Vistajet Future
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How does the employment in Vistjet work?
Are you a "contractor"?
Or everyone is permanently employed by the Maltese company?
Or they have multiple secondary companies in various European states to employ pilots locally in their domicile?
Are any residents of certain European countries excluded from being offered a job in Vistajet? The reason I am asking is that on PPJN there is a note "No French airports" for commuting.
Thanks
Are you a "contractor"?
Or everyone is permanently employed by the Maltese company?
Or they have multiple secondary companies in various European states to employ pilots locally in their domicile?
Are any residents of certain European countries excluded from being offered a job in Vistajet? The reason I am asking is that on PPJN there is a note "No French airports" for commuting.
Thanks
Yes they had secondary companies in many European countries where you would receive your salary from. Like, Spain, Italy, Germany, UK etc.
No I have never heard of anyone being excluded because you had a specific nationality. Most nationalities from all over Europe were represented on the flight deck and in the cabin. Just don't be male cabin crew as they have never hired one.
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People were on permanent position with Maltese contract or freelancing contract. You could choose and what you choose mostly depends on where you want to live. In some countries there were no official gateways and then people went for the freelancing contract and took full responsibility for tax payments. There were no, and I guess still aren't, French gateways but I think that would be acceptable with a freelancing contract. Most French were commuting from nearby airports from outside France.
Yes they had secondary companies in many European countries where you would receive your salary from. Like, Spain, Italy, Germany, UK etc.
No I have never heard of anyone being excluded because you had a specific nationality. Most nationalities from all over Europe were represented on the flight deck and in the cabin. Just don't be male cabin crew as they have never hired one.
Yes they had secondary companies in many European countries where you would receive your salary from. Like, Spain, Italy, Germany, UK etc.
No I have never heard of anyone being excluded because you had a specific nationality. Most nationalities from all over Europe were represented on the flight deck and in the cabin. Just don't be male cabin crew as they have never hired one.
So basically today you have only 2 options, permanent in Malta or Freelance?
No more "local" companies, correct?
Thanks
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I have been asking around on LinkedIn and got in to contact with a crew member who flies the Global Fleet:
- the 13 off days fall every month about the same period, however, it is possible to swap with crew
- If your trip is extended, or if you offer to work more, you get extra money and bonuses (bonus is payed the following February)
- Salary could be better, but in return you get a stable working pattern and his opinion is that the company takes good care of you. For the contact I had, it suited him and his personal life perfectly (I interpret it as 'easily adjustable to your life')
- It can be very very long days on the Global, however, fair layover times (2 to 3 days) so you do get your rest.
- Hotels are almost always topnotch
- Flying approximately 600-700 hours a year and approximately 3 to 4 years till command (also depending on your entry hours)
- Tax situation is dependant upon the country where you live and if they have an agreement with Malta
- Catering is mixed; sometimes crewfood, sometimes food that pax did not eat (which is more than sufficient) or take something yourself. Asking around about this; almost all the companies that have a structure like VistaJet do the same.
- The person I was in contact with said as well that commuting is good (outside of Corona) and quite often gets business class
- Money is not bad and per diems included in should be good!
In my opinion the off day system is not the best; but travelling the world (or throughout your continent) having 2 weeks off for me is more than enough and being able to get on the road after being 2 weeks at home is quite nice. I think this lifestyle should suit you. People I know working at major cargo operators are away for 19 days and get 12 days off and loads of minimum rest on their trips. Or, working 5-4 on a predictable roster is good for planning purposes. But, everybody has their own wishes and demands of a company.
My experience of pilots (i am one as well) is that they are 'Most Annoying' people to work with... it is never good; it is never enough money (people my age in "normal" jobs earn less than half sometimes IN WESTERN EUROPE), the hotels are not good enough, the layovers are too short, the layover are too long, the FO/CPT is an asshole/lazy/arrogant, the food is not good, the passengers are cranky, management is not good, management this, management that. If you go to a company, you know what you sign up for. No one ever gets the best of the best, because it does not exist.
People who are aspiring to join VistaJet don't let your motivation be knocked down by someone who does not agree with something; apply for it if you want, experience it yourself and make a decision yourself.
I'd rather regret choosing something, than regretting to not experience it all!
- the 13 off days fall every month about the same period, however, it is possible to swap with crew
- If your trip is extended, or if you offer to work more, you get extra money and bonuses (bonus is payed the following February)
- Salary could be better, but in return you get a stable working pattern and his opinion is that the company takes good care of you. For the contact I had, it suited him and his personal life perfectly (I interpret it as 'easily adjustable to your life')
- It can be very very long days on the Global, however, fair layover times (2 to 3 days) so you do get your rest.
