Ford Air's (ex)-BBJ's
 

I'm intrigued as to why Ford Air(UK) are already flogging the BBJ's and, as I hear it, looking to replace them with 737-300's or -700's. What's wrong with the BBJ's? Does it come down to capacity?

Given the relatively short runs around Europe, perhaps the BBJ just isn't being used up to its full-range potential... Unlike Daimler's A319CJ... I suppose there are a lot of surplus 737-300s and 737-4/500s around that might have the right capacity/range mix for that type of operation - and they are probably cheaper than a BBJ...

Is that true Stresfree? What is the status of your BBJ programme at Fordair? Any news?

. .Cheers

Anyone know:

1.Who's selling them?. .2.Where I can get any info on the beasts?

Will be pleased for any / either of the above.... .Thanks.

. ."Flying around...Hunting for prey"

A quicker acquisitions chappie than you Mr Vulture!!

Pop into your local Ford dealer and he'll be glad to give you a spec sheet. Here, I'll save you the trouble:

[quote]BOEING BBJ, Serial Number 30753, Technical Specifications. . . .AIRCRAFT DATA (January, 2002). .Date of Manufacture: November, 2000. .Cycles: 825 Landings. .Total Time Airframe: 834:40 Hours. .Engine Model: CFMI CFM56-7B27-B3. .Engine SN 877225 Total FH: 834:40 Hours. .Engine SN 877225 Total FC: 825 Hours. .Engine SN 877231 Total FH: 834:40 Hours. .Engine SN 877231 Total FC: 825 Hours. .APU Model: Honeywell 131-9B. .APU Cycles: 1,436. .APU Hours: 1,357 Hours . .AVIONICS. .HF Transceiver: Rockwell Collins. .VHF COM Transceiver: Rockwell Collins. .Cockpit Voice Recorder: L-3. .Tape Reproducer: Matsu****a. .ACARS Unit: Teledyne. .Aero H / H+ SATCOM: Aero H / H+ SATCOM. .Entertainment System: IEC. .Airshow 400: Airshow. .SELCAL Decoder: Coltech. .Ground Proximity Warning Computer: Honeywell. .Windshear System Installed: Yes. .Air Data Inertial Reference Unit: Honeywell. .DME Interrogator: Rockwell Collins. .Muti-Mode Receiver: Rockwell Collins. .Radio Altimeter Transceiver: Rockwell Collins. .Weather Radar Transceiver: Rockwell Collins. .TCAS Computer: Rockwell Collins. .ATC Transponder: Rockwell Collins. .VOR/Marker Beacon Receiver: Rockwell Collins. .ADF Receiver: Rockwell Collins. .Head Up Display: Flight Dynamics. .Digital Flight Data Recorder: L-3. .Digital Flight Data Acquisition Unit: Teledyne . .FLIGHT GUIDANCE SYSTEMS . .Flight Control Computer: Honeywell. .Autothrottle Computer: Smiths . .FEATURES. .5 Long Range Tanks Installed (with provisions for 6th). .Still Air Range with full Pax (120) - 3750 NM. .Still Air Range with 80 pax – 4500 NM. .Winglets installed. .NAVLINK installed. .CAT IIIA . .INSPECTIONS. ."A2" Check (Per CAMP) Jan 1, 2002 6 Months Remaining. ."C1" Check (Per CAMP) Jan 1, 2004 24 Months Remaining . .INTERIOR120 Seat Tourist Class Interior. Satcom Communications System. Entertainment Systems with Over-Head LCD Video Monitors, DVD/CD, VHS Player. 3 Galleys. 1 Forward and 2 Aft Lavatories With Vacuum Pump System. . .EXTERIOROverall White With Charcoal and Platinum Accent Stripes.

