"Let's see here. A G550 / GLEX / 7X is going to cost you anything from $40 - $55m, "

- That's the top end. In the US, most aircraft being bought are in the 5-20m range (used)- there is a huge sag in the market.

" that doesn't throw or give away at least $15,000 worth of catering in a week?"

- OMG! In the real world, we do not throw away $2,000 USD/day. Maybe Mr. Brunei, but not in any commercial endeavor attempting to make money.

" Believing 15 grand for recurrent is exhorbitant is the first step down the road that ends where you ask crew to share hotel rooms at expensive destinations the pax want to go to."

- No, believing "$15 grand for recurrent is expensive" is stopping many many people/corporations from buying or keeping their aircraft.

Before any others try and accuse, I help run and am chief-pilot of a 135 (AOC) in the US. I deal with the owners of the aircraft, pilots, sims, maitenance, etc.

Not only do I see the owners of leaseback aircraft scared of the initial outlay of purchase of the aircraft, but your should here what an owner's accountant thinks of $15 grand for a week training! When you have the meeting with potential owners and lay out the cost structure to operate a jet, there are usually laughs involved!

When an Oil Temp Sensor costs $2000, something is inflated. Yes, you can say it covers the cost of R & D, but that is on a mid-80's Hawker - they already recooped their money on that one!

I know I am never going to win this argument. . .

The subject wasn't the real world, it was the Gulf where your typical management company is conceived by some poseurs who hire a tea boy first and is managed like a poorly-run money laundering operation. They're spawned, they hatch, and die.

But during that brief, shining moment, lots and lots of catering.

(Brunei's not in the Gulf. It's another place and has trees)

You know what, I forgot the original post was about the ME. . .

I guess that might be the "real world" now. . .

A brave new world.

2992 you are correct when talking about the "lower" end of the market but that market does not really exists in the ME, or Europe, not in the same way (extent) as in the US at least.

Yes, the initial quote was from an article about the ME but the same argument is true for Europe, the CIS and Asia for the Falcon 2000 and upward size aircraft.

There are tons of qualified and experienced pilots around to fly these aircraft, but very few companies are hiring qualified pilots, they are hiring type ratings.

What you are telling us 2992 is that you are trying to do things the right way by explaining to potential owners about the involved costs before they buy a jet.

I know numerous operators in Europe and the ME that intentionally misinform potential clients about costs just to get them to sign a management contract that will be very costly and difficult to get out of. Once its signed they slowly but gradually "introduce" all the real costs involved.

The same goes for quite a few brokers who are interested in selling a jet, any jet. They don't care if it's the right jet for the client, if it's going to really do what the client wanted it to do, costs what the client had budgeted for etc etc....

It limited in the ME due to the range limitations, but it's increasing, all you have to do is look at the aprons in Riyadh, Jeddah and Dubai and you will see what I mean.

Oops, guess that I dont live in the real world.

Mutt

in my experience, if you buy a new aircraft you will get 4 typeratings thrown in , so no issue with training costs !

Unless you want to sell on those training slots and make some money one them. Now where can I find those rated guys again? :yuk: