...I understood the TS train-set theory, but there was always a lack of transparency with the finances so how could you tell what actually happened? They must have made a reasonable income with the management fees... did they fritter it away on layers of detritus ("Aircraft Managers", consultants, job-hopping directors), did the wider group activities get unfairly fiscally loaded (IT, HR, etc) on other departments? Were funds really misappropriated by 'higher powers' etc to support new group ventures (or private accounts).. only a handful of people know and may not have been able to stop it any way, but it would be great to know the real story one day, it's probably quite simple.

On the face of it, it looks like an uncharacteristic failure of a British business with much going for it. But I suspect that would be a long way from the truth. It has been diddled from within.
Mike


btw: there is a stainless steel plate on the entrance foot-plate of these planes that states clearly who owns the airplane (Joe Bloggs Ltd), often it is "mortgage company"..owned via three or so other layers of interests..that routes back to the principal. You don't become a billionaire if you don't have a good commercial lawyer.. Ocean Sky (correct me if I am wrong) never owned an airplane asset, so impounding one would be illegal..as it belongs to somebody else.

No they didn't, or least not from the evidence I could see. In the early days, many of the managed aircraft where offered at "mates rates", with the mate in question nearly always paying late on invoices. I overheard a conversation in the office about a particular aircraft how after a year it was already $1m in the red. Whether this was still the case in the later years with others in the fleet, I don't know.

More than you would believe - but not only for "new group ventures" but also for certain people's "private travel" arrangements. The money would get paid back. Eventually. But by that time, the debts continued to rise and one department borrowing funds from another made it all very complicated.

Far, far, far from a British business I'm afraid.

Lots of people tried extremely hard to make this company work, as many of us believed in it, and it's credit to those folks that it lasted as long as it did. However, it was the one's at the top who were causing the issues. It was like wading through treacle most days.

Not everything at the London office was a drain on the finances - the brokerage actually made good profits with little relative overheads, and those profits were often taken to bail out other areas of the company.

Yup............:mad: :ugh:

..well they never mentioned half of this stuff at the interview!!

I feel bad for everyone at Ocean Sky (UK) Ltd on the ground..this is the end. You were in a giant shirt-lifting experiment all along.

The pilots and F/A will probably stay with their planes (there is a shortage of experienced crews at the moment) or find jobs quickly enough. For everyone else, I pray they find fun, fulfilling jobs soon enough, they deserve it

well.... been promissed to have a copy of their wind-up notice. K&L gates (or whatever) are OCS UK speakers nowdays. Nothing yet.

thank you))) i don't

For the less enlightened не задерживайте дыхание в ожидании means "don't hold your breath"

I think I was joking about the interview, there's no way to have guessed what the reality would have been, I was too side-tracked working out what promises were bollocks and what were probables..(to keep life simple, they kindly kept it all bollocks)

that's an interesting point about the RS XRS crew, I can cite even better examples of Captains who were much closer to PAs & Owners..and have now got carted along to the next operations with them. I'm British and generally abhor nepotism, corruption etc (unless it benefits me of course) but I may have just witnessed the single-most valid reason for brown-nosing/building rapport with these people, it buys a form of good-will currency that you can use up for hard-landings, diversions, cabin f* ups and now (ultimately) being taken with them to the next operation when the **** hits the fan. I know, I know..

Что хорошо скрыта, давайте будем надеяться, что его не нужно прийти в Англию скоро!

Well, whoever ends up managing RS's XRS, they'd better make sure all the bills are paid up in a timely manner or it'll end up being another hangar queen.

I ve got an excuse of ownership instead of wind-up notice today. If somebody may advise me on how to create a link to that .pdf documet - I will publish it......:O

Hey Monkey Boy,

you werent the only one, all he knows is FBO's, funny how only FBO's are only profitable and functional aspect of OCS operation

Quote:
They must have made a reasonable income with the management fees... No they didn't, or least not from the evidence I could see. In the early days, many of the managed aircraft where offered at "mates rates", with the mate in question nearly always paying late on invoices. I overheard a conversation in the office about a particular aircraft how after a year it was already $1m in the red. Whether this was still the case in the later years with others in the fleet, I don't know.


Quote:
Were funds really misappropriated by 'higher powers' etc to support new group ventures (or private accounts)..
More than you would believe - but not only for "new group ventures" but also for certain people's "private travel" arrangements. The money would get paid back. Eventually. But by that time, the debts continued to rise and one department borrowing funds from another made it all very complicated.


Quote:
On the face of it, it looks like an uncharacteristic failure of a British business
Far, far, far from a British business I'm afraid.

Lots of people tried extremely hard to make this company work, as many of us believed in it, and it's credit to those folks that it lasted as long as it did. However, it was the one's at the top who were causing the issues. It was like wading through treacle most days.

So true MB on all issues, think I know who's aircraft you are talking about, maybe an-ex charter client who bought their own aircraft and it spent first six months or so in service u/s

OCS Brokerage
 

Also didnt help brokerage dept when having booked a flight or series of flights with a signed contract for a friend/ associate of TS that after flight client/ TS buddy would call direct to TS demanding a reduction just because of their friendship nothing to do with quality of charter and TS would always bow to their demands even their payment plan. (He had already agreed credit for said clients).

OS really need to start telling crews etc what's really going on . Some guys paid , others not .....it's most unfair and a completely dishonourable way of doing things . Not entirely un expected but disappointing nonetheless .

That's the one - the chocolate box!

btw: there is a stainless steel plate on the entrance foot-plate of these planes that states clearly who owns the airplane (Joe Bloggs Ltd), often it is "mortgage company"..owned via three or so other layers of interests..that routes back to the principal. You don't become a billionaire if you don't have a good commercial lawyer.. Ocean Sky (correct me if I am wrong) never owned an airplane asset, so impounding one would be illegal..as it belongs to somebody else.

Not sure about ownership, but debts stay with the airframe that incurred them. If a bailiff turns up to collect debts on behalf of say Eurocontrol he's totally within his rights to impound the 'offending aircraft', its certainly not illegal just because the aircraft belongs to someone else.

So to everybody this doesn’t com as a surprise. With these kind of management, useless self-righteous People. This is not the first insolvency they put a company through though; e.g. triple Alpha, there German AOC Office in Munich, do not forget Ocean Cargo in Italy. Only so open bills do not have to be paid.
Only to start a new company some where!
TS will get a new company from his dad, just to screw again for sure. Always attracting the above mentioned individuals around him.
The turnaround on staff was a good indication of what would happen. Every decant human being left the sinking ship when they had the chance.

..back to skool
 

..that's an interesting point about impounding the airframe that incurred the debt..that machine is parked in Vnukovo III if anyone is looking for it. If RS allowed his debts to run up, he should pay for them or lose his toy

..so how did the company collapse so quickly? why did so many owners apparently terminate their contracts all at once? Why did SG step down so abruptly the other month? Why did AH and Co leave the other month? did the company realise it wasn't viable and moved to dissolve itself or did the owners catch wind of 'something' and just leave, thereby making the 'new' Ocean Sky UK company unviable? what would have made them all want to leave? I imagine the company might have become a little 'bloated' with certain personnel/material costs that could have been scaled down if we had lost 20-30% of the clients..but losing almost all of them would kill any business off.. so what happened?!?!

..the accounting system for a patched together "vertically integrated" aviation company must have been a nightmare to have kept together, particularly if (if actually true) it was being financially molested by previously mentioned elements and clients were actually allowed to accrue huge arrears (huh?!?). I remember once being denied fuel in Luton because OCS AM hadn't paid the OCS fuel account for the previous month, the passenger was FUMING at the delay..wtf. I have DOZENS of other stories like this for my time at OCS. You can't blame shabby account architecture and control on the Russians, it's too convenient.. It was a fire-fighting mess all along - you can only blame that on the Chartered Accountant/CIMA/ACCA etc MBAs qualified directors and managers who were present on our board and ran our money lines. Or not as the case may have been.

Ultimately, RS ditched OCS Aviation because it couldn't organise itself properly to the point of making a profit. The guy might be the aggressive, intolerant face of Russian capitalism, but he is not stupid (all he asked for was enough of a return to be able to go shoot a white rhino in Africa, that's not asking too much is it?) If TS genuinely derailed the strategic plans the board (SG, AH etc) thought were best and we subsequently lost out to the competition then that'd make a fine bedtime story, but I just have a feeling OSC went tits-up for reasons a little closer to home :(

actually I think that might be a bit harsh, I hope nobody on the money side takes offence. the trouble obviously started from the top and trickled down and I don't doubt everyone in accounts did the best they could with what they were given.

But I am still curious as to why all the clients just packed up last week. It's obvious nobody has been given the full story

I hope everyone finds gainful employment quickly at a company that deserves them. I am proud to have worked there
M.

Patience I feel your post is spot on, and I am glad you amended the comment on the finance people, who I feel we're doing an impossible juggling task with one arm tied behind their backs. I do however feel you have omitted one person who may have had a hand in the demise, namely IL.

Best of luck to everyone, it's was an experience I will never forget, hope you all find something else soon !

ML - Agreed re your additional name.

If it is true that we were being wantonly destroyed from within at the very highest level, then we never had a chance.

Good luck everyone - and no regrets; OCS certainly had its moments!

Why the stampede?
 