BOEING BBJ, Serial Number 30755, Technical Specifications. . . .AIRCRAFT DATA (January, 2002). .Date of Manufacture: May 5, 2000. .Cycles: 835 Landings. .Total Time Airframe: 861:51 Hours. .Engine Model: CFMI CFM56-7B27-B3. .Engine SN 876358 Total FH: 861:51 Hours. .Engine SN 876358 Total FC: 835 Hours. .Engine SN 876360 Total FH: 861:51 Hours. .Engine SN 876360 Total FC: 835 Hours. .APU Model: Honeywell 131-9B. .APU Cycles: 1385. .APU Hours: 1286 Hours . .AVIONICS. .HF Transceiver: Rockwell Collins. .VHF COM Transceiver: Rockwell Collins. .Cockpit Voice Recorder: L-3. .Tape Reproducer: Matsu****a. .ACARS Unit: Teledyne. .Aero H / H+ SATCOM: Aero H / H+ SATCOM. .Entertainment System: IEC. .Airshow 400: Airshow. .SELCAL Decoder: Coltech. .Ground Proximity Warning Computer: Honeywell. .Windshear System Installed: Yes. .Air Data Inertial Reference Unit: Honeywell. .DME Interrogator: Rockwell Collins. .Muti-Mode Receiver: Rockwell Collins. .Radio Altimeter Transceiver: Rockwell Collins. .Weather Radar Transceiver: Rockwell Collins. .TCAS Computer: Rockwell Collins. .ATC Transponder: Rockwell Collins. .VOR/Marker Beacon Receiver: Rockwell Collins. .ADF Receiver: Rockwell Collins. .Head Up Display: Flight Dynamics. .Digital Flight Data Recorder: L-3. .Digital Flight Data Acquisition Unit: Teledyne . .FLIGHT GUIDANCE SYSTEMS . .Flight Control Computer: Honeywell. .Autothrottle Computer: Smiths . .FEATURES. .5 Long Range Tanks Installed (with provisions for 6th). .Still Air Range with full Pax (120) - 3750 NM. .Still Air Range with 80 pax – 4500 NM. .Winglets installed. .NAVLINK installed. .CAT IIIA . .INSPECTIONS. ."A2" Check (Per CAMP) Jan 1, 2002 6 Months Remaining. ."C1" Check (Per CAMP) Jan 1, 2004 24 Months Remaining . .INTERIOR120 Seat Tourist Class Interior. Satcom Communications System. Entertainment Systems with Over-Head LCD Video Monitors, DVD/CD, VHS Player. 3 Galleys. 1 Forward and 2 Aft Lavatories With Vacuum Pump System. . .EXTERIOROverall White With Charcoal and Platinum Accent Stripes.<hr></blockquote>

The BBJ's were bought in order to serve routes between America and Europe. The company has however decided not to operate these routes and stick to the European schedules. Therefore its not necessary to have long range aircraft to serve short haul routes. Also asset management considerations are influencing these decisions.. .Its as simple as that............... .I flew one of the BBJ's this morning and still find it an outstanding machine and such a joy to fly. It will be a shame to see them go.

<img src="frown.gif" border="0">

Sad news Stressfree - here's hoping they give you decent replacements.

Stressfree,

I am sorry to hear the news. The need for large aircraft for transport in Europe has been demonstrated, so, the BBJs will likely be replaced with comparably-sized aircraft...

Look at it this way, most corporate flyers would kill for the opportunity to fly a BBJ ONCE - myself included. You have had that opportunity (in addition to flying a racy GIV). You have been blessed with that rare opportunity as a result.

I am anxious to hear what you guys will be driving next. Any idea on the timetable?

Stressfree, any chance you could take some pictures of the BBJ (including flightdeck) and post them here? I have seen some random pictures on airliners.net, but I'd love to see some more...

. .Best of luck and keep your chins up (you guys are more fortunate than most)!

Lavdumper,. .Sorry for being a bit thick but how do I post photos on this site?. .The most likely replacement for the BBJ's will be standard 737's so it won't make too much difference to us. You're right about our good fortune in being able to fly some great planes, it easy to forget what the outside world is like!. .Best regards.

<img src="cool.gif" border="0">

Stressfree,

Glad to hear prospects still look quite rosy for you guys.

As far as posting the picturs - I am not sure how to do that... Anyone out there who can provide some suggestions? I've seen pictures posted here before. HELP US PLEASE!!!!!!

Kinda scary - I can program an FMS but I can't work the Internet....

. .Cheers

The G4 looks the part, but the BBJ is a much simpler machine to operate. I think they will still be operating out of Stansted on the 35th anniversary of Fordair.

