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-   -   To prostitute or not to prostitute, what shall it be? (https://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc/474480-prostitute-not-prostitute-what-shall.html)

Brie 16th Jan 2012 18:18

To prostitute or not to prostitute, what shall it be?
Hello guys,

I'm having a dilemma. In my current company the managment will phase out some aircraft. Of course i'm current on the one that will be phased out and will be jobless this year.

Now they are giving me the possibility to stay BUT it is me who has to pay for the typerating. ( around 17.000 euro's) .

I don't know what to do. For me, this is a lot of money. I've looked also other options but like you know, getting another job is very hard.

What to do gentlemen?


HS125 16th Jan 2012 18:55

Name and shame!
If They have pilots and are changing the aircraft training needs to be part of THEIR budget for doing this.

If they need additional pilots on an existing type and are absorbing you onto that fleet, their need dictates that they should have the budget for that as well.

The words pay and conditions are linked together for a reason, maybe I'm missing something but this seems to have all the regular hallmarks of a cowboy outfit.

My next stop would be legal advice.

Brie 16th Jan 2012 20:53

That's the way i feel as well. After paying the can still sack me. Somehow i feel i simply don't want to be a part anymore of all this "Pay to deals" anymore. I invested enough during my training. Well in that case i have to face redundancy. Perhaps a chance and good argument to do something else but flying.

RainingLogic 16th Jan 2012 22:50

Sounds like they want you to quit, and this is their method of getting you to do it so they don't have to fire you.

Klimax 17th Jan 2012 02:34

Name and shame! What a way of doing business.. Sorry for you. Best of luck in finding a proper employer. Don't quit aviation if flying is what you like doing.

TowerDog 17th Jan 2012 02:42

Ask if they will pay for the rating, then take 10% out of your pay every month until paid off. :ooh:

grounded27 17th Jan 2012 03:00

Moving on to another shitty company for another type rating is a better bet than prostituting yourself for the same pimp....Broaden your horizons!

Brie 17th Jan 2012 05:26

@ raininglogic: no thats not the case. But operational cost in the company has steepen. They decided to continue with a smaller fleet and the phase out other aircraft. I would like to stay in aviation but not at the expense of my own wallet. Paying to be allowed to work???:= i don't think so.

His dudeness 17th Jan 2012 05:39

But operational cost in the company has steepen.
As it has for most, if not all operators.

And most, if not all, try to squeeze money out of their employees, cause that is the easy way.

The whole profession goes to hell, on a slide with increasing angles. IMO.

Im thankful not to be in your position, wish you the best of luck in these difficult times.

md1011 17th Jan 2012 07:15

Well here I am on a freelance basis out to the east of Moson, on a new and very nice aircraft, but paid the industry standard, dependent on your view, with no per diems, in this part of the world it seems that there is a hierarchy and in that I should be able to eat for nothing...... ???? Now I'm not young and am thankful to have work, however, if I am not worthy of fair terms of employment like the next man, then I am old enough and wise enough to "do one", and go with my integrity intact.
I have been offered a permanent position and have said, treat me on the same basis as others in the operation or get someone else. Always remember too that people in the office will promise you one thing and then proudly deliver something else, shafting you and satisfying their own climb to favour, but then, aren't pilots secondary in the pecking order ?................. over here anyway !

Unless everyone sees the bigger picture, the time for decent reward for your toil is not round the corner but way down the road for a good while yet.

Trim Stab 17th Jan 2012 08:25

Brie, what sort of contract do you currently have? I see you are based in France - if you have a French employment contract, then what they are doing is illegal.

Your company must either offer you "licenciement economique", in which case they have to justify why your post is being removed and pay you compensation, or else they have to pay themselves for you to retrain for a different post.

Even if your company flies on a non-French AOC and you are on a non-French contract, then you would have grounds for legal action against them in France.

What you do does depend on whether you want to burn bridges with them or not. Unfortunately the industry is small, and taking legal action can end up harming your career in the long run.

Bloody unfair - we really need a union for bizjet pilots!

Brie 17th Jan 2012 10:03


No it is not a french company. But like you said, i can go to court but what's next??? Even if i win the case, staying is not an option.

Hoping for the best is the only thing. In the mean time i'm looking for another (hopefully better) outfit.


Trim Stab 17th Jan 2012 15:00

Is it Austrian by any chance?

Chicken Leg 17th Jan 2012 16:28

Paying for a rating to get a particular job is bad enough, but paying to stay in a job that you already have is incredible. Don't do it. For your's and all of our's sake!

Fletner007 17th Jan 2012 16:54

Hi, is there any union, where you fly?
Are any colleagues in the same case of you? You should consult a lawyer.
@ rainingLogic I do agree, it's a kind of harassment.

Brie 17th Jan 2012 17:07

Don't worry, i'm not accepting this. I decided to accept redundancy. No there is no union, but i'm member of a union. But so far i'm still here working and the disclosure of the name of the company would not lead to anything. Things can change very quick. Let's wait and see what happens.

Pace 17th Jan 2012 17:11


I dont know your detailed circumstances but if you are part of a crew rated to fly aircraft that they are disposing of the position no longer exists as the aircraft no longer will exist!

They have aircraft they are holding onto and presume they already have crew rated to fly those aircraft.

They are saying that if you are rated on those aircraft that they will continue to use you but as they already have rated crew they are not prepared to pay to get you rated as well but will try and fit you into the equation if you are rated?

Am I reading the situation right?

If that is correct you need to have safeguards built in just incase you get dumped after spending all that money or only fly as some sort of relief pilot until someone drops dead or moves on.

More detail ???


Brie 17th Jan 2012 17:21

Hi pace

You are talking about building safeguards if i spent this money?? It is very easy. I don't pay A SINGLE PENNY!! That i already know. I don't want to be a part of this kind of methods.


Pace 17th Jan 2012 17:31

It is very easy. I don't pay A SINGLE PENNY!!
You have answered your own question! so you need to look at the contract you have or get advice on that contract.
If that is a dead end look for another position elsewhere.

Good luck


Fullagas 19th Jan 2012 06:11

Ask if they will pay for the rating, then take 10% out of your pay every month until paid off.
If you do that, you're only supporting management's poor decision-making and practices.

The costs of initial and recurrent training are miniscule in comparison to the acquisition and yearly budget of a bizjet. Your awareness of these basic economic facts should be pointed out at your next meeting, hopefully with the CP and HR both in attendance. Should the fueler pay your company for the 'privilege' of putting in jet-a? Does the caterer do the same? Does your waitstaff at lunch drop off 10% of your lunch bill for the 'treat' of serving you?

I had something similar happen years ago. The pilots stood together, refused to accept the proposal, and management capitulated. The CP was let go soon after.

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