Nextant 400XT
 

Why pay $3.9 million for an old plane with new engines and shiny paint job and a wing that was too small when it was originally designed (when it was lighter)? :confused:

This seems a day late and dollar short.

I would buy a modern, highly advanced, efficient and easy to fly plane like an Embraer Phenom or a Cessna CJ.

The Nextant press releases are pouring out like it is the best thing to happen to aviation. :ooh:

Just sayin.

The 400XT process employs a remanufactured airframe from the Beechjet 400A/XP aircraft, enhanced with new, state-of-the-art technology including the Williams FJ44-3AP turbofan engine, the Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21™ integrated avionics suite, advanced electronics and completely rebuilt interiors. The remanufacturing process takes all life-limited components to zero-time status, either through replacement or complete overhaul, which effectively makes the 400XT a new plane in all material aspects even before the addition of advanced technology. The 400XT is considered to be a new type in Aircraft Bluebook. Further options include additional avionics features and cabin entertainment including high speed wireless internet.

The resulting aircraft supports a range of 2,005-nautical miles with four passengers and NBAA IFR Reserves, a 50 percent increase over the 400XP. Other performance improvements include a cruising speed of 460 nautical miles per hour; fuel efficiency improvements of 25-30 percent, depending on the length of the flight segment and noise compliance that exceeds Stage IV requirements.

“Nextant has delivered the equivalent of a new jet at approximately half the cost of competing models, a combination that we believe will resonate with our owners and members.”

Flight Options appear to like it :) I wonder if they managed to increase the baggage space and replace the requirement to fuel the 3 tanks separately.

Mutt

Mutt

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Had a look around this at the Dubai Airshow, its nice, the performance and cost certainly puts it as a contender in its class, but they didn't solve the baggage problem :)

Mutt

...nor the performance problem, nor the non-existent APU problem etc. etc.

The BeechJet (name it however you like) still is a piece of crap. A venerable LJ35 will gracefully outperform it any time. :ok:

It's still a Mitsubishi MU300 Diamond to me. Built for midgets with no baggage, didn't like the MU-2 either.:ugh:

Correct, specially on the maintenance cost will the Lear outperform the 400... :{ The old lears should all be burned or donated to a museum.... or both :E

Not if you look for a nice, decent cabin (and a decent cockpit, Proline 21!). That is the strong point of the 400.

All the rest....I don´t now really (haven´t flown the 35), but the numbers don´t look that bad IMO

Long Range Cruise Speed 437
High Speed Cruise Speed 460 (I guess thats faster than the 35 innit?)
Takeoff Length @ MTOGW (SL/ISA st. day) 3906ft (isn´t that better than the 35?)
Landing Distance (4 Pax NBAA IFR Res.) 2960ft
Time to Climb All Engines 14min/FL370

The direct comparison to the 400A is very interesting:

Range (4 Pax NBAA IFR Res.) 2005 50% 1333
Long Range Cruise Speed 437 6% 414
High Speed Cruise Speed (kts) 460 2% 450
Takeoff Length
@ MTOGW (SL/ISA std. day) 3906 - 3906
Landing Distance
(4 Pax NBAA IFR Res.) 2960 - 2960
Single Engine Climb Rate 745 144% 305
Operating Cost per mile $1.91 30% $2.72
Time to Climb All Engines 22/FL430 33% 33/FL430

Stage IV opposed to real noisy (the 400 based at our field is bloody annoyingly loud) and 30% less fuel...that might be appealing to current owners that can`t sell the crappy thing. (and wait til NetJets want to get rid of theirs....the market will be even more flooded then...)

For that type of money, you could get so much more...

In the current market you can get a lot more in any type... So yes I like the 400 and I like the upgrade but agree that it is a hard sell in the current market with the low prices around.... It is less risky to buy a nice low houred Excel instead.. :cool:

Both cockpit (especially) and cabin look really dated to me. The cockpit really does not look like a nice place to work. If I had a boss who wanted to buy one I'd be doing my best to put him off!

hmm, ever sat in one? Compare it to a Lear or a CJ and you´ll find way more headroom and me likes the flat floor very much. I´d also like to point out the big door, compare that to the real strangely formed and small Citation door.

I never flew the 300/400/400A but evaluated it for our business, we had a Premier on order with the enormous delay the boss got imptient, in the end we bought a CJ2 which was a better fit to the KingAirB200 we operated also and could go way more places than the 400A. (rwy perf)
One key point was the relatively bad resale value. The CJ2 proofed to be absolutely great in that respect, we sold it after almost 1200 hrs for almost the same money we bought it (that would be different today, I know...)

the cockpit looks like it is made from lego with all those colored cb collars. Any one who produces a jet without pressure refueling must be crazy, but i guess as it is made from le......

When this thing was designed, pressure refuelling was not yet invented ;) (wasn't it originally a stretched Mitsubishi Mu2 or something like that?)

It had been invented but not designed into the original, but they are boasting that this is a new type!

On the subject of Lego....

Barbie is made of plastic no?

The reason Flight Options like them is that they have about 80 old BeechJets that they can't sell so they might as well up grade them and use them as charter aircraft.

Another reason is that the Founder of Flight Options also owns a majority of Nextant;)

This way he gets the money out of Flight Options and puts it in his Nextant pocket so there is no money in the Flight Options account for the union pilots to ask for raises. :*

Folks,
if you haven`t flown the bird and if you are not the one paying the money for the new one - where is your problem.
I have flow more than 2000h in all Mu300 Beech400 Beech400A/XP and now approx 25h in a XT.

1. Pressure refulling ? Folks it is a bussiness jet. Would you really do a 10 min quick turn around? I hate the 35 min turnarounds in the airline business - thats why I jumped into a GA jet.