Onwards and upwards.

Given the configuration(internally) of the Fordair BBJ's, new B737/738s will appear fairly similar.. .In any event the BBJ and BBJ2 continue to be a popular choice at the "big end" of town.. .SF, perhaps Fordair to are going to start another discount airline? <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

Well my choice would have to go the the B717-200. It's a lot cheaper than buying and operating 737's and carries the same loads as the current BBJ. Now that Boeing has decided to continue producing the 717, maybe they are willing to make some good deals for somebody willing to purchase several. At last report, American will be returning all 30 of theirs back to Boeing by second or third quarter and if Midwest Express doesn't pick them up as part of their 50 aircraft order, Boeing surly would like to see those aircraft back out in the marketplace with somebody else. Besides, who want's to fly an old 737? <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

//unlurk mode// Hi guys, you'll need a website to upload the images onto and then link to that with the URL of the image. To get this, right click on the image, select Properties, copy the URL and then Paste it in the body of your message underneath your text or whatever.//lurk mode//

sorry to hear the BBJ's are going,. .I saw one on climb out this morning as I drove. .around the perimeter to work,. .climbing like a homesick angel sprang to mind, it just. .looks so efficient,. .everyone knows blended winglets are best !!

have fun,

And thats only on 24K derate I'll bet - now try 27K!

Onwards and upwards

Ithought foronemomentyou were all talking about a friendofmine,Rex Fordwho runs Fordair at Sywell!! Still if anyonesinterested he runs aperfect Dragon Dominee,might be a bit slow for your average exec trip but it would remind you what real flying was !!

Thank god you are out of here with that kind of spelling!

Was that esperanto, or do you just have a touch of the shakes???

Must be all that travelling in old airplanes I think!

Pistongone,. .'remind you what real flying is all about' - oh dear! Not all this sad old tosh again. . .Real flying is about state-of-the-art powerful aircraft, dont let anyone tell you otherwise. May I suggest that you visit a therapist to sort yourself out...........

<img src="wink.gif" border="0">

LAV is right. The profile changed. They are using them on airline-style ops between England and EDDK a lot of the time. Scheduled and everything. Might be interesting for them to add capacity with regular 737 and lose the weight of BBJ stuff. Wouldn't it be cheapest to charter somebodies a/c like LH-Cityline's for the job? They certainly could provide a 70 seater getting bigger ones soon.

Stressfree,

Yes, it is Lavdumper under a new name - pretty original, huh.

Anyways, do you have any idea how long before the BBJs would be transferred out? Has there been any talk about potential replacement aircraft? Maybe a return of the MD87?

. .Cheers

Streesfree is a bit stressed at the moment. The rest of us hope its not the minibus!

By the way, real aeroplanes do have the nosewheel at the back.

Fullyfine,. .Me stressed? I think not.......... .Nosewheel at the back - oh dear...... . .Lets get this straight once and for all - 1.those that can - get on with it.. .2.those that can't - fly tailwheels and call it real flying.......... <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> . .Bring on the minibus, I hav'nt done a new type rating for a year now.

Kerosene Kraut. .You're way off the mark....... Facts first, suggestions next. OK?

Next please.

<img src="cool.gif" border="0">

Sorry me again........ .Lavdumper - theres no time scale at the moment but I doubt that anything will happen soon. I also very much doubt that a return to MD-87's (or similar) will be considered. . .That is unless a tailwheel airliner could be found, honestly some people are unbelievable. Can you imagine anyone actually wanting to fly light stuff (real flying.....yawn) instead of quality kit???????? <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

Stressfree.....

If I were you I'd be pleased to see the back of an aircraft capable of 4500nm. The company may, one day, want to use it for Bl..dy awful long sectors! A nice 733 would work a treat. One without the Long Range Tank option of course.

All the Best

fullyfine - I don't comment very often, but maybe you should look at the Techlog Forum regarding minibuses...... <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

Tailwheel V high perf' jets ?

stress free has a valid point I think,. .tailwheel is fun flying,a bit harder than. .trike gear to handle, but not exactly rocket science, just handling skill.. .(I've done tailwheel into Nayland, serious fun,. .challenging too :-)

Now high perf' jets are a LOT harder all round,. .more tech' kit to handle, higher speeds,. .all critical stuff to get dead right

so I say tailwheel is fun.. .high perf' jets are VERY challenging.

