King Air 350 Runway
 

Looking to see if it is possible to operate a King Air 350 off of a 3,000 foot grass runway. My gut says no, but don't have any numbers to back that up. Anybody got performance data for 2 pilots 6 pax and 2 hours of fuel?
Thanks

Maybe try the AFM :ok:

Well I know a B200 can take several pax out of 3000ft dirt strip in hot temperatures from airfields at 3000ft amsl no problem. Full power on brakes, close particle separtators on the roll. We'd rotate at 100kts. Don't know about the 350 but yes, there should be a little book on board that will tell you you can do it before you try.

Some more details would help
Elevation / slope

dc9, thanks for the tip about the AFM....oh wait, if I had the AFM I wouldn't have asked the question! :ok: Maybe the better question would be is there a 350 AFM online somewhere? A quick search didn't turn one up for me. Megle2, no slope, sea level on a 23c day. BTW, I'm not a King Air pilot, but the boss is talking about the future.

XEMS - Sadly, I didn't know you are not a King Air pilot, nor did I know you don't have access to the AFM and as my crystal ball is broken through over use, I merely suggested you consult said AFM.

Don't attempt to do what you have asked us to check without thorough investigation from official sources. Just my opinion you understand.

DC- As far as a broken crystal ball, that thing should be placarded inop! Apologies if my attempt at sarcasm/ humor was misunderstood. I basically posted the question while on a call with a superior that threw the numbers at me, and yes I should have posted my inexperience with the aircraft.

3000' grass runway is no problem for the 350.

About 2700 ft to land at 13,000 lbs

Take off a bit tight by the book ( private ops )

Approach flap / ice vanes closed - 2980ft approx

Approach flap / ice vanes open - 3500ft approx

Thats using accelerate stop dist.

Just opening the power and going - off the ground in 2100 ft approx.

Just happen to have a B300 US POH to hand. Figures are straight out of the POH without any additional factors.

3000ft strip at SL, 25C, nil wind, nil slope, for the grass Supplement -

(a) takeoff with approach flap

12000 lb TOFL 3304 ft
11500 lb TOFL 3148 ft
11000 lb TOFL 2996 ft
10500 lb TOFL 2847 ft

(b) landing with flap down

15000 lb distance 2850 ft
14000 lb distance 2750 ft
13000 lb distance 2600 ft

... old eyes in small charts notwithstanding.

Gentlemen,

Thanks very much for taking the time to run the numbers. It's greatly appreciated.

I don't know about no problem. From Hawker Beechcraft web site;
TAKEOFF PERFORMANCE
TAKEOFF DISTANCE (FT) FLAPS APPROACH — SEA LEVEL
Takeoff Weight (lb) Outside Air Temperature 15°C / 59°F
15,000 3,300
14,000 2,939
13,000 2,737
12,000 2,540

Also, I don't no about the newest 350's but our 2000 and 2001 model have contaminated charts as well;

Wet Runway Flaps Approach SL 15C
11,000 lbs. 3097'
10,500 lbs. and less 3065'

Standing Water Flaps Approach SL 15C
10,500 lbs. or less 5386'

Slush Flaps Approach SL -10C
10,500 lbs. or less 4874'

Wet Snow Flaps Approach SL -10C
10,500 lbs. or less 4747'

Dry Snow Flaps Approach SL -10C
10,500 lbs. or less 4743

As the BE B300 is certified under the commuter category, you must have these lengths. They are not optional.

Given;
2 pilots 6 pax and 2 hours of fuel.

You are looking at about 12,000 lbs.

careful,
 

see in this thread POHs from BE-300 & BE-350 mixed up..(they are different animals..

in general, getting a decent payload with good range out of tight places, nothing beats a BE-200B, with High Float Gear & last but not least the FULL Raisbeck treatment ( i.e. props, leading edge, ram air recovery system, tail feathers & fully enclosed high float gear)..

dream plane, and it will do all the perf even when calculated with balanced field length (which the Raisbeck kit let's you use, if you deem you want to use them..)

Raisbeck King Air Performance Systems Main Page

Raisbeck King Air 200/B200 EPIC Performance Systems

Out of the Raisbeck Pocket Reference for the EPIC Platinum;

Accelerate stop 12,500# SL ISA 3290'

I don't know the empty weight of a 200. It's been 8 years since I've flown one. I think you can see though that even with the EPIC Platinum you probably would not be able to operate day in and day out off of a 3000' strip.

Even a little morning dew is going to increase your accelerate stop significantly on grass.

Mad2fly - Still in Springfield!

right mad2fly,
 

the last one I had been associated with was a late model B-200, Proline 21 bird, with the full Platinum kit...

I can look it up tomorrow, don't remember exactly, could be it had a BOW of some 8.400 lbs.., I'll check it..could be wrong on that..start to forget things at times...

but then again, you don't need full tanks for quite some range

and no, you do not want to take it out of wet grass....

in fact if it were my personal bird I'd never take it into grass, just really on a perfect dry day with a hard smooth grass runway maybe..I mean you want to be nice to your own plane, right? ( that new Proline 21 Cockpit, while being excellent for all practical purposes, does not seem to take rough runways too kindly...you'd think with all that new AHRS stuff, it would be immune to rattle & roll, but the contrary is the case..for the bush I'd prefer a "steam driven cockpit", you may have to overhaul those gyros more often, but they do take a beatin'..)

but still, the Raisbeck kit on the B-200 delivers and an already good airplane becomes a near perfect one with the kit..

again for payload / range I'd say it will beat a B-350 out of short fields

No mix up in aircraft types ( B300 / B350 ) above.
A King Air 350 is placarded as a Beech 300.

The original B300 has its own set of books for both the normal and light weight versions.

You cannot compare take off performance for the 200 / 350.
Simply because they operate to a different safety standard as mentioned above.

Because of this the 200 has to be the winner as it only requires take off distance to 50ft.

that's understood
 

megle2

BUT the Raisbeck kit does let you operate with the same perf calcs as the commuter B-350 calcs if you want to use them..(balanced etc etc)

and it's certified for that, that info is FAA approved in the Raisbeck supplement..

so yes, you can compare..

or , you do not take balanced, and you can have Piper Cub like "bush" performance if you like..whatever you choice..and operating rules you want or have to adhere to..

Standard aircraft comparisons were my drift.

Actually I'm in Europe now.