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Vistajet Future

Old 6th Mar 2021, 18:17
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MostAnnoying View Post
More space for others to join! “The ideal image” of a job in aviation is something that is seen in one of those movies with Leonardo Di Caprio. Good airline, recognition for the job, good pay and “sweet honeys” walking next to you!

People need to start getting their heads of the dirt and realize that there is only a handful of jobs like those and when you are in, it’s not good again!
Glad I've had about 5 of those jobs for the last 25 years! Sorry you didn't bro. Times have changed, not doubt, but it's all relative. Better luck with the next job - or you could quit..!
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 18:27
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Originally Posted by what next View Post
Hello!



This is not my experience. In my previous life I was an aerospace engineer (as in the german "Ingenieur" not the english "mechanic") both in the scientific and industrial environment, and the nagging was maybe 10% of what it is in aviation. Many former colleagues are still happily working in the same position they were in when I left them to fulfill my heavenly dream (at 1/2 of my previous income...) and most of them will stay in their same job until they retire.



The best way into corporate is to find a wealthy individual or company with some modest traveling requirements (not too much, otherwise you will never be home) and talk them into buying a business jet with you as their captain and your best buddy as co-captain or co-pilot. It has been done that way many times and usually works quite well (until the new aircraft owner finds out that he can fly at 1/3 of the cost by using NetJets or similar outfits - therefore you need to find someone so dirt-rich that money doesn't matter at all). The second best alternative is to have a buddy who did that for you already and invites you to be his co-captain
I have to disagree on your perception, @what next, of the way into corporate, that you describe. I've not in a decade of business aviation come across a single pilot that made his way in to corporate as you describe it - and I work for one of the largest operators in the world. Most pilots making it into business aviation have either build their career from within this part of the industry or made the switch from airlines into the industry by being humble or accepting a relocation that would see them move onto a "larger" business jet straight away - or they have simply already been (with an airline) in a part of the world (such as Asia/China regina or Middle East) where there was a demand and their overall experience (culturally and professionally) was working in their favor.
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 19:04
  #203 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
I have to disagree on your perception, @what next, ...
This is why I put a smiley at the end of my posting. There are all sorts of business jet operators. Some are large organisations similar to an airline (e.g. NetJets) and then there are the welthy individuals who were talked into buying a plane. And everything in between.
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 19:35
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Glad I've had about 5 of those jobs for the last 25 years! Sorry you didn't bro. Times have changed, not doubt, but it's all relative. Better luck with the next job - or you could quit..!
It is a shame.... I’ve only been flying commercially for a near 4 years, and as it sound you’ve got over 5 times the experience as I have. I believe, personally, if I limit my opportunities by only wanting “the best job ever” I will never be happy.

im trying to have an open mind for every company that does not ask me to pay for my typerating
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 19:42
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Originally Posted by MostAnnoying View Post
It is a shame.... I’ve only been flying commercially for a near 4 years, and as it sound you’ve got over 5 times the experience as I have. I believe, personally, if I limit my opportunities by only wanting “the best job ever” I will never be happy.

im trying to have an open mind for every company that does not ask me to pay for my typerating
Good - keep an open mind. If you've only had 4 years of flying commercial - hopefully you'll get a good job with the fun part too. It's out there - just not with Ryanair or any of those other low cost, no night stop, or crappy Eastern European so called airlines. Go for the "legacy" ones, get onto long haul - preferably before you get married! Aviation and lifestyle within can be fun. Trust me!
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 19:49
  #206 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
No, not necessarily realistic at all. Pessimistic and realistic is not the same - in contrast to what some believe. I do feel sorry for a lot of pilots that are left in disbelieve and consequently disgruntled. It's healthy to sometimes breath in an take a good look around and see what around - and not just in one direction.

And this is the beauty of the differences in us humans - and what we as individuals what from life. It's also hard to know what it's like to do something else unless you've actually done it - however parallels can be used while imagining this other "path". It's also often overlooked that the professional pilot profession is a stressful unless you're "cut" for it - it's not an earthbound job, leaving you with (almost always) "an out". So, job satisfaction is very much an individual thing. Now, for the majority of us, we deal with the stress and it's in effect no a negative stress - and a lot of us thrive from it - while those of us lucky enough get a reasonable (relatively speaking) reward for flying these aeroplanes. Each to his own!
This.
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 19:54
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Good - keep an open mind. If you've only had 4 years of flying commercial - hopefully you'll get a good job with the fun part too. It's out there - just not with Ryanair or any of those other low cost, no night stop, or crappy Eastern European so called airlines. Go for the "legacy" ones, get onto long haul - preferably before you get married! Aviation and lifestyle within can be fun. Trust me!
what I am searching for is a company I can rely on, with a good trackrecord. For example, I’ve heard great stories about VistaJet. People who are happy and have adjusted their lifestyle to this.

ive got friends in legacy carriers who are not as happy as they thought they would and I’ve got friends in airlines such as Ryanair who are happy as can be. It’s very personal!

if I would get the chance with VistaJet, I would definitely grab it. Because if I enjoy I’ve done a good job and if not, I have experienced it. But, I believe if I can adjust to it, it’s good! So hoping on an invite.


