Biz Jets, Ag Flying, GA etc. The place for discussion of issues related to corporate, Ag and GA aviation. If you're a professional pilot and don't fly for the airlines then try here.

Citation low pass

Old 12th Sep 2020, 13:32
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 680
Citation low pass

Low pass that is too low:
irresponsible by any means.
fox niner is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2020, 16:22
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Paisley, Florida USA
Posts: 227
Yeah, that was WAAAY too low. At first I thought that it might be CGI, but it looks real to me. I looked up the airplane, and it is Venezuelan registry, YV3228, a Cessna Citation 550B. According to AirNav Radar Box, it hasn't flown (at least with the correct transponder code) in the last six months. I guess the pilot was some cowboy who didn't care whether or not he hit anyone on the runway.

I vaguely recall seeing something similar from a year or so ago, but that occurred down in Brazil, as I recall.

Cheers,
Grog
capngrog is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2020, 18:19
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: FL, USA
Posts: 2,483
Its all good fun till somebody gets killed.
B2N2 is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2020, 18:43
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Paisley, Florida USA
Posts: 227
Originally Posted by B2N2 View Post
Its all good fun till somebody gets killed.
That's only part of the "old saying". The full saying is: "It's all fun and games until somebody gets knocked up, down or out". By way of explanation for our British Cousins, "knocked up" in Americanese, means impregnated.

Cheers,
Grog
capngrog is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2020, 19:17
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Age: 55
Posts: 143
low flying

Originally Posted by capngrog View Post
That's only part of the "old saying". The full saying is: "It's all fun and games until somebody gets knocked up, down or out". By way of explanation for our British Cousins, "knocked up" in Americanese, means impregnated.

Cheers,
Grog
Yeah, means the same here - also, the original phrase goes back to Roman times apparently, "it's all fun & games until someone loses an eye", as eye gouging wasn't allowed, although pretty much everything else was...
alfaman is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2020, 20:28
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Brazil
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by capngrog View Post
Yeah, that was WAAAY too low. At first I thought that it might be CGI, but it looks real to me. I looked up the airplane, and it is Venezuelan registry, YV3228, a Cessna Citation 550B. According to AirNav Radar Box, it hasn't flown (at least with the correct transponder code) in the last six months. I guess the pilot was some cowboy who didn't care whether or not he hit anyone on the runway.

I vaguely recall seeing something similar from a year or so ago, but that occurred down in Brazil, as I recall.

Cheers,
Grog
Hi Grog! That's correct, last year happened one of these in Brazil. There was a party and a lot of people were watching the low pass.

Unfortunately, we still have some irresponsible "Pilots" performing this kind of "show" here in Brazil.

Best Regards
BeechcraftPilot is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2020, 22:54
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Left coast
Posts: 5
Anybody have a link for those of us who haven't seen the video?
SDVFR is online now  
Old 12th Sep 2020, 23:03
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The No Transgression Zone
Posts: 2,290
Also, why were there people on the RWY in the first place?
Pugilistic Animus is online now  
Old 13th Sep 2020, 00:44
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 3,393
Prearranged set up.
megan is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2020, 03:43
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Paisley, Florida USA
Posts: 227
Originally Posted by megan View Post
Prearranged set up.
I agree that it was a prearranged set up, but I think that this "buzz job" busted the usual standards for a safe low pass and panicked the folks waiting on the runway to make a video to post on their face-twitter-tik-insta-snap whatever, ad nauseam. If it's not on social media with lotsa "likes", I guess it's just not worthy of consideration.

Cheers,
Grog
capngrog is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2020, 12:09
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: FL450
Posts: 477
I originally came from a Bizjet background, spent a few years in the Airlines and then went back to Bizjets. It really pissed me off when at an airline interview I was asked many times by a tainted interview board (or so I thought) why they should give a "proper" job to "cowboys" that fly small jets?

So I'll just let that question settle for a while?

KH.
Kelly Hopper is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2020, 13:16
  #12 (permalink)  
TWT
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: troposphere
Posts: 725
Originally Posted by SDVFR View Post
Anybody have a link for those of us who haven't seen the video?
It's there in the first post. You're not seeing it because your browser settings or other browser add-ons are blocking it.

Try a different browser. My browser settings block Twitter too.
TWT is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2020, 14:30
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Left coast
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by TWT View Post
It's there in the first post. You're not seeing it because your browser settings or other browser add-ons are blocking it.

Try a different browser. My browser settings block Twitter too.
Working now - thanks.
SDVFR is online now  
Old 13th Sep 2020, 15:39
  #14 (permalink)  
The Cooler King
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In the Desert
Posts: 1,682
This is a forty year old Venezuelan (YV-3228) registered Citation

Video is from back in 2017.
Farrell is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2020, 17:10
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Paisley, Florida USA
Posts: 227
Originally Posted by Farrell View Post
This is a forty year old Venezuelan (YV-3228) registered Citation

Video is from back in 2017.
How were you able to tell that the video was from 2017? I'm just curious about that because I'd also like to be able to determine the age of various videos.

Cheers,
Grog
capngrog is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2020, 17:39
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: France / UK
Age: 65
Posts: 983
Originally Posted by Kelly Hopper View Post
I originally came from a Bizjet background, spent a few years in the Airlines and then went back to Bizjets. It really pissed me off when at an airline interview I was asked many times by a tainted interview board (or so I thought) why they should give a "proper" job to "cowboys" that fly small jets?

So I'll just let that question settle for a while?

KH.
I too came from a (UK) biz jet background to the (UK) airlines. The biz jet operation was top-notch, Public Transport, multi-crew and taught me a lot. I then contemporaneously instructed and examined on Citations/CJs while flying 737, 747, A320 and 787 as copilot and eventually captain and trainer in the airlines. My experience showed me that the ratio of “cowboys” to “professionals” was much higher in the (UK) biz jet world than in the (UK) airlines. Why was this? In one word: discipline.

I used to advise my biz jet friends who seemed to be set on a career in that world, “Spend five years in a UK airline. You’ll learn to fly properly; might even get a command. Then you can come back to the bizjet world and recognise the cowboys.”

Ex-forces and ex-airline pilots in the biz jet world generally were far better pilots/operators than those without that experience. Obviously there were exceptions, but that was my experience.

eckhard is online now  
Old 13th Sep 2020, 22:16
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: 3nm SE of TNT, UK
Posts: 424
Low Passes

As we were frequently reminded in my military days, when it comes to low passes, the best you can do is equal the record - which was usually accompanied by a photograph of scraped earth and a pile of burnt wreckage.........
Fortyodd2 is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2020, 01:30
  #18 (permalink)  
601
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Age: 74
Posts: 1,152
Ex-forces and ex-airline pilots in the biz jet world generally were far better pilots/operators than those without that experience. Obviously there were exceptions, but that was my experience.
One did not have to join the airlines or the forces.
Some of us could recognise the "cowboys" while we were still flying C182s and Barons before climbing the ladder to corporate jets.

Tragically, most of the "cowboys" did not survive to climb the ladder to corporate jets.

I note in the video that he/she started rolling before climbing from the low pass. Best way to end up cartwheeling down the runway.

One of the closes call I have witnessed was two airforce transport aircraft depart in formation, They were on each side of the runway for the take-off roll in trail. As they both lifted off and raised the gear, the first aircraft turned across in front the second aircraft to "beatup" the gingerbeers. This caused the second aircraft to descend extremely close to the ground which by this stage was also heading towards the gingerbeers.

Being in the forces did not automatically give you discipline.



Last edited by 601; 14th Sep 2020 at 01:40.
601 is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2020, 04:54
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by Fortyodd2 View Post
As we were frequently reminded in my military days, when it comes to low passes, the best you can do is equal the record - which was usually accompanied by a photograph of scraped earth and a pile of burnt wreckage.........
Sadly the low pass 'record' is held by a C130 at South Cerney

RAF pilot 'in deadly game of chicken'

A jury watched video film yesterday showing the moment an army private was killed in an alleged game of "chicken" as he was buzzed by a low-flying RAF Hercules aircraft.

The film captured the Hercules XP186 in a low pass over South Cerney military airfield near Cirencester, Glos, in August 1994.
Private Christopher Game, 22, from Poole, Dorset, who was standing on his recovery truck roof, died from multiple injuries when struck by the rear ramp of the transport aircraft flying at 140mph, 12ft to 14ft from the ground.The four minute video was the last of 21 shown in prosecution evidence in the Bristol Crown Court trial of the Hercules pilot, Squadron Leader Michael Morison, 42.

He denies the manslaughter of Pte Game, a single man.

The private's death on the afternoon of August 4 was captured on the film shot from inside the Hercules.

For some minutes, the aircraft circled woods and fields before coming in over the airfield.

The jury then saw only a blur of movement as the private's body fell from the roof of his truck cab and a piece of the aircraft's lowered rear ramp was seen tumbling to the ground.

The Crown say there was a practice among the Hercules crew, including Morison, to make very low level passes after a completed drop operation.

They say these unauthorised passes had no operational value and were aimed at creating excitement and bravado among the air crew and people on the ground.

Mark Evans QC, for the Crown, said: "It was a game that could be described in some ways as playing chicken."

He maintained that the squadron leader had aimed the aircraft with the intention of passing low and "buzzing" Pte Game and others in the drop zone.

The jury were told the pilot and the private were part of a joint RAF/Army unit involved in testing air-drop equipment and techniques.

Both men were stationed at Brize Norton, Oxfordshire.

Private Game was the driver of a recovery truck fitted with a jib crane. The crane controls were on the roof of his cab.

Mr Evans said for some time previously a practice had developed where inspection runs were made after successful drops.

These runs were becoming lower and lower, the aim being to create excitement from the risk involved. The low passes were a "bit of fun", he said.

The prosecution said in some cases aircraft were between 14ft and 28ft from the ground.

On a second pass a number of the men dropped their trousers to expose their bottoms to the aircraft. Mr Evans said the squadron leader was a distinguished pilot with over 2,500 flying hours on Hercules aircraft.

He had served for 20 years, mostly as an operational pilot, and also flew Tornados.

Mr Evans said the jury might hear evidence the pilot's radio altimeter had failed at 70ft in approaching South Cerney.

It was reported defective by the flight engineer and later proved to be operating outside normal tolerances.

But Mr Evans said the altimeter was not crucial to the low pass which depended on the pilot's visual approach.

He told the jury: "It does not explain why he was coming in that low. The prosecution say the question of the radio altimeter is effectively a red herring. It has no bearing on the reason for being so low."

Independent Newspaper

Sqn Ldr Michael Morison was charged with manslaughter and stood trial at Bristol Crown Court. He was cleared of the charge, but lost his Commission.

Edit to correct and add




Last edited by Islandlad; 17th Sep 2020 at 02:59.
Islandlad is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2020, 09:06
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,338
601- Being in the forces did not automatically give you discipline.
Totally correct ... see Rotorheads thread on retreating blade stall.
Cornish Jack is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.