LIFUS logging into logbook
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LIFUS logging into logbook
Hi guys,
Just started my first CAT flights with Britten Norman BN2P. I did my ground training, flight training and OPC and started to fly from the left seat under supervision. How should I log the flight to the logbook (EASA)? Should I mark the commander as my instructor or myself? Due to not having a separate column for PICUS should I log it under PIC and add the remark "PICUS" and ask form the instructor the signature?
Kind regards,
Just started my first CAT flights with Britten Norman BN2P. I did my ground training, flight training and OPC and started to fly from the left seat under supervision. How should I log the flight to the logbook (EASA)? Should I mark the commander as my instructor or myself? Due to not having a separate column for PICUS should I log it under PIC and add the remark "PICUS" and ask form the instructor the signature?
Kind regards,
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This is what my company says about the logging of PICUS hours:
PICUS is flighttime as pic under supervision. The objective of PICUS hours is to perform the required PIC hours to obtain your ATPL (A).
If you want to log a flight as PICUS:
PICUS is flighttime as pic under supervision. The objective of PICUS hours is to perform the required PIC hours to obtain your ATPL (A).
If you want to log a flight as PICUS:
- Inform the PIC before the briefing at the start of your flight that you want to log as PICUS. This gives the PIC the oppurtunity to evaluate your overall performance from beginning till end. Before signing of the PICUS flight.
- You have the perform at such a level as PICUS that the PIC does not have to intervene at any stage during the flight.
- The PICUS hours need to be signed of at the end of the flight by the PIC.
Last edited by SanHor; 27th Jan 2021 at 11:13. Reason: Layout
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And further more regarding the line training.
A line training captain does not have to be an Instructor. He can be appointed by the company based on experience.
I never logged hours as Instructor while giving Line Training. Don’t know how other colleagues are doing it.
A line training captain does not have to be an Instructor. He can be appointed by the company based on experience.
I never logged hours as Instructor while giving Line Training. Don’t know how other colleagues are doing it.
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SanHor, thank you for the feedback, I really appreciate it!
1. Yes, the line training is done by an experienced captain and not an instructor.
2. Right now I'm still flying my LIFUS sectors, can I even log them as a PICUS? Or should it be Dual flight time? Due to being single pilot operation, I think that I can not log it as a Dual hours.
This was my thought process: I am flying a single pilot operation, it is my line training and if it would be just a regular line flight I should be a PIC. The line training captain is sitting in the right seat with me and due to that, the flight should be logged as a PICUS (he has not intervened the flights).
Am I correct?
1. Yes, the line training is done by an experienced captain and not an instructor.
2. Right now I'm still flying my LIFUS sectors, can I even log them as a PICUS? Or should it be Dual flight time? Due to being single pilot operation, I think that I can not log it as a Dual hours.
This was my thought process: I am flying a single pilot operation, it is my line training and if it would be just a regular line flight I should be a PIC. The line training captain is sitting in the right seat with me and due to that, the flight should be logged as a PICUS (he has not intervened the flights).
Am I correct?
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I would say so. You need so and so many hours as PIC in order to fly your missions without a supervisor. How can you possible get those PIC hours if your flight time under supervision doesn't count? Anyway, the OM-D (training manual) of the company you fly for should (must!) contain all the relevant information.
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PICUS
A) you have an ATPL: log hrs as SIC while under supervision (or as PIC)
Only one pilot is assigned PIC in the TechLog or GD..., so only one pilot can log the hours as PIC (of course with the exemption of LPC checkflights on the aircraft)
B) you have no ATPL and the company assigns you to fly as PICUS: you log the hrs as PICUS (but not as PIC, as to my knowledge) - again, there is only one PIC marked in the TechLog.
my2cents
welle
Only one pilot is assigned PIC in the TechLog or GD..., so only one pilot can log the hours as PIC (of course with the exemption of LPC checkflights on the aircraft)
B) you have no ATPL and the company assigns you to fly as PICUS: you log the hrs as PICUS (but not as PIC, as to my knowledge) - again, there is only one PIC marked in the TechLog.
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welle
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Depends whether the BN2P has suitable instruments for the RHS pilot as per the EASA regulations. It is not possible to operate as multi crew if the RHS pilot has to look across to the instruments on the LHS to fly approaches, I seem to recall that the regulations require any instruments to be within 6 degrees of each pilots forward vision to be able to classify the aircraft as suitable equipped for multi pilot operations.
The next question is who is signing the technical log, if it is the line training captain then you log PICUS, if it is you then you can log PIC. That said, it would be normal for the line training captain to be commander of the aircraft and therefore you could not log PIC; ORO.FC.105 refers.
The next question is who is signing the technical log, if it is the line training captain then you log PICUS, if it is you then you can log PIC. That said, it would be normal for the line training captain to be commander of the aircraft and therefore you could not log PIC; ORO.FC.105 refers.
PICUS is logged by a co-pilot performing the duties of PIC in multi pilot operations.
The BN2 is single pilot so you can't log PICUS
Your scenario is very straightforward as there is no FI/CRI onboard: only one of you can be PIC and log the time. Even though you are receiving training, it's line training not flight training: you're flying as PIC in an airplane for which you have a licence, so the flight time goes in your logbook not his/hers.
The BN2 is single pilot so you can't log PICUS
Your scenario is very straightforward as there is no FI/CRI onboard: only one of you can be PIC and log the time. Even though you are receiving training, it's line training not flight training: you're flying as PIC in an airplane for which you have a licence, so the flight time goes in your logbook not his/hers.
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The BN2 can be operated as a multi-pilot aircraft under an AOC, and thus PICUS can be logged, provided it is suitably equipped for multi-pilot operations such as instruments etc.
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Thank you all for the replies.
The company does not have the approval of multi-pilot operations, so we fly it as a single pilot plane (VFR day). But there are instruments for flying it from the right seat as well.
The line training captain is signing the technical log and the company said to me, that the flight shall be logged as PICUS.
I contacted one of my flight school instructors about the ordeal as well. He said, that in the end, it does not matter, if it is PICUS or PIC. Either way I am getting PIC hours, that is the point that matters.
So right now I'm following my company's instructions and logging it as a PICUS flights.
The company does not have the approval of multi-pilot operations, so we fly it as a single pilot plane (VFR day). But there are instruments for flying it from the right seat as well.
The line training captain is signing the technical log and the company said to me, that the flight shall be logged as PICUS.
I contacted one of my flight school instructors about the ordeal as well. He said, that in the end, it does not matter, if it is PICUS or PIC. Either way I am getting PIC hours, that is the point that matters.
So right now I'm following my company's instructions and logging it as a PICUS flights.
Only half a speed-brake
While simply incorrect, it's probably the closest best to describe what's happening on the flight and who's doing what. Enjoy!
