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No LPV approaches in UK from 26th June due to Brexit

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No LPV approaches in UK from 26th June due to Brexit

Old 8th Jul 2021, 14:21
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
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That's where I got to, although it is difficult information to find and I am still not sure. I think it may come down to legal liability, and although SoL will probably practically provide integrity control for all PBN approaches there is are no longer any legal relationship or obligation on ESA to provide the service and, absent an agreement, continuity of service etc is obviously not guaranteed. My tentative conclusion is that Air Nav Service Providers in the UK should not publish RNP APCH procedures of any sort. I'm finding it very difficult to locate the document that actually says ANSPs have a legal responsibility, though.

This document too
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Old 8th Jul 2021, 15:22
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Alex Whittingham View Post
My tentative conclusion is that Air Nav Service Providers in the UK should not publish RNP APCH procedures of any sort.

This document too
No, that cannot be right Alex, because pretty much all modern devices on board have performance monitoring capability, so RNP is assured for the approach selected OR you get a warning that it is not. GPS signal provision is also unaffected. So LNAV APP no problem; VGP also possible as this is an LNAV non-augmented 2D approach, even if it looks like vertical guidance (and even if your AFCS will couple to it!). That V stands for virtual - you are only supposed to be using it to assist your managed CDFA.

Last edited by Torquetalk; 8th Jul 2021 at 15:32.
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Old 8th Jul 2021, 15:42
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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So somewhat helpfully, one of our GTN 750 equipped types has a full list of what we still have, even though EGNOS SoL (and hence SBAS) is gone. So:
  • LNAV are fine.
  • LNAV+V are fine (provided you have the latest firmware in your GTN).
  • LNAV/VNAV, LP, LPV, LP+V all not fine.
From the flight manual:


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Old 8th Jul 2021, 19:37
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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I'm at the limits of my understanding here, but as far as I can determine integrity control comes from 2 sources. 1. ABAS which incorporates RAIM and the normal multi-sensor FMC operation (called AAIM) 2. The GNSS/SBAS signal itself which in the case of EGNOS is the SoL signal as far as RNP APCH is considered. Failure of either #1 or #2 will give you an integrity warning. I believe that RNP APCH requires system integrity control (#2, in other words independant from the aircraft equipment) in order for the approach to be published, it cannot just rely on #1. But I'm really at the limits of what I can find in documentation. Lack of agreement about SoL, for instance, seems to mean no NOTAMs are issued when service is expected to fall below Annex 10 standards in that location.

I have to say I have no confidence in the CAA getting it right. I mentioned the loss integrity control issue implying loss of RNP APCH to Rob Bishworth, the CAA director responsible to Flight Ops, last summer and asked him what he was planning to do about it. He had no idea what I was talking about, it hadn't been 'flagged up in briefings'.
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Old 8th Jul 2021, 19:58
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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From that linked document, in various places, my bold:

The EGNOS Safety of Life (SoL) Service is provided openly and is freely accessible without any direct charge. It is tailored to safety-critical transport applications in various domains, in particular, the service is compliant with the aviation requirements for Approaches with Vertical Guidance (APV-I) and Category I precision approaches1 , as defined by ICAO in Annex 10 [RD-1]

Two EGNOS SoL Service levels (NPA and APV-I) were declared with the first issue of the EGNOS SoL SDD v1.0 in March 2011 and an additional one (LPV-200) was declared with the EGNOS SoL SDD v3.0 in September 2015 enabling the following SBAS-based operations in compliance with requirements as defined by ICAO in Annex 10 [RD-1]: • Non-Precision Approach operations and other flight operations supporting PBN navigation specifications other than RNP APCH, not only for approaches but also for other phases of flight. • Approach operations with Vertical Guidance supporting RNP APCH PBN navigation specification down to LPV minima as low as 250 ft. • Category I precision approach with a Vertical Alert Limit (VAL) equal to 35m and supporting RNP APCH PBN navigation specification down to LPV minima as low as 200 ft.

The European Union, as the owner of EGNOS system, the European GNSS Agency (GSA) as EGNOS Programme manager and ESSP SAS, as EGNOS services provider, expressly disclaim all warranties of any kind (whether expressed or implied) to any party, other than Aviation Users specified under 2.2.2 above [see below], and/or for any other use of the EGNOS SoL Service including, but not limited to the warranties regarding availability, continuity, accuracy, integrity, reliability and fitness for a particular purpose or meeting the users´ requirements. No advice or information, whether oral or written, obtained by a user from the European Union, GSA or ESSP SAS and its business partners shall create any such warranty.

[from para 2.2] EGNOS SoL signal covers also territories outside the EU. However, authorising and safety oversight of the use of EGNOS in civil aviation outside the EU falls within the sole responsibility of the respective third country. ESP will support the operational use of EGNOS based procedures via the signature of the EGNOS Working Agreement (EWA) provided that the level of safety at least equivalent to the Single European Sky requirements can be demonstrated by the interested parties on a case by case basis and that there is an agreement between the EU and the third country on the use of EGNOS SoL

The EWA includes ...... NOTAM Proposal Origination: Outlining the terms and conditions under which the ESSP SAS will provide EGNOS NOTAM proposals to the NOFs of the organisation providing Aeronautical Information Services (AIS) under the scope of a signed EWA
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Old 8th Jul 2021, 20:35
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Alex Whittingham View Post
From that linked document, in various places, my bold:

The EGNOS Safety of Life (SoL) Service is provided openly and is freely accessible without any direct charge. It is tailored to safety-critical transport applications in various domains, in particular, the service is compliant with the aviation requirements for Approaches with Vertical Guidance (APV-I) and Category I precision approaches1 , as defined by ICAO in Annex 10 [RD-1]

Two EGNOS SoL Service levels (NPA and APV-I) were declared with the first issue of the EGNOS SoL SDD v1.0 in March 2011 and an additional one (LPV-200) was declared with the EGNOS SoL SDD v3.0 in September 2015 enabling the following SBAS-based operations in compliance with requirements as defined by ICAO in Annex 10 [RD-1]: • Non-Precision Approach operations and other flight operations supporting PBN navigation specifications other than RNP APCH, not only for approaches but also for other phases of flight. • Approach operations with Vertical Guidance supporting RNP APCH PBN navigation specification down to LPV minima as low as 250 ft. • Category I precision approach with a Vertical Alert Limit (VAL) equal to 35m and supporting RNP APCH PBN navigation specification down to LPV minima as low as 200 ft.

The European Union, as the owner of EGNOS system, the European GNSS Agency (GSA) as EGNOS Programme manager and ESSP SAS, as EGNOS services provider, expressly disclaim all warranties of any kind (whether expressed or implied) to any party, other than Aviation Users specified under 2.2.2 above [see below], and/or for any other use of the EGNOS SoL Service including, but not limited to the warranties regarding availability, continuity, accuracy, integrity, reliability and fitness for a particular purpose or meeting the users´ requirements. No advice or information, whether oral or written, obtained by a user from the European Union, GSA or ESSP SAS and its business partners shall create any such warranty.

[from para 2.2] EGNOS SoL signal covers also territories outside the EU. However, authorising and safety oversight of the use of EGNOS in civil aviation outside the EU falls within the sole responsibility of the respective third country. ESP will support the operational use of EGNOS based procedures via the signature of the EGNOS Working Agreement (EWA) provided that the level of safety at least equivalent to the Single European Sky requirements can be demonstrated by the interested parties on a case by case basis and that there is an agreement between the EU and the third country on the use of EGNOS SoL

The EWA includes ...... NOTAM Proposal Origination: Outlining the terms and conditions under which the ESSP SAS will provide EGNOS NOTAM proposals to the NOFs of the organisation providing Aeronautical Information Services (AIS) under the scope of a signed EWA

Too complicated Alex. We have arrived at the info we need to make flight decisions and know why we are making them:

1) Can you load the LPV approach from your on-board NAV system and do you have a plate? Yes? Then you could fly an SBAS approach which is not approved. Should you? What would Jesus do?

2) You cannot load an LPV or don’t have it on the plate: Fly the LNAV approach, which may also be RNP (so what?), using vertical guidance if available to help you fly your CDFA.

3) Fly the Baro-NAV approach to LNAV/VNAV minima if your aircraft is capable of this.
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Old 8th Jul 2021, 21:11
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Is there some physical reason SoL service is no longer authorized for the UK? Is there a UK ground station that is no longer being utilized for corrections? Are the broadcast corrections now being limited to the EU airspace?
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Old 8th Jul 2021, 21:25
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Too complicated Alex. We have arrived at the info we need to make flight decisions and know why we are making them
Yes, maybe. Well its your little pink body involved in this, not mine, so I will sit back and watch!
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Old 8th Jul 2021, 22:46
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MarcK View Post
Is there some physical reason SoL service is no longer authorized for the UK? Is there a UK ground station that is no longer being utilized for corrections? Are the broadcast corrections now being limited to the EU airspace?
The docs referenced above show no ground stations or coverage UK and NI, unsurprisingly. It is the RIM stations that monitor the geostationary satellites (4 now?), and correct, encode and transmit the SBAS signals to the satellites. Each approach has a specific EGNOS channel and reference, so how hard would it be for these to be delisted?
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Old 9th Jul 2021, 21:51
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Torquetalk View Post
The docs referenced above show no ground stations or coverage UK and NI, unsurprisingly. It is the RIM stations that monitor the geostationary satellites (4 now?), and correct, encode and transmit the SBAS signals to the satellites. Each approach has a specific EGNOS channel and reference, so how hard would it be for these to be delisted?
2 RIMS in the UK. They’ve said they will keep them running. The Channel listed against each LPV has nothing to do with any transmission or receipt of a signal. It’s a legacy of how approaches are encoded in FMS. They use the same format as GBAS approaches which were associated with local augmentation transmitters at each airfield. The channel was the output of a mathematical formula based on the VHF frequency used. The aircrew plugged it into their GBAS kit like an ILS frequency. Of course LPV doesn’t have any VHF transmitter but they do need to be unique in the nav database so a big long list of new “channel” numbers were invented. ICAO and the FAA were at various times responsible for allocating these codes to approaches. There is no way of “switching off” channels in the EGNOS system - it’s just a legacy of days gone by.

Also interesting to note all the RIMS in non EU and arguably 3rd world countries who seem perfectly capable of having access to EGNOS from outside the EU….I feel an FOI request coming on here….


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Old 9th Jul 2021, 21:53
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MarcK View Post
Is there some physical reason SoL service is no longer authorized for the UK? Is there a UK ground station that is no longer being utilized for corrections? Are the broadcast corrections now being limited to the EU airspace?
No signal still available - we are surrounded on 4 sides by people who are members of EGNOS…
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