Vistajet Future

[Daddy Fantastic]

Whats going on with Vistajet hiring and do they still do that 17/13 schedule for pilots or has that changed now?
I heard they are getting quite desperate for crews as well....anybody with current info?

[dirk85]

The salary is attractive pretty much only for Austrians, due to a tax loophole, otherwise for the amount of work you have to do the money is pretty bad.

[Daddy Fantastic]

Schedule

Originally Posted by dirk85

The salary is attractive pretty much only for Austrians, due to a tax loophole, otherwise for the amount of work you have to do the money is pretty bad.

Well if they still do that 17 days on and 13 off that wont help their cause. Lots of pilots are married with families and dont like being away 17 days in a row. Great if you are 23 with not a care in the world but pretty much terrible for everyone else!!

[SanHor]

13 days OFF. Is that really OFF?

or do they still schedule recurrent training on these days? LPC/OPC DGR CRM etcetc

[Daddy Fantastic]

Off Days

Originally Posted by SanHor

13 days OFF. Is that really OFF?

or do they still schedule recurrent training on these days? LPC/OPC DGR CRM etcetc

Oh yes I forgot about that. Apparently they do so there is another slap in the face.

[Globally Challenged]

I think all your leave has to be taken in those off days in addition to all training.

[Private jet]

Unfortunately I think the Austrians and to a much greater extent the Deutschers are in a state of denial about the future, and I don't just mean in aviation...

[Daddy Fantastic]

Vistajet changes

Originally Posted by Private jet

Unfortunately I think the Austrians and to a much greater extent the Deutschers are in a state of denial about the future, and I don't just mean in aviation...

From what I have heard if Vistajet dont change they wont survive. Im told the 17/13 is too much and the crew are fed up.

I am not 100% sure on this but apparently positioning flights to and from the aircraft back home are all economy class and the hotels are not that great either.

I would be very interested to see how they go over the next 12 months.

[what next]

Hello!

Originally Posted by Private jet

Unfortunately I think the Austrians and to a much greater extent the Deutschers are in a state of denial about the future, and I don't just mean in aviation...

Looking ahead with a fair amount of skepticism and always having a plan B on hand is not the worst of strategies.And regarding the original question: A 17/13 roster combined with less-than-stellar pay is certainly not very appealing in times like these where airline jobs can be found around every corner. I would like to ask some former colleagues who went to that company for more details but they have already left...

[Daddy Fantastic]

12 months

Originally Posted by what next

Hello!



Looking ahead with a fair amount of skepticism and always having a plan B on hand is not the worst of strategies.And regarding the original question: A 17/13 roster combined with less-than-stellar pay is certainly not very appealing in times like these where airline jobs can be found around every corner. I would like to ask some former colleagues who went to that company for more details but they have already left...

Bar the economy tanking it, I would be very surprised if these guys can operate the way they are at present in 12 months time. Lots will go to airlines for a lot more money and far better schedules, as I said most have families and wont do 17 on 13 off for rubbish pay.

[what next]

Originally Posted by Daddy Fantastic

Bar the economy tanking it, I would be very surprised if these guys can operate the way they are at present in 12 months time. Lots will go to airlines for a lot more money and far better schedules, as I said most have families and wont do 17 on 13 off for rubbish pay.

Yes. But don't forget that we have the current situation since only about a year. Before that, the few airline jobs to be found were mostly pay-to-fly and with minimum-rest rosters which are no more family friendly than 17/13. At least Vistajet always hired people during those bad years and paid them something instead of taking money. Will be interesting to see what they (and many other bizjet operations) will come up with to keep their crews from running away.

[Daddy Fantastic]

Next 12 months

Originally Posted by what next

Yes. But don't forget that we have the current situation since only about a year. Before that, the few airline jobs to be found were mostly pay-to-fly and with minimum-rest rosters which are no more family friendly than 17/13. At least Vistajet always hired people during those bad years and paid them something instead of taking money. Will be interesting to see what they (and many other bizjet operations) will come up with to keep their crews from running away.

I agree with what you said but ultimately just like a business a pilot will always do what is in their own best interest with regards to jobs and money. Something will have to give and I suspect it will be Vistajet and not the flight crew who will be forced into a change.

[His dudeness]

Originally Posted by Private jet

Unfortunately I think the Austrians and to a much greater extent the Deutschers are in a state of denial about the future, and I don't just mean in aviation...

Care to explain what you mean ?

[His dudeness]

Originally Posted by Daddy Fantastic

I agree with what you said but ultimately just like a business a pilot will always do what is in their own best interest with regards to jobs and money. Something will have to give and I suspect it will be Vistajet and not the flight crew who will be forced into a change.

