respected at the private jet management companies and they'll be happy to welcome them on-board, upgrade and remunerate according to equipment and client. NJE can function just like some of the airlines, as a stepping stone, that benefits the pilot. For the more experienced corporate pilot, I don't really see any good reason to go for NJE, unless you're unemployed or desperate for the 6/5 roster style offered. For sure you wouldn't go to NJE for the money - even before considering the "on-shore" setup NJE operate with.

dirk85 14th Nov 2018 17:16

In my experience large cabin business jet operator do not care much at all in which company you were working before: it is mostly about connections, and the type ratings that you have. Having flown for NJE is not going to give any significant advantage in that regard.

Globally Challenged 14th Nov 2018 17:34

Speaking from a painful position of experience - other operators (well mine at least) show no interest in upgrading experienced FOs and appear to have no forward plan.

So when a captain job comes up, their lengthy upgrade process effectively means the existing FOs (the 3 FOs on our gig have 11-13 years experience of bizjet) don’t get a look in and an external (sometimes non-rated) captain gets helicoptered in.

So while it it may take time at NJE, at least everyone gets a fair crack at upgrade and no special handshakes required.

Klimax 14th Nov 2018 23:20

Not my experience from Hong Kong operators. Upgrading FOs from within was normal. Maybe the Swiss and Austrians operators have a different policy. I stand to be corrected.

Globally Challenged 15th Nov 2018 05:41

I’m in a large UK operator (although they do have a few other AOCs)

Moonwalker 15th Nov 2018 10:17


Originally Posted by Klimax (Post 10311153)
For the rookie pilot, I'd still see NJE as a great training institution and a kick start to the corporate and business jet world. 3-5 years at NJE and you'll be loaded with good training and flying hours, and your next step is to enter a better paying large cabin business jet operator and get your command a year or two later. NJE pilots are respected at the private jet management companies and they'll be happy to welcome them on-board, upgrade and remunerate according to equipment and client. NJE can function just like some of the airlines, as a stepping stone, that benefits the pilot. For the more experienced corporate pilot, I don't really see any good reason to go for NJE, unless you're unemployed or desperate for the 6/5 roster style offered. For sure you wouldn't go to NJE for the money - even before considering the "on-shore" setup NJE operate with.

Yeah and then you come out on the market with a Phenom 300 rating.... Good luck. Not even the airlines would be interesting in you and if they are there is a risk you have to start from the bottom in a TP operator or as a Cadet in a low cost A320/737 operator.

Klimax 15th Nov 2018 10:28


Originally Posted by Moonwalker (Post 10311830)
Yeah and then you come out on the market with a Phenom 300 rating.... Good luck. Not even the airlines would be interesting in you and if they are there is a risk you have to start from the bottom in a TP operator or as a Cadet in a low cost A320/737 operator.

Yup, as mentioned, NJE is about the quality training received and the general daily ops of the company and to some extend the 6/5 work schedule, most of the rest is just [email protected]

Delta12 16th Nov 2018 16:19


Originally Posted by Klimax (Post 10311846)
Yup, as mentioned, NJE is about the quality training received and the general daily ops of the company and to some extend the 6/5 work schedule, most of the rest is just [email protected]

Bolt statement :D
You sure you know the company or just a bit grim or jealous ?

Delta12 16th Nov 2018 16:40

PPJN must be operated by a true NetJets hater :ooh:

Information full of bollox, as has been in the past.

"No quarterly limits, expect 5/3 during the summer"
-The only way one would find himself with a 5/3 roster is volunteering for extra days big time.

"Time to upgrade ESTIMATE 10 to 15 years"
-Good to know someone finally found that famous crystal ball :ok:

"Growth currently and expected to be minimal"
-Must be right if they say so, its just the opposite from what I witness

At least they finally stopped promoting VistaJet as heaven on earth

EatMyShorts! 16th Nov 2018 20:17

Sorry Delta, but there's a grain of truth to it and you should quote the information from PPJN correctly, without leaving context out ;)

Netjets Europe pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools

Let me do it:

Now 204/208 working days available. No quarterly limits, expect 5/3 during the summer.
=no quarterly limits is technically not correct when you opt for the 204 or 208 option, but effectively you will work 5/3 on a number of occasions, during the summer peak. Working 5/3 a few times in a row definitely feels like "no quarterly limits", or are we just spoilt pussies?

Regarding quarterly limits the information at PPJN is correct:

200 working days per year. Max. 49 in 1st and 4th quarter and 51 in 2nd and 3rd quarter. 6 Special Days off per year (request only, not guaranteed and do not count towards 200 working days). Normally, 6 on/5 off, 7 on/6off long range fleet, but can be changed if training event/SDO/Vacation in quarter, in reality that means always. 6/5 is semi-stable. Roster published 1.5 months in advance.
Upgrades:

No DEC. Upgrade by seniority only. Time to upgrade ESTIMATE 10 to 15 years, greatly dependent company growth and pilots leaving. Growth currently and expected to be minimal. Pilots leaving moderate. Pilots leaving due to lack of pension and career perspectives
This statement is a bit over the top, regarding the years until upgrade, it is rather a worst-case scenario. Realistically we are looking at 5 to 10 years for new hires, depending on growth. Our growth is minimal - do you remember 2004 until 2009? That was hyper-growth, now we are growing AT LEAST slowly, better than stagnation.

I believe that most of us at NJE would see Vista as a step down in their careers, unless you are looking for a possible quick command - in case that this is still possible there. Most pilots who have left this and last year headed for the airlines, a few stayed in corporate aviation, but took a step up, e.g. on a BBJ or G650 etc..

Delta12 16th Nov 2018 20:48


Originally Posted by EatMyShorts! (Post 10313155)
Sorry Delta, but there's a grain of truth to it and you should quote the information from PPJN correctly, without leaving context out ;)

Netjets Europe pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools

Let me do it:
=no quarterly limits is technically not correct when you opt for the 204 or 208 option, but effectively you will work 5/3 on a number of occasions, during the summer peak. Working 5/3 a few times in a row definitely feels like "no quarterly limits", or are we just spoilt pussies?

Regarding quarterly limits the information at PPJN is correct

Thanks for helping me out EMS, but.... PPJN clearly states that in Summer you have to expect a 5/3 Roster ! The 204 or 208 option is mentioned in the previous sentence, its clear as mud and very confusing what they put there.

You only do 5/3 when you apply for working more, which you do not have to !

Obviously, you have to accept a 5/3 Roster if you VOLUNTEER for extra duty.

If you volunteer for jack shit, you do not work a 5/3 pattern.

They moved NetJets from Portugal to the UK on PPJN.
As far as I am aware our AOC is in Portugal.

IMHO the guys behind PPJN are constantly bashing NJ.

Klimax 16th Nov 2018 22:54


Originally Posted by Delta12 (Post 10312954)
Bolt statement :D
You sure you know the company or just a bit grim or jealous ?

Jealous? Are you joking or for real? That’s actually quite funny! Just in case ur serious - the answer is NO!

Klimax 16th Nov 2018 23:00


Originally Posted by Delta12 (Post 10313166)
IMHO the guys behind PPJN are constantly bashing NJ.

It seems that people, that don’t seem to share YOUR opinion on NJE, they are all just “bashing” the company you work for. A tart close minded it appears like.

Delta12 17th Nov 2018 08:47


Originally Posted by Klimax (Post 10313251)


It seems that people, that don’t seem to share YOUR opinion on NJE, they are all just “bashing” the company you work for. A tart close minded it appears like.

Beside... There is opinions and there is facts :ugh:

His dudeness 17th Nov 2018 09:44


Originally Posted by Delta12 (Post 10313430)
Beside... There is opinions and there is facts :ugh:

And there is the fact that how you perceive facts directly influences how you form opinions.

So in short its simply personal thing. E.g. the pay at NJE would have been a very good one for me, say 12 years ago and these days I wouldn´t like to earn that little. When NJE offered all the options for the pilots it did in 2009 (?) when things looked dire, I was very surprised that they did that and not just sacked everybody deemed to be surplus. I personally know a pilot who could stay on with one of the offered options who would have been sacked in most if not all other outfits. Took a financial damage but kept the job.

PS: I hate NJE, cause they want to take my job away and they really try hard. Thats not the pilots, but the company itself, I hasten to add.

EatMyShorts! 17th Nov 2018 11:09

@Delta12: I think you misunderstood the information at PPJN. Let me quote the entire paragraph:

200 working days per year. Max. 49 in 1st and 4th quarter and 51 in 2nd and 3rd quarter. 6 Special Days off per year (request only, not guaranteed and do not count towards 200 working days). Normally, 6 on/5 off, 7 on/6off long range fleet, but can be changed if training event/SDO/Vacation in quarter, in reality that means always. 6/5 is semi-stable. Roster published 1.5 months in advance. Now 204/208 working days available. No quarterly limits, expect 5/3 during the summer.
The author stated that there are quarterly limits (49/51/51/49). In the end he explains that you can now volunteer for 204/208 which effectively removes those quarterly limits as you will end up with 4 or 8 more days during the summer months, resulting in 5/3 rosters. It was probably written by a non-native English speaker and the wording is a bit ambiguous, but somehow even I understood it with my faked LPC 6 :D

I also would like to point out that anyone can edit the content, I actually just applied some corrections to the name of the operator, its country and the duty days to make it more clear. They are not being shown yet, I guess they need to be approved by an admin/mod first. Also, don't overlook their Disclaimer:

Disclaimer: The entries on this site are provided by voluntary contributers. Neither PPJN nor its site administrators can be held responsible for any entries herein. We rely on the honesty and integrity of our contributers. By using this website you are agreeing to these terms.
But let's not argue over little things like these... sorry to the other readers here, we normally don't have these kinds of discussions on the line. And for the record: I really enjoy working for Netjets, I have been at this outfit since 2004...



@His dudeness: I understand that our company is a potential threat to your job. As long as your boss is tight on money, you are not in danger :) NJE is quite costly for owners and not everyone appreciates the reasons why we are so expensive.

seymoursigg 17th Nov 2018 18:09

Not sure I would recommend Netjets. 6 Year upgrade for new hires??? Difficult to predict but nowhere near the mark. Although having said that, the forced redeployment of Gulfstream pilots to the Excel fleet? may prompt those to leave creating a few more openings.
No pension to speak of nor any prospect of one.

I don't see how they would be able to attract anybody given the current conditions?

Look elsewhere first would be my advice, there are good opportunities out there.

Arthur1815 17th Nov 2018 18:54


Originally Posted by seymoursigg (Post 10313752)
Not sure I would recommend Netjets. 6 Year upgrade for new hires??? Difficult to predict but nowhere near the mark. Although having said that, the forced redeployment of Gulfstream pilots to the Excel fleet? may prompt those to leave creating a few more openings.
No pension to speak of nor any prospect of one.

I don't see how they would be able to attract anybody given the current conditions?

Look elsewhere first would be my advice, there are good opportunities out there.

One post, all wrong. Disregard

EatMyShorts! 17th Nov 2018 21:11

Really, Arthur...

Arthur1815 17th Nov 2018 23:33

Yes, but the required response about fleet plan and refleeting is not for here. The first hires we abviously could not attract have already been released to the line.


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