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-   -   VP-CAZ Premier 1A Mar 4/13 crash-France (https://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc/509407-vp-caz-premier-1a-mar-4-13-crash-france.html)

robbreid 4th Mar 2013 13:53

VP-CAZ Premier 1A Mar 4/13 crash-France
ASN Aircraft accident Raytheon 390 Premier 1A VP-CAZ Annemasse Airport

robbreid 4th Mar 2013 15:01

Annemasse Airport @ OurAirports

avionimc 4th Mar 2013 16:36

See article, pictures and ground track on another thread in this same forum:
Crash at LFLI (post from FlexJet).
Any preliminary comments from Premier 1A pilots?
Would it be likely, or possible, that the control locks were still in place?

robbreid 4th Mar 2013 20:51

Survivor reportedly is the pilots 15 year old daughter who received non-life threatening, but serious injuries.

Two killed as plane crashes into residential area in French Alps: Young girl found alive in wreckage | Mail Online

Liftboy 4th Mar 2013 21:45

Control lock

See the picture below - control wheel lock on the Premier I/IA:


mylan 6th Mar 2013 20:11

I eard that somebody see smoke at exhaust of the right engine. the aircraft go on right direction before stabilze, and can confirm the fail. but on the radar we can see that the aircraft stabilze the direction before touch the house maybe the pilot want to crash is aircraft on field but miss it.

I know the premier one, because i work on it. If the right engine explose, We can suppose that a vane go into the carbon fuselage and cut the cable off the pitch control becaus it's on the bottom right fuselage in the technical room and can explain why the pilot says on the radio, I forget the flight control and I can't climb.

But the gust lock isn't possible to forgotten because when you do your check list on a Premier one, and you must do it because you initialise the flight computer and extingsh the alarm light on the light panel alram the task is like an initliase a joystick on your PC by manoeuvre the control on each end course and wait to extinguish the alarm light.

I Think a FOD in the engine explose the fan and a vane cut the pitch flight control and that explain the message of the pilot at the control.
the end maybe the pilot want to crash is aircraft on the field, but it miss the manoeuvre.

avionimc 6th Mar 2013 21:45

Thanks for your insights Mylan, interesting. And to Liftboy for the ctrl lock pic. Is the transcript of the radio communications from VP-CAZ already available somewhere?

mebur_verce 8th Mar 2013 00:07

Two posts before mine, reference was made to a radio transmission by VP-CAZ shortly before crashing into the fields: has this been published somewhere and if so, mylan, can you please provide a link or otherwise report the content of the transmission?


mylan 8th Mar 2013 18:26

At the bourget airport by bizzjet pilot ... Who knew the died pilot and came bach flight after the crash. At the bourget airport whe eard that
my explication come from after the information and. How the aircraft is built but i din't says is the good explication
The vane of the william. Are in tiimtanium metal and in one piecz not like tfe for example .than is difficult to break a vane. Another idea but it s difficult the main batterie go out is place. I don t beleive it

dirk85 13th Mar 2013 16:20

On board of this plane an active PPRuNe user, that was writing on this section just two days before the accident.

RIP Luca, alias rantax82. :(

CaptainProp 13th Mar 2013 19:44

Very sad indeed... RIP Luca....

alas8 17th Mar 2013 23:04

Looks like engine failure
Ok, it is of course not good at all to make any guesses but if you want to hear an opinion from Premier pilot...
The airplane track as it seen on pictures is very similar to unexperienced student performance on a sim after v1 cut. Cannot comment about other airplane types, but Premier after engine failure makes pretty sharp move to dead engine side which at first times is very hardly arrestible. Then beginners usually elect to pull airplane sharply up in the air to prevent runway excursion to the side. This of course could happen before Vr (difference between V1 and Vr on dry rwys is tiny). However I have to say that at least on the sim, Premier's performance, even OEI, is pretty forgiving for such maneuvers even at MTOW at moderate temperatures and elevations. Short runway could be a factor, may be airplane was pulled up at a pretty low speed, due to apparent overrun hazard. The rest is a basic aerodynamics, i.e. too much drag to accelerate. By the way, runway length seems sufficient for T/O with all safety factors.
I don't believe in cable damage by fan blade for two reasons - first, in such case airplane wouldn't become airborne at all in such TODA (you have to pull, it doesn't fly by itself like C172), second, both the engine case and fuselage are pretty strong. Control wheel lock is even less realistic for the reasons explained by Mylan.
Anyhow these are very sad news, will wait for official investigation...

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