PPRuNe Forums - Challenger beyond repair after in-flight upset?

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)

- Biz Jets, Ag Flying, GA etc. (https://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc-36/)

- - Challenger beyond repair after in-flight upset? (https://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc/590638-challenger-beyond-repair-after-flight-upset.html)

Be careful there Empty Cruise. I made a post several pages back wondering if the Challenger's huge height loss and over-speed were possibly a result of crew actions rather than the initial upset. I was told to keep quiet by some aggressive chap that knows all about laminar flow aerofoils and to wait for the final report! But yep, those FDR traces do indeed tell a story... Can't wait for that final report!

Well... personally, I find laminar airfoils work best when not flying sideways, but that is of course just an opinion :hmm:

A recently updated article with analysis of the BFU interim report from Simon at the Av Herald:

Quote:

Accident: Emirates A388 over Arabian Sea on Jan 7th 2017, wake turbulence sends business jet in uncontrolled descent

By Simon Hradecky, created Tuesday, May 16th 2017 14:36Z, last updated Friday, Jun 30th 2017 17:18Z

On Jun 22nd 2017 the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) released their Safety Information Bulletin 2017-10, the draft of which had already been covered in earlier coverage.

On May 16th 2017 Germany's BFU released their January 2017 Bulletin in German (the interim report covering this occurrence now also available separately in English) reporting that the Challenger (serial number 5464), carrying 6 passengers and 3 crew, got out of control about one minute after it had been overflown by an Airbus A380. The aircraft lost about 9000 feet before the crew was able to regain control. Two passengers received serious, one member of the crew as well as two other passengers minor injuries. The aircraft diverted to Muscat. As the occurrence happened over international waters the BFU is responsible for the investigation assisted by the investigation bodies of Oman, India, United Arab Emirates, Canada, USA and France.

The BFU reported the Challenger had departed Male at 06:52Z, reached cruise flight level 340 at 07:20Z and was enroute along L894 to waypoint KITAL. At 08:18Z the crew reported passing waypoint GOLEM.

An Airbus A380-800, serial number 224, (Editorial note: although the BFU is not permitted by German law to identify aircraft, the narrative is consistent with Emirates A388 A6-EUL) had departed Dubai at 06:55Z for Sydney (Australia). The aircraft was enroute at FL350 in southeasterly direction.

Analysis of flight data of both aircraft showed, that at 08:38:07Z the A380 passed over the Challenger at 1000 feet vertical separation, about one minute later at 08:38:54Z the Challenger, on autopilot, began to rotate to the right around its longitudinal axis despite ailerons deflected to the left and a light vertical acceleration began. Over the next 10 seconds a right bank of 6-8 degrees were recorded, then the right bank increased to 42 degrees within one second despite left aileron deflection of 20 degrees, a vertical acceleration of +1.6G occurred followed by a vertical acceleration of -3.2G one second later. 13 seconds after the begin of the upset the autopilot disconnected and a master warning activated for 7 seconds.

More at this link:

Accident: Emirates A388 over Arabian Sea on Jan 7th 2017, wake turbulence sends business jet in uncontrolled descent

Meanwhile here in Australia, the major broadsheet has it's own aviation section.
It's just a pity they don't have any aviation journalists……

Quote:

…..and in the dramatic roll of a Learjet over Oman in January.

The Learjet, a Bombardier Challenger 64, was written off by insurers after a midair roll and 10,000-feet drop after it passed under an Airbus A380 going in the opposite direction.

I find it interesting that the incident aircraft will never fly again even though there was no visible damage to the airframe.

Remember the Cjina Airlines 747SP that got into a spin over the Pacific years back. Here is a quote of some of the damage and its continued flying career....

" The aircraft was significantly damaged by the excessive G-forces. The wings were permanently bent upwards by 2 inches (5 cm), the inboard main landing gear lost two actuator doors, and the two inboard main gear struts were left dangling.[1] Most affected was the tail, where large outer parts of the horizontal stabilizer had been ripped off. The entire left outboard elevator had been lost along with its actuator, which had been powered by the hydraulic system that ruptured and drained.[1]

After repairs were made to the plane, it returned to service on April 25, 1985. It continued in service for nearly 12 years "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Airlines_Flight_006

Perhaps it was a more valuable aircraft. But it does show that a permanently damaged aircraft can sometimes continue to legally fly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by C441 (Post 9823140)

Meanwhile here in Australia, the major broadsheet has it's own aviation section.
It's just a pity they don't have any aviation journalists……

Ah but in point of fact, the design that became the Challenger was the last design of Bill Lear's. Bombardier inherited it when they bought Learjet from Gates.

Ttfn

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivor toolbox (Post 10118577)

Ah but in point of fact, the design that became the Challenger was the last design of Bill Lear's. Bombardier inherited it when they bought Learjet from Gates.

Ttfn

Yep , the LearFan 600 :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by CL300 (Post 10119112)

Yep , the LearFan 600 :-)

Actually, it was LearStar 600, LearFan 2100 was a twin engine, single propeller turbo-prop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowmore (Post 10119182)

Actually, it was LearStar 600, LearFan 2100 was a twin engine, single propeller turbo-prop.

Correct.. Brain cells start to get old

if they only start to get old at 98, you´re very well... :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivor toolbox (Post 10118577)

Ah but in point of fact, the design that became the Challenger was the last design of Bill Lear's. Bombardier inherited it when they bought Learjet from Gates.

Ttfn

Wrongo! BBD acquired the CL-600 design from Crown-corporation Canadair before BBD acquired Lear. The 600 design was produced for about 8 years by Canadair, then by BBD before Lear was acquired by BBD. in fact, the Lear family sued BBD for royalties that were part of Canadair’s deal when they bought the design rights from Bill Lear. The issue ripened when BBD built the CRJ and the Lear family wanted to be paid royalties as a derivative design. BBD, in Canadian court lost and settled for a large sum, which has never gone down well with either side.

The Learstar 600 was actually a smaller diameter fuselage than the final CL-600 due to freighter design for FDX. The CL-300 series is closer to the Lear 600 fuse.

GF

This serious incident happened over 3 years ago. Is there still nothing more to read than an Interim Report?

I don't often post twice in succession, but it's now over 4 years since this accident, 4 years!!! - I can't find any update since the Interim Report.

Surely the report is out there somewhere, or is this now a p@@ing match (with lawyers) about whose fault the damage was, i.e. crew mishandling v initial upset?

Come on BFU, you have a duty to publish the Final Report ASAP!