Airframe Icing
Over the past couple of days I have seen some really interesting discussions where icing came up a lot. I have also seen that there is a fair bit of confusion on this particular topic. My personal view is I am surprised how little is understood and actually how little is taught outside of the ATPL syllabus on subject matter that applies to basically any pilot who flies out of sight of the ground. I personally thought it fine in my younger days with a newly acquired IMC rating to go cloud chasing and I was actually once advised by an instructor when I was still wet behind the ears that it would be better to be sat in cloud at 9000ft if you were going on a trip of any distance. I dont know if things have changed significantly in recent years but I personally didnt touch upon the subject until I did my IR and even then I would now say nowhere near as much as would serve to give enough information about exit strategies and icing planning etc. I was advised by an ATPL friend to do a specific course which is available on both ground icing and in flight icing and I couldnt believe that such an in depth and informative course was actually free of charge. I personally got great benefit from this course and will add the link at the end in case any fellow pilot wishes to explore the subject further. Of course I realise that a lot of pilots out there fully understand all there is to know about the subject so this isnt aimed at you but even if only one person looks at it and gets benefit from it, then the skies are a safer place today then they were yesterday.
Aircraft Icing Training - Courses :ok: |
Thanks! Back from Canada, I always felt like what some of my pilot friends knew about icing was a bit...too thin...Especially after experiencing a lot of icing conditions first hand!
So this course is definitely a great material, thanks again! |
You can actually buy the dvd for a small fee I think I paid $10 a few years ago , very good investment.
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Pretty damned simple. if on the ground their is any icing, deice. if not sure of a clean wing do it again or cancel the flight. In the Air if you encounter ice, first power up, go up, you can always go down, keep min ice speed, use your boots. If worse comes to worse, turnaround get the hell out. If still ice on airframe use ref+10-15 or whatever the POH says. Tons of time in icing out here, Only 3 times that I prayed. 1. PA 31 in unforecast 2. BA31 in forecast light 3. B1900 in worse than forecast. That is despite my best efforts after #1
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airframe icing
In the Air if you encounter ice, first power up, go up, you can always go down, So if you encountered ice pellets in flight, would you still power up and go up I wonder. Could it be in that instance that there would be freezing rain, guaranteed at a higher level????? Lets also consider the surface temperature is below freezing and then you really are up :mad: creek without a paddle. Im sure you must know all about warm and stationary fronts and temperature inversions etc or didnt your advice account for that? I did say this post wasnt for the professional pilots who knew all there was to know but if thats your advice, you would probably benefit in a huge way from taking the time to have a look at it. Theres some interesting accident reports from invetigators who actually reference poor decision making in nearly every case and theres plenty of them |
If i'm in Ice pellets, i'm not icing up am I. And normally if in freezing rain a few thousand feet turns it to snow. 8k later of pounding around at low level, so I may have a little experience.... Oh and given the choice I will always find the sun/clear rather than the clag, unless severe turb is expected, then adjust as necessary
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airframe icing
If i'm in Ice pellets, i'm not icing up am I. If you are being serious then I would question your credentials. I would be amazed if a B1900 pilot would have such a distinct lack of knowledge in IFR and cold weather operations. i will actually bite my tongue here and allow you time to reflect on what you have put in text. For consideration. FAA Issues Urgent Reminder to Air Carriers Regarding Operating in Ice Pellet/Snow Conditions December 21, 2005 On December 21, 2005, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) issued a reminder to airlines, charter operators and FAA inspectors that operating in ice pellet conditions with anti-icing fluids on the critical surfaces of an aircraft is contrary to FAA guidance and policy expressed in two FAA Notices:
FAA Warning: Anti-Ice/De-Ice Programs – Operating in Ice Pellets and Heavy Snow |
airframe icing
Im almost lost for words. Shall we just allow those that wish to view the course and benefit from it do so. it would appear that maybe a solitary ATPL could also benefit from it.
