Manchester madness - security
 

New procedure in EGCC for us types. We’re operating in from London for the game on Sunday. They’re going to search and seal the aircraft. Quite what they’re going to search the aircraft for no-one seems to know. Then the crew has to traipse across to the airport pass office for a temporary airport pass. Then we go to the FBO, hang out there until the game is over and then go through security, back out to the aircraft, surrender our temporary airport passes, unseal the aircraft. I get that warm, fuzzy feeling that we’re going to be so much safer than in the past.

Is that only for "the game" ?

Security types and their "methods".... nothing achieved, but more idle work...

They doing this for all the cars in the car park, too?

Ahhhhh, Manchester madness.

Company I worked for had a medical team overnight in MCR following droping a patient off at a local hospital. Stayed in hotel and back to MR next morningto go out to retrieve another patient overseas. They turned up at security, then somone wanted to confiscate 500ml and 1ltr bags of intravenous fluids, supervisor called and informed in no uncertain terms if that happened and any unforseen emergency occured thatthey would all be called to give evidence in front of the Coroner.

Pity they never know what they are looking at when they x ray the bags.:eek::eek::eek:

Security at EGCC at the FBO is a clusterf*ck of the highest order. The FBO apologised before hand but oh boy... Cannot differential between hold luggage and cabin luggage. Ridiculous process of crew screening, cue numerous door closing/opening processes...

Principal was so incensed about their treatment they swore never to return. Considering they was there to donate money to a cause in Manchester, I'd say security scored an own goal.

Go down the road to Liverpool.

CAA have been doing the rounds and new procedures at Signature luton and Farnborough as well. I thought the DFT had security jurisdiction but what do i know.. Guess the CAA need to justify their existence till brexit

I. Hate. Manchester.

As a pax. When I was commercial crew. Now as private crew.

I. Hate. Manchester.

Luton got torn apart about 4 years ago for its security and immigration controls.

The DfT are still responsible for legislating and policy (as before), however the CAA took on the enforcement role around 3 years ago now.

Quite a few operators seem to use Hawarden (EGNR) now too

Developing situation - this is going to be interesting.

We’re operating from London; the boss going to the game, plan is for the crew to get some rest and then head to an Asian destination. All the crew agree its better to stay on board the aircraft as it will be the best rest.

As of this moment the authorities are insisting that even if the crew remain on board the aircraft they need to proceed to the Airport Pass Office for the issue of a Temporary Airport Pass. Handler advises that the process of issuing the Temporary Airport Pass typically takes an hour and a half.

The mind boggles.

This entire situation appears to be driven by the airport Compliance Officer.

Is issuing a temporary airport pass requirement in the power of this "gentlemen"?

Is there not legislation that would give license holders an exception ?

18 seat aircraft; 3 crew (remaining on the aircraft) and 3 pax (arriving & departing).

As is normal I have an airport security pass for my home-base and do not hold an airport security pass for any of the other couple of hundred airports we visit.

This gentleman is conducting this process under the pretext that he is ensuring compliance with current CAA regulations. If we are subject to being obliged to apply for temporary airport passes I intend to take up the matter directly with the UK CAA. I’ll keep you posted.

Happy to report (in a sense) that they have backed down and if the crew remain on board the aircraft no temporary airport pass is necessary. If the crew wish to proceed to the FBO then they will be required to proceed to the airport pass office for the issue of the temporary airside pass.

Which makes even less sense... is that procedure only "for the game" or will it be standard from now on ?

So a fixed wing air ambulance crew arrive at MCR with a patient on life support, are they and the transfering ambulance going to have to go through this procedure with a possible long wait in the pass office.

It's not really sensible to have a patient waiting in an ambulance for any period of time in such a condition and will they need an airside pass. THIS PUTS THE PATIENT AT RISK, or if a relative needs a toilet will thEy have to have a pass as well.

This does not look to have been thought through, but there again it's MCR, will the same be coming in at Stansted, if not why not, they are the same group, or is this a local manager trying to 'make a name' for themselves?

Theatre..it's just theatre....enjoy the performance, even if it is somewhat less well scripted than Shakespeare.

Security at UK in general is becoming insane. Last week, they removed my oversize toothpaste because the handling agent was not able to ''check the bag in'' and to ''put it in the aeroplane's hold''. My offer to squeeze half of it out was declined. The airplane involved was a 747F, and I can't remember the brand of my toothpaste.
It's a battle we will never win...

Typical 747 driver ... the size of my toothpaste has to represent the size of my fuselage ;-)

Manchester has always been one of the worst places in the UK for security, they are just a bunch of power drunk people who have never had a pragmatic thought in there lives.

Try EGNJ (Humberside) - they make Manchester look slack ;-)

I used to work for MAplc where I was OPS3 (Airfield Duty Manager).

The run-ins I had with colleagues in Security were many and various, though I did occasionally win.

Screening by use of scanners, physical examination, confiscation of hazardous objects and profiling all aim to reduce the terrorist threat of hijacking or destroying the aircraft in which terrorists are being carried.

Now I know this is a bit radical, but has any bizjet owner hijacked his or her own a/c using nail clippers or carried a bomb on board intending to blow up their pride and joy?

I doubt it but a charter passenger might.

Think there's a lot of ignorance on the part of certain business aviation operators about the rules (and among most charter brokers selling the flights), where outbound chartered flights above ten tonnes MTOW are supposed to have the same screening protocols as if it were a commercial airline flight - there are no differences whatsoever. Charter brokers and then the operators, don't tend to give their passengers an appropriate heads-up to expect to have to go through screening in exactly the same way they would for a commercial airline flight - the same rules for hold and cabin bags apply. This, despite the fact that on almost all business aircraft types the 'hold' luggage is accessible from the cabin in flight. Uninformed Biz Av passengers turn up expecting to sail through with near no checks on them or their bags, when in the UK at least, it has to be by-the-book and exactly the same as if going on the Ryanair flight. What confuses some is when they flit between using a 'private', non-public transport flight one day and then a chartered flight the next and they forget that all the screening requirements kick in. Likewise they experience a 'lighter touch' approach at some FBOs versus the correct and compliant 'by-the-book' protocols and complain accordingly. Those airports/FBOs applying the 'lighter touch', soon find the DfT (or other national equivalents) coming down on them very heavily when they hear of malpractice or indeed the rights and permission to do screening in their FBOs withdrawn completely.

On the crew front, where you get some airports with separate airside zones from 'Critical Parts', crews should be able to go freely airside, but not into the Critical Parts where they still have to be screened.

Well it was an experience but thanks to the brilliant efforts of our handler (Signature) and our decision not to leave the aircraft, there were no real issues.

We parked on the stand and the pax were not allowed to disemark into the FBO vans (parked at the bottom of the steps) because a security cordon had not yet been established around the aircraft. The security perimeter consists of 3 or 4 paltry little fences on wheels they drag around behind a Pajero. These arrived and were ceremoniously placed in front of the nose and at each wingtip (I never looked at the tail). A white van with at least 3 reflective-jacket types arrived and now it was “safe enough” for the pax to disemark and off they went.

My biggest relief was not having to engage on a single occasion with these security folk. They sat in their van at the edge of the virtual security perimeter and watched us sleep for hours on end. I can’t wait to see how much we’re going to pay for that facility.

Departure was a little complicated by these procedures. We needed to de-ice and when the de-icing truck arrived he wasn’t allowed to breach the virtual security perimeter. It took around 20 minutes for the guy with the Pajero to arrive and tow away these force-field generators (disguised as fences with wheels). Then when de-icing was over another bloke in another Pajero had to be found as he’s in charge of determing if there is any FOD lurking around.

Simple as that. The guys from Signature made a miserable situation on a tatty day a breeze.

This was entirely a private flight fairflyer; we see little value in any additional safety measures above what is practical and common-sense yet we have learnt to dance the local rumba to satisfy the authorities.

I do understand that the UK CAA has indicated that if any local airport management wish to impose any measures or restrictions greater than that mandated by law they will not challenge or question such procedures.

Till the next one.

4HP, there are other airports within 40 minutes of MCR, you bosses choice.

I guess you are not wrong but then every fukcing airport makes up their own rules. Yesterday I went through security at EDDS GAT as crew just with one other crew, no pax, private flight. I was allowed to put my suitcase on the belt, after the screening I`m not allowed to touch it until it is in the van. From the van I´m allowed again to put it either the hold or the cabin. WTF ?

I´m not against security, but I refuse to accept rules and regs that make no sense at all or might even serve to make a safety risk in their own right. If I can´t get deiced in time because of somebody making up rules that are nuts, then....

Yup, that's the key, whether going through airport-controlled security/airside access or going through FBO-controlled screening, they're all doing it slightly differently, with different protocols and so that's hundreds of different ways crew or passengers (and their bags) might expect to be dealt with which is a nightmare when managing expectations. There's of course supposed to be one common standard across Europe but, surprise, surprise, everyone has their own interpretation of what's acceptable when processing 'business aviation' flights which most consider the least likely threat from a security standpoint. Again, when the authorities find inconsistencies and bending of the rules, they do come down on the perpetrators fairly heavily. Similarly, they have been playing catch-up in the UK over recent years making non-commercial airports that do have the ability to conduct screening, seriously tighten up on airside access and controls - 'Directed Airports'. The same applies to FBOs on the commercial airports, they get audited and clobbered for non-compliance, then tighten everything up. Bottom line, a chartered flight above 10 tonnes has to be treated exactly the same as an airliner, as would a private flight in fact above 45.5 tonnes (i.e. a G650ER)

What an absolute shower and MCR are making life problematical for everyone.

Counter-terrorism detectives sacked for 'skiving' on nightshifts at Manchester Airport - Manchester Evening News