- Hotels are almost always topnotch
- Flying approximately 600-700 hours a year and approximately 3 to 4 years till command (also depending on your entry hours)
- Tax situation is dependant upon the country where you live and if they have an agreement with Malta
- Catering is mixed; sometimes crewfood, sometimes food that pax did not eat (which is more than sufficient) or take something yourself. Asking around about this; almost all the companies that have a structure like VistaJet do the same.
- The person I was in contact with said as well that commuting is good (outside of Corona) and quite often gets business class
- Money is not bad and per diems included in should be good!
In my opinion the off day system is not the best; but travelling the world (or throughout your continent) having 2 weeks off for me is more than enough and being able to get on the road after being 2 weeks at home is quite nice. I think this lifestyle should suit you. People I know working at major cargo operators are away for 19 days and get 12 days off and loads of minimum rest on their trips. Or, working 5-4 on a predictable roster is good for planning purposes. But, everybody has their own wishes and demands of a company.
My experience of pilots (i am one as well) is that they are 'Most Annoying' people to work with... it is never good; it is never enough money (people my age in "normal" jobs earn less than half sometimes IN WESTERN EUROPE), the hotels are not good enough, the layovers are too short, the layover are too long, the FO/CPT is an asshole/lazy/arrogant, the food is not good, the passengers are cranky, management is not good, management this, management that. If you go to a company, you know what you sign up for. No one ever gets the best of the best, because it does not exist.
People who are aspiring to join VistaJet don't let your motivation be knocked down by someone who does not agree with something; apply for it if you want, experience it yourself and make a decision yourself.
I'd rather regret choosing something, than regretting to not experience it all!
Last edited by MostAnnoying; 4th Mar 2021 at 17:32.
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The best contracts were the Austrian, Italian and Spanish where you hardly pay any tax at all. It makes a very low salary suddenly one of the best around. It's difficult to beat a Vistajet captain take home salary in Austria even with a well paid owners job. That's why some people say the salary is great and others living in north Europa saying it's not so good, where you can't use loopholes in the tax systems.
People who are aspiring to join VistaJet don't let your motivation be knocked down by someone who does not agree with something; apply for it if you want, experience it yourself and make a decision yourself.
I'd rather regret choosing something, than regretting to not experience it all!
I'd rather regret choosing something, than regretting to not experience it all!
And that's exactly why one should be informed of all the contractual and factual details before applying, especially if he or she is coming from another job in aviation. Just to avoid disappointment. I am well aware that in general the crew life at Vista is nice, we keep running into them at various places and most of them are really cool - like in most other companies. One just needs to make sure that the contract/conditions do not contain any personal deal breakers. I personally would NOT be happy to be asked to work on my days OFF (training, commuting etc.), because this is duty and I only perform duty on duty days. So, Vista would probably be not my cup of tea.
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Anyone have any further info about license requirements? Careers site says "part-fcl" license, not specified as EASA... So if someone hasn't got an EASA license, can they still work for VJ as they operate European AOC. I have heard of Australian and south African pilots flying for vista and don't hold easa licenses. Anyone shed any light? Cheers
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That depends on the alternatives. I just read on the internet, that "Deutsche Bahn" (german rail) is massively recruiting train drivers among the thousands of currently unemployed pilots. Train drivers do not get weekends off on a routine basis and are not home every night either. I am pretty sure that they don't usually stay in five star hotels or get business class airline tickets when proceeding home after their shift. And about pay I would rather not elaborate. No idea if their proceedings and trainings are done on duty or off days.
If I had to choose between train or Vistajet (luckily I don't) I would know what to take.
Regards
Max
If I had to choose between train or Vistajet (luckily I don't) I would know what to take.
Regards
Max
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Basically, I do agree with you. I am sure there are quite a few colleagues who will be happy with the Vista lifestyle and I am all fine with that. But once you have seen something "better", you don't want to give it up, or would you?
And that's exactly why one should be informed of all the contractual and factual details before applying, especially if he or she is coming from another job in aviation. Just to avoid disappointment. I am well aware that in general the crew life at Vista is nice, we keep running into them at various places and most of them are really cool - like in most other companies. One just needs to make sure that the contract/conditions do not contain any personal deal breakers. I personally would NOT be happy to be asked to work on my days OFF (training, commuting etc.), because this is duty and I only perform duty on duty days. So, Vista would probably be not my cup of tea.
And that's exactly why one should be informed of all the contractual and factual details before applying, especially if he or she is coming from another job in aviation. Just to avoid disappointment. I am well aware that in general the crew life at Vista is nice, we keep running into them at various places and most of them are really cool - like in most other companies. One just needs to make sure that the contract/conditions do not contain any personal deal breakers. I personally would NOT be happy to be asked to work on my days OFF (training, commuting etc.), because this is duty and I only perform duty on duty days. So, Vista would probably be not my cup of tea.
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Basically, I do agree with you. I am sure there are quite a few colleagues who will be happy with the Vista lifestyle and I am all fine with that. But once you have seen something "better", you don't want to give it up, or would you?
And that's exactly why one should be informed of all the contractual and factual details before applying, especially if he or she is coming from another job in aviation. Just to avoid disappointment. I am well aware that in general the crew life at Vista is nice, we keep running into them at various places and most of them are really cool - like in most other companies. One just needs to make sure that the contract/conditions do not contain any personal deal breakers. I personally would NOT be happy to be asked to work on my days OFF (training, commuting etc.), because this is duty and I only perform duty on duty days. So, Vista would probably be not my cup of tea.
And that's exactly why one should be informed of all the contractual and factual details before applying, especially if he or she is coming from another job in aviation. Just to avoid disappointment. I am well aware that in general the crew life at Vista is nice, we keep running into them at various places and most of them are really cool - like in most other companies. One just needs to make sure that the contract/conditions do not contain any personal deal breakers. I personally would NOT be happy to be asked to work on my days OFF (training, commuting etc.), because this is duty and I only perform duty on duty days. So, Vista would probably be not my cup of tea.
But, the talks on this page are somewhat quite negative. Not just on this Forum, but on loads of them!
That depends on the alternatives. I just read on the internet, that "Deutsche Bahn" (german rail) is massively recruiting train drivers among the thousands of currently unemployed pilots. Train drivers do not get weekends off on a routine basis and are not home every night either. I am pretty sure that they don't usually stay in five star hotels or get business class airline tickets when proceeding home after their shift. And about pay I would rather not elaborate. No idea if their proceedings and trainings are done on duty or off days.
If I had to choose between train or Vistajet (luckily I don't) I would know what to take.
Regards
Max
If I had to choose between train or Vistajet (luckily I don't) I would know what to take.
Regards
Max
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Eat My Shorts and Tinfoil Hat
First, my comment about factory workers related to legal requirements. As far as the law is concerned we are no different.
But i think the main issue is people, including a lot on here, misundestanding the contract. You are not doing anything in your "off" days. The contract is to fly the 17 day rotations and to attend sim training and the week in Malta. The rest of the time beyond that is your "off" time. Since it is more than is legally required, it is perfectly reasonable of them to offer it. If that and the salary are acceptable to your goals and lifestyle, then go ahead and sign it - i wouldn't. But to start foaming about it being "disgusting treatment" is delusional.
If enough people don't sign then they will be forced to improve it by market forces, but i'm not holding my breath on that.
First, my comment about factory workers related to legal requirements. As far as the law is concerned we are no different.
But i think the main issue is people, including a lot on here, misundestanding the contract. You are not doing anything in your "off" days. The contract is to fly the 17 day rotations and to attend sim training and the week in Malta. The rest of the time beyond that is your "off" time. Since it is more than is legally required, it is perfectly reasonable of them to offer it. If that and the salary are acceptable to your goals and lifestyle, then go ahead and sign it - i wouldn't. But to start foaming about it being "disgusting treatment" is delusional.
If enough people don't sign then they will be forced to improve it by market forces, but i'm not holding my breath on that.
I was made redundant last year (and got the job back soon after) and I was not prepared to do this kind of stuff. I was prepared for 1 or 2 years of not being employed in aviation, maybe take some other job outside aviation in the meantime. A war chest always helps, fill it up in the good years!
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It will probably sound arrogant, but I personally would not join either. The company I work for has a subsidiary where the roster is 20 ON, 10 OFF. Even worse than Vista. No way.
I was made redundant last year (and got the job back soon after) and I was not prepared to do this kind of stuff. I was prepared for 1 or 2 years of not being employed in aviation, maybe take some other job outside aviation in the meantime. A war chest always helps, fill it up in the good years!
I was made redundant last year (and got the job back soon after) and I was not prepared to do this kind of stuff. I was prepared for 1 or 2 years of not being employed in aviation, maybe take some other job outside aviation in the meantime. A war chest always helps, fill it up in the good years!
People need to start getting their heads of the dirt and realize that there is only a handful of jobs like those and when you are in, it’s not good again!
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AFAIK it takes between two and three years to become a fully qualified train driver here. Paid for by the employer and with a salary while you are being trained. Thereafter you must work your way up from small regional train via night freight to shiny high-speed train. It is not entirely unsimilar to a flying career only that you do not have to pay for anything yourself... I know a guy who started as a medical doctor, later became a pilot with a regional airline and is now a train driver in Switzerland. According to him the best life he's ever had and no way he is going back to one of his previous professions.
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It will probably sound arrogant, but I personally would not join either. The company I work for has a subsidiary where the roster is 20 ON, 10 OFF. Even worse than Vista. No way.
I was made redundant last year (and got the job back soon after) and I was not prepared to do this kind of stuff. I was prepared for 1 or 2 years of not being employed in aviation, maybe take some other job outside aviation in the meantime. A war chest always helps, fill it up in the good years!
I was made redundant last year (and got the job back soon after) and I was not prepared to do this kind of stuff. I was prepared for 1 or 2 years of not being employed in aviation, maybe take some other job outside aviation in the meantime. A war chest always helps, fill it up in the good years!
“The ideal image” of a job in aviation is something that is seen in one of those movies with Leonardo Di Caprio. Good airline, recognition for the job, good pay and “sweet honeys” walking next to you!
People need to start getting their heads of the dirt and realize that there is only a handful of jobs like those and when you are in, it’s not good again!
People need to start getting their heads of the dirt and realize that there is only a handful of jobs like those and when you are in, it’s not good again!
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Hello!
This is not my experience. In my previous life I was an aerospace engineer (as in the german "Ingenieur" not the english "mechanic") both in the scientific and industrial environment, and the nagging was maybe 10% of what it is in aviation. Many former colleagues are still happily working in the same position they were in when I left them to fulfill my heavenly dream (at 1/2 of my previous income...) and most of them will stay in their same job until they retire.
The best way into corporate is to find a wealthy individual or company with some modest traveling requirements (not too much, otherwise you will never be home) and talk them into buying a business jet with you as their captain and your best buddy as co-captain or co-pilot. It has been done that way many times and usually works quite well (until the new aircraft owner finds out that he can fly at 1/3 of the cost by using NetJets or similar outfits - therefore you need to find someone so dirt-rich that money doesn't matter at all). The second best alternative is to have a buddy who did that for you already and invites you to be his co-captain 
Originally Posted by Cloud Bunny
I’m making the transition into corporate after a long time in the Airlines (long held ambition and all that) and am very interested in what options there are out there.
Maybe they are just being realistic? Apart from some lucky niches, working conditions for pilots have generally become worse and worse over the 30 years that I have been in this business. Airlines and general aviation alike. There is not much "up" left to compare oneself with.
AFAIK it takes between two and three years to become a fully qualified train driver here. Paid for by the employer and with a salary while you are being trained. Thereafter you must work your way up from small regional train via night freight to shiny high-speed train. It is not entirely unsimilar to a flying career only that you do not have to pay for anything yourself... I know a guy who started as a medical doctor, later became a pilot with a regional airline and is now a train driver in Switzerland. According to him the best life he's ever had and no way he is going back to one of his previous professions.
AFAIK it takes between two and three years to become a fully qualified train driver here. Paid for by the employer and with a salary while you are being trained. Thereafter you must work your way up from small regional train via night freight to shiny high-speed train. It is not entirely unsimilar to a flying career only that you do not have to pay for anything yourself... I know a guy who started as a medical doctor, later became a pilot with a regional airline and is now a train driver in Switzerland. According to him the best life he's ever had and no way he is going back to one of his previous professions.
And this is the beauty of the differences in us humans - and what we as individuals what from life. It's also hard to know what it's like to do something else unless you've actually done it - however parallels can be used while imagining this other "path". It's also often overlooked that the professional pilot profession is a stressful unless you're "cut" for it - it's not an earthbound job, leaving you with (almost always) "an out". So, job satisfaction is very much an individual thing. Now, for the majority of us, we deal with the stress and it's in effect no a negative stress - and a lot of us thrive from it - while those of us lucky enough get a reasonable (relatively speaking) reward for flying these aeroplanes. Each to his own!