2. 3,9 Mio for a Jet faster than a CJ, bigger cabin than a CJ, faster than a XLs.
still with a great cockpit.
And - all from my own experiance over several years - the Beechjet maint. costs are low. The bird is very reliable.

Operating in EU on runways with 1.000m is never a problem and now with the increased thrust absolutely no factor.

The only point is yes the wing is a bit short BUT!! Therefore the customers are now swapping to the new Hawker400XRP.
It will have an increased wingspan and tall winglets as well. The performance will be increase again compared to the XT by using the Williams FY44-4A32 engines.

I a company has to decide to buy a plan with low operating costs, range up to more than 2.000Nm (yes I tested it in the plan it works) the nice cabine and a great paperless cockpit - go for it. I couldn`t find a competitor on the market that gives me so much aircraft for under 4 Mio. Do you?

How about a 2004 ProLine 21 800XP at US$3.5m?

Apart from the t/o performance, I'd say its got the 400XT shot to pieces on so many levels!

Also in operating and mx costs? Methinks these airplanes are in a different class, so how comparable are they? One can buy a Chally 600 for WAY less than 3,5, so why bother buying an old Hawker that leaks like a sieve onto the Hangar floor when TKS was used etcetc.

Ironically Nextant is one of the more senior companies with a keen interest in picking up the Hawker line - stay tuned . . .

Well before making any move to acquire one I'd take a long hard look at the UK/ME/India dealer if I was in those areas.
One might want to be very careful in any dealings there, buyer beware.
Last filed UK accounts show a net corporate valuation below £100......I wonder why?

Factory direct may be the way.

"Also in operating and mx costs? Methinks these airplanes are in a different class, so how comparable are they? One can buy a Chally 600 for WAY less than 3,5, so why bother buying an old Hawker that leaks like a sieve onto the Hangar floor when TKS was used etcetc."

Now you're being silly. Have a think about your statement with regards age and mx operating costs and come back when you know what you are talking about. :ugh:

@LGW: you point towards a Hawker that is in a different class,and differs considerably in operating and mx costs.

I use the example of Challi vs Hawker to highlight this difference even more and that the price of an airframe alone is almost irrelevant.

Sorry my english is so bad you can`t understand what I mean.


Thanks for pointing this deficiency of mine out to me. I will try to learn hard to become as wise as you are, old owl. Is there a LGW vulture school of aviationknowledge and hard knocks I could attend?

the vultures at LGW are called the CAA. I'm just about to pay them the third licence replacement fee in under 12 months. One to renew my CPL, then one to upgrade it to an ATPL, and now to turn it into an EASA licence. We your friends.....

A 'new' 10,000 HR high cycle ex charter 400XT lists at 5.5 mil. A run out 400A with the tubes is a million. Pay 600k for engines. 75k for paint/Interior. Now put them at Seatac for a horse race to Miami. Neither can go non stop, neither restricted to FL400 any more.... I just ran the numbers... Anyone care to guess what the extra $4 million outlay buys you in the XT when you land in Miami?

Well,
the 5.5 mil you are talking about are not correct. 5.5 payed the last operator buying a XT because of many special options. BUT:
XT and XPR idea is:
Buy an older horse 400A for around 600K (and thats not the 10.000h birds - actually you can get 4.000h with 4 PL4 tubes for around 450K) or pay 1.5 mil. for an NJE 1.500h bird.
Than pay around 2.6 mil to XT nextant or XPR hawker and you have a great competitor.

Difference between XT to XRP:
XT startet to upgrade process and therefore I agree : the cockpit looks a bit piece to piece work.
the new XPR cockpit is something new. Hawker learned from nextants errors and made it look like one nice piece. The screens and panel have the same color. They changed the peanut gages (Stby instr.) to one nice L3 stand allone digital one. and the whole panel locks cleaners. + XPR will increase the wingspan and you get great looking winglets as well to increase performance again.

XT and XPR produce a bird with new avionic, new engines and mostly new cabin.
YES: the fuselage is old. Yes there is still a crappy fuel system with no pressure refueling.
But have you ever tryed the new CJ4? The performance is comparable. The Cabin is better (depends on your customer and how you change the seats and cabinet for eg) and the CJ4 price is more than doubbled.

But 2.000NM range with .775 and a great PL21 with IFIS and total paperless work in cockpit is great (yes - there is still a paper flight log :ugh:)

I have flown more than 25 diffrent birds in the Mu300/Be400 series and never had a problem of leaking. I don`t know who is your mechanic, but our birds are parked in a hangar with white bottom color. And so the boss sees every problem of leakage. But we never had one.

Well,


It's been a while since the last post on this thread. I would like to know how many 400XT and XPR are in active service nowadays. I flew the 400A and 400XP and can only tell good things about it. It's a small business jet so do not ask for APU and things like that. It's quite capable for it's league.




Beechjet 400A/Hawker 400XP/Nextant 400XT | Business Aviation content from Aviation Week

Interesting article. We will see.

XPRs in service: Nil

So far it´s only a marketing hype with basically very little substance behind it. Can´t see why Textron, the new owner of the program, would be interested to promote a competitor to it´s Citation line. So, don´t hold your breath.

I wonder if they feel they have to to try and stop nextant.

Plenty Nextants being sold, and a lot of good feedback. The main issue I see is support. Beech will not supply parts for a nextant conversion. But in value for money terms it looks fantastic.

XPR is not in service.
I am working close to the project and waiting for first official Ferry Flight. Plane is ready, engine run went really well, but FAA is still checking papers for STC. Maybe in 2 month I can send a detailed report of ridding that horse across USA :)