Hey, except say Sally B, prob' fun & . .challenging too, still not a high perf' jet. .though,

Blended winglet exits stage right awaiting a hail of abuse / praise depending on view points !!

have fun anyway, whatever.

<img src="cool.gif" border="0">

The bbj is a damn good aircraft but was never suited for the Ford air operation.. .I also agree high tech, high performance is the way to go, standard b737-700 hopefully for the fordair crews.. .stressfree, time to fly the bbj how it should be flown, eh ????

How long have the BBJ's been on the market and where have they been advertised.

About 6 weeks. Try <a href="http://www.freestream.com" target="_blank">www.freestream.com</a>

Looking through Freestream's website, it seems that all the aircraft they "specialize" in, have one source in common <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> , with the exception of the Challengers.. .. .Does anyone on the east side of the Atlantic read Business and Commercial Aviation? In the March issue of Greenhouse Patter, Torch Lewis writes: "Perhaps Ford Motor Co. might chance a recall in shutting down its flight department, which, except for WWII, has been in existence since Henry built the Ford Trimotor out of corrugated aluminum and bailing wire. But I guess when you lay off 35,000 workers it may appear unseemly to continue operating corporate jets. I would hazard a guess that the charter business around Dearborn will prosper as Ford's top management will still seek the certainty and security of private air charter." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> . .. .Maybe Torch should check his facts before he writes this garbage <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 10 March 2002, 15:16: Message edited by: fokkerjet ]</small>

I see we have a new contributor to this topic - 'supertanker' - I wonder who that could be?????. .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />

Stressfree,. .. .Are the BBJs still being operated on a daily basis? If so, how many flights a week do you operate them? How often are YOU flying them per week?. .. .I looked at the Freestream online ads for the BBJs - they look to be in very good condition. At least you can claim that you flew BBJs - among other great aircraft!. .. .Cheers

Hello Lav,. .The BBJ's are each flying at least 5 days a week. I'm flying 3 to 4 days a week, never very far but its still great fun to fly................... .Hows it going yourself? Are you still keeping busy? . .All the best,. .SF. .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />

Stressfree,. .. .Glad to hear you are enjoying the BBJs - what a great opportunity that has been for you... I am sure your next airplane will be great as well.. .. .I am not getting the amount of flying in that I would like - I only fly a few times a month. Still working on the consulting side as well - that keeps me busy. . .. .I'd love to see some pictures of the BBJ or of you flying it. Perhaps you could either post some of them here or email me some copies - that would be great.. .. .Take care and keep us posted with how things are going..... .. .Cheers

stress free. .. .just wondered what exactly is the problem with the bbj's - and why the need to replace them with the b737-700 or -800 series ?. .. .seems to me the bbj is a more-than-adequate type of aircraft for your operations into europe. i watch your guys load the aircraft every morning/evening and i have done a performance course, and i can not understand why the need to change..... .. .you never know what the future may hold for fordair...!?!?!?. .. .best regards

Carina,. .. .Just to add my two cents. The BBJ is designed to fly long legs - New York to Tokyo, for instance. Short hops around Europe do not best utilize the aircraft which was designed to do something different. Plus, the BBJ is expensive, and used (albeit relatively new in terms of technology) are available on the market at cheaper prices. Operating a 737-300/400/500 or a 717 would make more sense in a corporate shuttle configuration. If Ford's BBJs were flying more Transatlantic flights or flights down to Southern Africa, then their existence would be more defendable from a corporate perspective. Do you agree Stressfree?. .. .By the way, Stressfree, interesting flight-from-the-cockpit airliner video/DVD being sold on Worldairroutes.com related to an island-based airline (not a commercial). Check it out! Like to hear your thoughts about that - you can email me.. .. .Cheers

Lavdump,. .Well said, you've summed it right up.. .Thanks for the link to Worldairroutes, I've mailed you about that............. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />