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Netjets Europe fires 25% of pilots

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Netjets Europe fires 25% of pilots

Old 17th May 2020, 20:34
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Europe mainly
Posts: 88
Well,
Owners will not care too much I am afraid. They read newspapers as well, job cuts where ever you look at.

Last edited by Delta12; 18th May 2020 at 05:23.
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Old 18th May 2020, 06:18
  #62 (permalink)  
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Well owners do care. They spent a lot of money buying shares in an unstable company. Will it still exist next year ? What will happen to my shares ?

There are a lot of unknown factors in the (near) future but one seems to be pretty clear..business aviation demand will increase big time.

And that's the weird thing. Why would a company get rid of an entire fleet in a market that is predicted by everyone in this sector to surge....

I don't see any logic in this strategy and for sure I don't sympathize.
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Old 18th May 2020, 11:19
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Complete Bollox,
I would trust my money for sure NetJets more than Vista and the likes.

I hope, for all of us, that as you say demand rises back quickly.
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Old 18th May 2020, 11:27
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Originally Posted by Delta12 View Post
Complete Bollox,
I would trust my money for sure NetJets more than Vista and the likes.

I hope, for all of us, that as you say demand rises back quickly.
Hopefully - though it makes for very poor PR in the sense of the financial strength of a company if one has made 25% of staff redundancy (with no attempt to access the state money available throughout Europe to avoid exactly that outcome) and the other made no cuts whatsoever.

Not that I believe it was done for financial strength reasons, more of a BA-style opportunism to adjust the terms by a president who has said outright that he objected to the CBA before Covid came along
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Old 18th May 2020, 11:50
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Europe mainly
Posts: 88
On top of that, yes it seems NJ is the only one of the few big players that laid off staff.
But (unfortunately) I am not convinced it stays like that. Every Pilot without a job is bad news for all of us.
I wish the market rebounds quickly, as that would mean as well that all that were made redundant could be rehired in position and seniority.
If they wish obviously.
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Old 18th May 2020, 12:24
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Gernany
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Most crew laid off now will not be eligible for re-hire in old rank, salary and (partial) seniority, because they are being blackmailed into signing a letter to not take any legal against the company. No signature, no re-hiring. And most people doubt that there will be re-hiring within the given time-frame. It's a nasty situation, driven by ego and numbers, not by ethics and morale.
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Old 18th May 2020, 13:47
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Europe mainly
Posts: 88
I would sign. There is no case in this one that would stand a chance in court.
Even though I appreciate that feelings boil high and the situation being affected feels completely wrong and unfair.
I just think there is nothing to win in court that’s worth giving away the rehire option.
But hey, I am not a lawyer so....
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Old 18th May 2020, 19:34
  #68 (permalink)  
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Interesting to hear that a member of the executive board of the Union just got re-hired....MJ...so unfortunate he can not reply as a kicked out PPRuNe member....

Unbelievable what game they played in this Skyshare union. I am sure they will meet a lot of friends in the FBO's in the future.

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Old 18th May 2020, 19:45
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by no nonsense View Post
Interesting to hear that a member of the executive board of the Union just got re-hired....MJ...so unfortunate he can not reply as a kicked out PPRuNe member....

Unbelievable what game they played in this Skyshare union. I am sure they will meet a lot of friends in the FBO's in the future.
I know MJ as I flew with him on the line. He is for sure a character, but sure as hell not a bad person !!!

The rehire policy is clear, no idea why you want to twist & turn it to shed some bad light on the union.

But hey, keep going, just grabbing a beer and some popcorn...
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Old 18th May 2020, 20:59
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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A small number of pilots took voluntary redundancy and this saved an equal number of pilots from the Falcon fleet, according to seniority. He was lucky along with a few others.

And re court cases: it'll be worth the fight for a decent lump sum and not the joke that they are paying us now for being fired outside the line of seniority. If people saw a realistic chance to come back, they would have signed. But obviously people do not trust management anymore and in the past most court cases against Netjets resulted in favour of the ex-employees.
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Old 19th May 2020, 08:35
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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From the outside it looks a lot different from the last time, where - whilst disliking the company Netjets for trying to take my job away - I thought they were fair in relations to the work force.

As for the courts: there is saying in German, going roughly along the line of:

"on the high seas and in front of a court you are in gods hands".

Good luck in outlawyering a company of this size...
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Old 19th May 2020, 12:52
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
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It has nothing to do with the size of the company. BA is much bigger and many have gone to law with successful results against them over the years. It has everything to do with the structure of the company quite deliberately designed to deny workers their rights. Look at the previous posts... "sign this statement to say you will not take legal recourse or no re-employment."
Netjets Europe has been an employment scam from day one. It still is. Quite honestly I am astounded that all these EU countries allow this psudo employment model to continue.
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Old 19th May 2020, 20:40
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by happyjack View Post
It has nothing to do with the size of the company. BA is much bigger and many have gone to law with successful results against them over the years. It has everything to do with the structure of the company quite deliberately designed to deny workers their rights. Look at the previous posts... "sign this statement to say you will not take legal recourse or no re-employment."
Netjets Europe has been an employment scam from day one. It still is. Quite honestly I am astounded that all these EU countries allow this psudo employment model to continue.
Wow ! That is a terrific statement to call NetJets a scam !! I am flabbergasted big time.

What about this:

In Europe there is hardly no small BIZ Jet operator where you are not 24/7/365 on call !

I flew with guys from Vista that said, if there is no plan for the next day, you are considered to be available all day.

THAT is absolute crap ! Modern slavery at its best !

NetJets always and ever in my 13 years of employment respected the law, I was never asked to cut corners. They always adhered to the governing laws.
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Old 20th May 2020, 08:59
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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"Wow ! That is a terrific statement to call NetJets a scam !! I am flabbergasted big time."

Read my comment again? I called their employment a scam.

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Old 20th May 2020, 11:57
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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I guess we will see more comments by laid off Netjets crew once all the administrative items have been completed and the "compensation" has been paid out...
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Old 21st May 2020, 19:49
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Forgive my ignorance, but whatís NetJet Europeís model? Do they own and operate, or are the fractional owners on the hook for the monthly costs through the shutdown?

It will be interesting to see how the owned/leased fleets fair. Is Vista predominently leased?
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Old 22nd May 2020, 05:32
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
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What happened with the orders for the lattitude and longitude that netjets had. Will any of those come instead of the F2000? And if so, can the 2000 pilots come back on those?
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Old 22nd May 2020, 06:08
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Originally Posted by pilot dude View Post
What happened with the orders for the lattitude and longitude that netjets had. Will any of those come instead of the F2000? And if so, can the 2000 pilots come back on those?
Wasnít NetJets the big order Textron needed for the Hemisphere as well? I think it was a big Longitude commitment at the same time. It will be interesting to see what happens with the Hemisphere and how NetJets proceed with those commitments. Iím not convinced Textron are capable of matching the likes of Gulfstream, Bombardier or Dassault in that sector, particularly in terms of tailored cabin fits and quality control. But no doubt the Hemisphere will be cheap in comparison.

You would think a fractional would be the ideal vehicle to mop up the touted occasional users of bizav who are expected to cause a bump in the market post-COVID19. Fingers crossed for the F2TH crew.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 08:11
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Originally Posted by Journey Man View Post
Wasnít NetJets the big order Textron needed for the Hemisphere as well? I think it was a big Longitude commitment at the same time. It will be interesting to see what happens with the Hemisphere and how NetJets proceed with those commitments. Iím not convinced Textron are capable of matching the likes of Gulfstream, Bombardier or Dassault in that sector, particularly in terms of tailored cabin fits and quality control. But no doubt the Hemisphere will be cheap in comparison.

You would think a fractional would be the ideal vehicle to mop up the touted occasional users of bizav who are expected to cause a bump in the market post-COVID19. Fingers crossed for the F2TH crew.
The Hemisphere development has been suspended due to problems with the Silvercrest engine. The Longitude order still stands I believe and NetJets US have already started taking delivery.

And by the way, it's not just Falcon crews who are being made redundant. So good luck to all of the affected colleagues.

Fractional is a good alternative to full ownership and charter for those who use a private jet 50 to maybe 200 hours or so a year. The occasional user is better off chartering or buying a card. Someone who flies say 400 hours a year is probably better off with their own, managed aircraft.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 10:28
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Europe
Posts: 8
I have heard that NJE senior management have awarded themselves a pay rise following the recent management restructuring.... supposedly increased responsibilities... I thought in the consultations with the Union they claimed there was no money in the pot ? Shame on them...
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