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Old 6th Mar 2021, 20:58
  #208 (permalink)  
 
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Nobody is saying that you should not apply and work for Vista, if you are lucky to make it through. Just be realistic with your expectations, it will be hard work at times, looooooong duty days if you are on the Global. Good luck and success!
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 09:31
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Can someone update salaries at Vistajet? Is the information in Pilotjobnetwork approximate? A Global's First Officer earning 48,000 euros = 4,000 euros a month flying the global is not a lot of money, and per diem 25 - 60 euros ... Maximum you earn 4,400 euros per month...? You have to take away taxes... Thanks
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 09:38
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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As already explained above the salary is just about acceptable (for GA standard in Europe at least, where the bar is set incredibly low, thanks to all the crappy austrian/german/slovenian operators out there) for those who do not pay or pay very little taxes.
For those who do pay taxes the salary is bad, especially for the kind of workload and the time spent on the road.
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 15:04
  #211 (permalink)  
 
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How much/how long is the bond ? With these salaries, do people leave before the end of it?
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 15:09
  #212 (permalink)  
 
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Any info on this guys?

Originally Posted by CloudChopper95 View Post
Anyone have any further info about license requirements? Careers site says "part-fcl" license, not specified as EASA... So if someone hasn't got an EASA license, can they still work for VJ as they operate European AOC. I have heard of Australian and south African pilots flying for vista and don't hold easa licenses. Anyone shed any light? Cheers
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 15:09
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Originally Posted by eiffel View Post
How much/how long is the bond ? With these salaries, do people leave before the end of it?
I believe it's three years
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 15:34
  #214 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by theaviatorscorner View Post
Can someone update salaries at Vistajet? Is the information in Pilotjobnetwork approximate? A Global's First Officer earning 48,000 euros = 4,000 euros a month flying the global is not a lot of money, and per diem 25 - 60 euros ... Maximum you earn 4,400 euros per month...? You have to take away taxes... Thanks
Those numbers are correct for the Global. But you will join with even lower salary than that. If you start on the Global the starting salary is 3000 EUR less per year = 45 000 EUR until 6 months after you pass your line check. Then it will be 48 000 EUR. I would count just under a year before you see those 48 K. Depending on your performance, luck and number of sectors it would probably take you around 4-6 months until you have passed the line check. Then 6 months more with reduced salary before the 48K numbers kick in.
Salaries are:
Global start 45 000 EUR. 6 months after line check 48 000 EUR
Challenger fleets start 42 000 EUR, 6 months after line check 45 000 EUR.

Thereafter the salary increase with 3000 EUR /year after 3 years in service after the passed line check.

Per diems are most of the time tax free and varies depending on the country you live in. But count on 600-800 EUR tax free per month. They are low and you will struggle to eat for that money in some places.
Then you have quarterly bonus. All working days over 51 each quarter qualifies for extra day payment of 200 EUR /day. This one is difficult to reach as some months you will start 2-3 days late and then you won't reach those 51 days. So even if you work on your off days you will not get paid.
Annual extra days. All days you work over 204 days per year will pay you 200 EUR /day. This even includes the stand by days so will pay you around 2000 EUR extra per year.
Then there is a performance bonus that will kick in after, I think it was, 3 years of service. Can't remember the exact numbers but think you started with around 3% bonus of your annual salary. It will then increase 1% every year up to 10%.

You need to have a mental picture why you join this outfit. Things are like they are and will never improve. Salaries have been the same since around 2010. As I have already written there is no interest from anyone higher up to improve your life. They have a model they have been running successfully and will continue to do so until a few handful individuals walk away very happy from this outfit. You as a crew won't be one of them. That's why it is important to know why you are joining VJ otherwise you will be disappointed. I had a great time, fun flying, nice colleagues but VJ is not a long term career employer for the crews, unlike NetJets.