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Debiase, Pretty damned simple. if on the ground their is any icing, deice. If not sure of a clean wing do it again or cancel the flight.
guess what where HOT's do not cover you are a test pilot. so maybe I am just being too simple for you. BTW TC's reg's are for the most part more strict than the FAA. Polished Ice anyone, not. A2B, I check the weather, progs, sigs, pirep, radar, etc... before I go http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov...wrap_image.php ADDS - Turbulence PIREPs for the NW region With almost all of my flying in the airline world where cancellations mean headaches, I will say that if I am uncomfortable about the trip, I will cancel. I guess the KISS principle doesn't apply in the UK. |
I doubt it is necessary to go on, every one can come to their conclusion by simply reading the posts....
The most important thing being you having found this great website, I'll make sure to send it to my fellow friends and students flying around, along with the Transport Canada safety letter, or this pretty good website from TC: Holdover Time (HOT) Tables - Commercial and Business Aviation - Airlines & Aviation Operations - Air Transportation - Transport Canada |
airframe icing
If i'm in Ice pellets, i'm not icing up am I. For those who will take some positives from the post and the link. this is possibly a prime example in question of just how little icing is understood. |
What is Minimum icing speed on your present aircraft, and what does this number mean?
Maybe I'm spoiled by the power allowing me to out climb 99.9 % of icing conditions. @ 160 kias, I normally climb about 2000fpm, if I am not through in 90 seconds or so then I reevaluate. But I guess since I am not a ferry pilot, I wouldn't have any experience with ice. Having lost several friends to ice, I probably have a very healthy respect for it LaneF300 good post |
airframe icing
Hot off the press, aircraft departed Bangor Maine earlier today in marginal conditions on a ferry flight heading for Russia.
The metar at time of departure was KBGR 041738Z 33015KT 3SM -SN BR FEW025 OVC030 02/M01 A2936 RMK AO2 P0000 Reported Plane Crash - WABI TV5 |
What a shame. Latest news reports that divers are being sent to recover the body. I don't know yet who the pilot of that plane was, but I know several of the pilots who have been ferrying those over to Russia over the past couple of months, so I'm sure I know him.
Looking at the track log, my best guess would be that he got loaded up with ice, and got pretty slow trying to maintain altitude and then probably stalled. All the data after 10:49 looks erroneous, but before that it looks like he had been slowly climbing to 5,500 and then leveled off for about 5 minutes, with a ground speed of 53 knots. Winds aloft for that time show the winds at 040 at 14 knots with an OAT of -7C. That would put him in level flight with a TAS of 67 knots which would be about 62 knots IAS , which is pretty slow for an iced up airplane with an extra 125 gallons of AvGas in the back seat. Without ice and at full power, a 172S will still do about 120 knots TAS with a full ferry tank in the back. If he was running at full power, that would have been a ton of ice to slow him all the way down to 67 knots. Needless to say, in a situation with an iced-up, overgross, and aft CG aircraft, the stall speed is going to be much higher and if the aircraft does stall, it is most likely not going to be recoverable. Obviously this is all speculation, but all I can say is that airframe icing is serious business and should be treated as such. I think this goes to show how quickly a situation can go from bad to dead. My condolences go out to the pilot's family and friends. Blue Skies! |
airframe icing
Yeh unfortunately he topped off the ferry tanks in Bangor then departed for Goose Bay. He had been sitting in Bagor for 4 days awaiting more favourable weather. He tried to climb through the cloud to get VMC on top but the climb rate and the forecast moderate icing kept him in icing conditions for too long. The pilot was James Beaton, aged 78 from Wales. Our thoughts go out to the familly he leaves behind.
RIP James. British pilot dies in US plane crash - Telegraph |
rigpiggy says:
Pretty damned simple A2B Ferry - excellent thread/link, good of you to share :ok: I'm Europe based but operate worldwide and browse these courses annually. They are relevant, practical, realistic and regularly updated. And Free! :) |
iPhone
Anybody any clue for a holdover time iPhone app?
Tnx a lot! :ok: |
iPhone Apps
Try Pilots Toolbox(PToolbox)...http://web.me.com/mac.ps and in the iTunes store under iPhone Apps of course...somewhere!
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