Theory #1: IL did in fact at first try to save OCS UK. He either proposed a hike in fees/contract-adjust or became majority shareholder etc (- I've no idea, I'm guessing) or something rather unpalatable to the owners of 15 planes or so. They all took off. Then he chased after them and tried to get them to join 'a new enterprise'..effectively making himself Middle Man between the owners and the new parent company (pick a small AOC holding company in need of a nice offer), using their AOC/Despatch/Crewing etc operation while keeping Moscow Ops as the main field office as it was before.

Theory #2 IL knew OCS UK was untenable, saw his big chance and deliberately put the wind up them ("the end is nigh!") then told them not to worry, he had a solution already for them (see Theory#1). They bolted out the door in a hurry, some may have gone with him (??) and some would have gone straight to competitors. Time will tell. If true, he killed off a company (made sick by the inabilities of people-recently-departed to get their house in order) that under the new MD in a post-RS/TS era (and a little help from KPMG etc) just might have been turned around (or maybe not, but now we will never know).

I think Theory#2 is more likely from what I have picked up on, but I'm sure everyone will post their own variations.

A damned fine company to work for. Finally destroyed by a selfish f* :mad:

So, what exactly has been shut down? The handling and brokerage is still going?

Ocean Sky survivors
 

Hi Phil

FBO and engineering continue to offer service with a smile. Just the airline that's going south.

Steve

man there's just no green grass in this industry any more!
is it you Twinjetter? are you a bloody jinx?

Yeah thanks very much for that Tom, is that sirens i hear again?? :-) Hope you're well mate.

Can i just say that there are some great ops and client comms staff in the LTN area right now ready to seek new challenges asap. Anyone know of any decent vacancies? Let me know and i'll pass on to my guys.

Phil your post is brilliant. Handling and brokerage still ok?
..translation..
Can I bid you in the balls to handle us and is there any business I can snaffle?

Careful on the approach at EGGW. Formation of large birds, possibly vultures, have been reported..

You are correct - he was always there, lurking in the shadows right from the beginning. Lots of dubious things would happen while he was over in Moscow - apparently no one has bank accounts out there, and all charters are paid for with suitcases full of cash! And what a lovely new BMW he had.......

Interesting reading..

Easy to throw stones at recent years, the rot was truly settled in from the start.

If the goal had really been about having a business that could self fund and make a profit it would have been easy enough to do, however this was clearly not the goal from the outset and too many people not interested in this, the outcome = these long term losses would never allow an easy fix for the future.

There have been some great people here and it is a real shame they never given the real chance to more things forward.

Shady middle men, Smoke screens, Chinese whispers, and Stupid rumours have done nothing but accelerate this process and made the job of so many so hard.

Here's hoping that lessons learnt, and the decent people get the jobs they deserve....

So if that wasn't the goal, what was it?

I agree that some rot was there in the beginning, however there were also people there who would say "No" to TS and he'd listen. Sometimes he would get his own way, but not always. It's when the people who would say "No" left, and were replaced with "Yes" men - that's it started to slip away, and quickly.

Manchester
 

Manchester Engineering has always and will always be profitable with low overheads, years of engineering experience, small efficient work force and the only FBO in the airport. With its own cost centre it will be a great place to bring your aircraft. Meanwhile it's business as usual so if your your Lear 45,60, Challenger 601/604/605/850, Global 5000/Express/Citation needs attention, rest assured you will get the service you deserve.
For those who have been around a long time, the NEA culture still fills the hanger!!
Coops

ocean sky manchester (Engineering)
 

Could not agree more

You wont get a better team to look after your A/C No Bull**** no Fancy Saville Row Suits no surplus of Managers/Assistant managers/Friends of Managers.

Just a bunch of people who will get there hands dirty to finish a Job

and there is still NEA Aura in the Air

Regards


Gerry

Could not agree more, especially A Hughless had never any idea on how to run a business,
Nepotism kept him aloft. A real disgrace for all the staff which did good work but never had a chance under those condition getting cheated by all the top players like, SG, AH, TS & Irakly alike etc.

TS, will probably get a new company by the senior Sadarov so he can screw up one more time. :=

Well said coopervane. Long may it continue.

Every customer satisfied says a lot.

Ditto
 

The Heart of the FBO still beats. Engineering is still in good hands.
A great team which I miss dearly.
Good Luck to all my old colleagues and mates, hope the old NEA spirit continues.
Lewis x

Ocean Sky name taken down from hangar at Manchester this morning
any more info on what is happening?

Ian

Re-branding to separate themselves from the stench of dead and decaying companies within the Group?

What could the new brand name be?

Oceans Apart ;)

Springheeledjack - like it:D

You should work in advertising!...sharp suits, fast cars, glass-clad city offices, and a limitless company Credit Card. Erm, hold on, you're not ex-Ocean Sky are you?:)