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Old 7th Mar 2021, 15:37
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Originally Posted by eiffel View Post
How much/how long is the bond ? With these salaries, do people leave before the end of it?
3 years after you passed the line check so around 3,5 years. There was a couple of people who did leave early. I wound definitely not recommend it as I've heard they do come after you with lawyers.
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 15:49
  #216 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Setting View Post
Those numbers are correct for the Global. But you will join with even lower salary than that. If you start on the Global the starting salary is 3000 EUR less per year = 45 000 EUR until 6 months after you pass your line check. Then it will be 48 000 EUR. I would count just under a year before you see those 48 K. Depending on your performance, luck and number of sectors it would probably take you around 4-6 months until you have passed the line check. Then 6 months more with reduced salary before the 48K numbers kick in.
Salaries are:
Global start 45 000 EUR. 6 months after line check 48 000 EUR
Challenger fleets start 42 000 EUR, 6 months after line check 45 000 EUR.

Thereafter the salary increase with 3000 EUR /year after 3 years in service after the passed line check.

Per diems are most of the time tax free and varies depending on the country you live in. But count on 600-800 EUR tax free per month. They are low and you will struggle to eat for that money in some places.
Then you have quarterly bonus. All working days over 51 each quarter qualifies for extra day payment of 200 EUR /day. This one is difficult to reach as some months you will start 2-3 days late and then you won't reach those 51 days. So even if you work on your off days you will not get paid.
Annual extra days. All days you work over 204 days per year will pay you 200 EUR /day. This even includes the stand by days so will pay you around 2000 EUR extra per year.
Then there is a performance bonus that will kick in after, I think it was, 3 years of service. Can't remember the exact numbers but think you started with around 3% bonus of your annual salary. It will then increase 1% every year up to 10%.

You need to have a mental picture why you join this outfit. Things are like they are and will never improve. Salaries have been the same since around 2010. As I have already written there is no interest from anyone higher up to improve your life. They have a model they have been running successfully and will continue to do so until a few handful individuals walk away very happy from this outfit. You as a crew won't be one of them. That's why it is important to know why you are joining VJ otherwise you will be disappointed. I had a great time, fun flying, nice colleagues but VJ is not a long term career employer for the crews, unlike NetJets.
Thank you very much!
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 16:33
  #217 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Setting View Post
Those numbers are correct for the Global. But you will join with even lower salary than that. If you start on the Global the starting salary is 3000 EUR less per year = 45 000 EUR until 6 months after you pass your line check. Then it will be 48 000 EUR. I would count just under a year before you see those 48 K. Depending on your performance, luck and number of sectors it would probably take you around 4-6 months until you have passed the line check. Then 6 months more with reduced salary before the 48K numbers kick in.
Salaries are:
Global start 45 000 EUR. 6 months after line check 48 000 EUR
Challenger fleets start 42 000 EUR, 6 months after line check 45 000 EUR.

Thereafter the salary increase with 3000 EUR /year after 3 years in service after the passed line check.

Per diems are most of the time tax free and varies depending on the country you live in. But count on 600-800 EUR tax free per month. They are low and you will struggle to eat for that money in some places.
Then you have quarterly bonus. All working days over 51 each quarter qualifies for extra day payment of 200 EUR /day. This one is difficult to reach as some months you will start 2-3 days late and then you won't reach those 51 days. So even if you work on your off days you will not get paid.
Annual extra days. All days you work over 204 days per year will pay you 200 EUR /day. This even includes the stand by days so will pay you around 2000 EUR extra per year.
Then there is a performance bonus that will kick in after, I think it was, 3 years of service. Can't remember the exact numbers but think you started with around 3% bonus of your annual salary. It will then increase 1% every year up to 10%.

You need to have a mental picture why you join this outfit. Things are like they are and will never improve. Salaries have been the same since around 2010. As I have already written there is no interest from anyone higher up to improve your life. They have a model they have been running successfully and will continue to do so until a few handful individuals walk away very happy from this outfit. You as a crew won't be one of them. That's why it is important to know why you are joining VJ otherwise you will be disappointed. I had a great time, fun flying, nice colleagues but VJ is not a long term career employer for the crews, unlike NetJets.
Unimpressive numbers, hence why pilots leave then - not hard to understand that.
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 18:11
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Unimpressive numbers, hence why pilots leave then - not hard to understand that.
The amount you get is quite dependent upon which country you live. Austria is supposed to be quite beneficial, and Spain as well if I believe the person who told me.
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 18:23
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Originally Posted by MostAnnoying View Post
The amount you get is quite dependent upon which country you live. Austria is supposed to be quite beneficial, and Spain as well if I believe the person who told me.
No matter whether you pay 0% or 40% taxes, it is still a laughable salary for crew on one of the most expensive business jets in the world. It's a nice job for starters, but then run.
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 18:34
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Originally Posted by EatMyShorts! View Post
No matter whether you pay 0% or 40% taxes, it is still a laughable salary for crew on one of the most expensive business jets in the world. It's a nice job for starters, but then run.
Uncommon opinion: money is not everything tho!
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