Should I pay for my own ATPL upgrade?
 

Hi all.

Ive got a small problem. Im currently unemployed with 4000 hours. I have a type rating on a Falcon 2000 and I used to fly this as a co-pilot with a frozen ATPL. I have been given the chance to pay for my own ATPL upgrade so I can swap the blue frozen ATPL booklet for a shinny green new one, all for a couple of thousand euros. What should I do? Its alot of money when your unemployed.

Thats what im doing... :ouch:

What difference will it make when going for a job, as I am guessing since you have a fATPL you may not have any command experience and any job you will go for will not be a direct captain's position.

(apologies if you will be going for direct entry captain positions)

I know you can tag you ATPL skills test on to when you get a job and you have to do an LPC, saving you the money altogether.

Before I got the job on the falcon I was working in the states flying a citation X. I have about 20 hours command time on that; however that rating is no longer current, and I now dont have the right to work in the states anymore.

Are you looking for a captain or fo position?

If the former, then do it as you will make the couple of thousand back fairly quickly, but if a fo position, there's no real point, as I said, let your new employer pay when you tag it on to your LPC.

well it just depends on whats out there, why limit yourself.

Was that 20 hours PIC or a typing error, because if correct, I dont think an ATPL plus 20 hours PIC is going to get you a direct entry captain's position.

But as you say, why limit yourself.

If you can still just afford it, I would do it - if not, then you don't really have a choice. I think it is a question of your personal priorities. Being able to qualify for left seat should always be attractive to potential employers.

Yes I can just about spare the money. But I dont want to waste my money or pump even more money into this if I still cant find a job.

Personally I don't think it will make any difference when looking for a job. There are a few people out there with ratings that have more command time. With the industry right now it is hard to get direct entry left seat without previous experience.

If that was me I would be pushing the operators pretty hard as an experience FO with good future prospects.

I disagree. I am in the same boat as you although I have about 500 Pilot in Command time in a jet that I am no longer current in (total time is similar).

It will be pretty much impossible for you to get the direct entry captain position. It will be equally difficult to get an FO position. Unfortunately, experience is now often seen as a negative (shhh, don't tell the passengers this dirty little secret.) Your experience translates into being expensive. The operator can get a young, eager and rich cadet for a fraction of the cost.

I actually dis an experiment, I created several "dummy" CVs and sent them out to corporate jet operators and airlines. For example, for a RYR CV, I said I had 6500 hours total time (ATPL) and 1500 in the DC9. No response. I then sent a CV saying I had 373.6 hours total time with the Frozen ATPL and a "strong desire." Wooolaaah..I was contacted 48 hours later with an invitation to attend an assesment in order to become a cadet.

Next, I contacted a certain corporate jet operator in Germany and said I had 4075 hours total time, 2400 jet, and 400 in a Learjet 35. No reply, not only in Germany, but most of the EU. Then 2 days later, I sent a CV saying how I had 422 hours total time, but was more than willing to do what it took to get a flying position and what do know.... like magic, I received invitations for 3 assessments!

So, maybe you should redo your CV and not put down all that experience....it is hurting you. If you say you have 375 hours you are not lying...you do have 375 hours.

Good luck.

Hey Uncle W,

That is amazing. Thanks for sharing that information with us. I'm gob smacked. What the hell do these operators expect is going to happen to them in the next decade when things do get better? They need experience in the long run

Maybe, but they want cheap labour in the first place. :\

Yes, safety is apparently something that belong to the past now. I don't think it will be of any advantage to unfreeze your ATPL on your own