You think ? I think there are more than enough people on the market who will except ANYTHING just to fly a bigger airplane etcetc. The small operators are more and more a thing of the past and thus available jobs who suit individuals are getting less. Fit into the Vista or NetJets scheme - as an example - or donīt fly executive. Period.

[Daddy Fantastic]

Originally Posted by His dudeness

You think ? I think there are more than enough people on the market who will except ANYTHING just to fly a bigger airplane etcetc. The small operators are more and more a thing of the past and thus available jobs who suit individuals are getting less. Fit into the Vista or NetJets scheme - as an example - or donīt fly executive. Period.

Well we will see over the next 12 months or so. As I said barring the economy tanking it pilots now have choices and if its bigger planes to fly like you said then airlines are the way to go.

Corporate flying is usually a lifestyle thing for a lot of flight crew. If you want stability then airlines are far better for you.

[His dudeness]

Originally Posted by Daddy Fantastic

If you want stability then airlines are far better for you.

Whilst that is true for a lot of jobs, it ainīt for the Netjetters and a quite a few other people to. NetJets dudes do have very stable rosters, Iīm told...

[His dudeness]

Originally Posted by Daddy Fantastic

if its bigger planes to fly like you said then airlines are the way to go...

Think a CJ or Mustang dude earning next to nothing. Opportunity to fly, say, an airplane with an APU and standup cabin ? Anytime, I would guess.

[EatMyShorts!]

Yes, rosters at Netjets are rock-solid. If you do not agree to extend or show a day early (for extra-$$$) then you just don't that and they will look for someone else on the fleet. In this sense we are the "airline amongst business jet operators". I personally would not go for another business jet operator outside Netjets, I'd swallow the bitter pill of going back to the airlines, if I had to leave. Exception: find a great private owner who genuinely takes care of his crew: then you get good money and you make your own roster, you pick your own hotels etc.. There are not too many around and you mainly get those jobs through connections.

At the moment I would NOT change company, the next economic downturn is around the corner and quite a few operators/airliners will not survive it.

[Daddy Fantastic]

Netjets

Originally Posted by EatMyShorts!

Yes, rosters at Netjets are rock-solid. If you do not agree to extend or show a day early (for extra-$$$) then you just don't that and they will look for someone else on the fleet. In this sense we are the "airline amongst business jet operators". I personally would not go for another business jet operator outside Netjets, I'd swallow the bitter pill of going back to the airlines, if I had to leave. Exception: find a great private owner who genuinely takes care of his crew: then you get good money and you make your own roster, you pick your own hotels etc.. There are not too many around and you mainly get those jobs through connections.

At the moment I would NOT change company, the next economic downturn is around the corner and quite a few operators/airliners will not survive it.

On the flip side of that coin look what NJ did to their flight crews after 2008 crash, it was not pretty and hiring stagnated for years. In saying that I would rather be at NJ than Vistajet and if I could get a corporate job (PIC or very quick upgrade) with good pay and a 5 on 5 off schedule for example I would leave my airline job in a heartbeat.

I dont really care about equipment and the latest glass cockpit etc but if I did go corporate I would want something no smaller than a Challenger 300/604/605 etc. Dont want a mickey mouse phenom 100 after flying on jets all above 40 up to 93 tons.

Vistajet I think will either have to make some radical changes or find themselves in a lot of trouble.

[Globally Challenged]

Originally Posted by Daddy Fantastic

On the flip side of that coin look what NJ did to their flight crews after 2008 crash, it was not pretty and hiring stagnated for years. In saying that I would rather be at NJ than Vistajet and if I could get a corporate job (PIC or very quick upgrade) with good pay and a 5 on 5 off schedule for example I would leave my airline job in a heartbeat.

I dont really care about equipment and the latest glass cockpit etc but if I did go corporate I would want something no smaller than a Challenger 300/604/605 etc. Dont want a mickey mouse phenom 100 after flying on jets all above 40 up to 93 tons.

Vistajet I think will either have to make some radical changes or find themselves in a lot of trouble.

I have no complaints in how I was treated by NJE during the downturn.

All the cost saving options were exactly that - optional.

Initially went on Job Share (4yrs program alternating with year on / year off while on 60% salary throughout). My rating was renewed just before year off and I found an 11 month contract on the same type so got 2 salaries and continued with all the NJE benefits and protection from any compulsory redundancy for the 4 years.

Then about 18 months in to the above, they dangled an attractive carrot for voluntary redundancy with 15 months full salary + 3 months for every year of service.

Show me a company who treated their pilots better during the hard times and I will be impressed.