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Seattle to Tokyo in a Citation X+

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Seattle to Tokyo in a Citation X+

Old 20th Sep 2018, 01:48
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Montana
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Danger Seattle to Tokyo in a Citation X+

Please forgive me if I've posted this in the wrong place.

I'm a touring/studio musician with an aviation background (beginning in to 70's) that includes currently having a Citation M2 in my hangar. Before you ask, I'm paying my dues to learn to fly it now. I'm not a pro pilot, just recreational and "flights over dry land". LOL!

I have access to a Citation X+ (and crew) for a part of my next music tour (Classic Rock and Blues - 108 cities/176 shows - 2018-2019) and I'm considering flights to Tokyo from Seattle using this aircraft in lieu of something like a Gulfstream G450 (which I also have access to). We're hauling passengers and luggage. All of our gear (aside from a few guitars) will be on that side already.

Has anyone flown from Seattle to Anchorage and then on to Tokyo in this aircraft? Time frame is December 2018 and then again in March 2019. Insights? Other than stretching our legs in Alaska during refueling, does this actually pencil? I realize that we'll be running thin fuel by Japan.

But is this doable without scaring hell out of our wives? I'll sooth my fears in old Scotch.

I'm trying to determine if it's actually feasible and realistic. Considerations in aircraft type are due to my production company's financial contributions to the trips. If the X+ will work, I'd prefer it.

Thanks for the insights. I appreciate it.
RRONIN is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2018, 14:47
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Fuel stop UHPP, then carry on - no problem. PM me for details if you want.
dc9-32 is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2018, 06:42
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Possible, yes, comfortable... maybe not so much versus the 450... But, depends how important that is to you I suppose.

How many people and how much luggage you intending to be including in this?

Not a short trip to do with a cramped C X+ cabin.
Tray Surfer is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2018, 09:53
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Long trips should be more comfortable, right? LOL!

Originally Posted by Tray Surfer View Post
Possible, yes, comfortable... maybe not so much versus the 450... But, depends how important that is to you I suppose.

How many people and how much luggage you intending to be including in this?

Not a short trip to do with a cramped C X+ cabin.
8 passengers and reasonable luggage. We're used to traveling light. A large bag and a carry-on each. Several vintage guitars and some analog pedals, thus the requirement for the private flight in the first place. These guitars are impossible to replace. And due to duration, I'd considered moving to a larger aircraft. It would also allow us a bigger reach. I'm figuring now that the X+ would require at least (2) tech stops to reach Tokyo from Seattle. With the Gulfstream G450, I think that it's only (1). I'm also told that winds will be difficult, resulting in limitations on range. I've even considered routing through HNL instead and avoiding the bitter cold altogether. I'm thinking that the G450 could fly each leg non-stop, but I'm not positive. HNL to Tokyo might require a tech stop someplace.
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 10:01
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8 passengers with carry-ons and 1 large bag each, I expect. Several vintage guitars and a case (large luggage bag sized) with pedals. I'd wondered if the X+ would be large enough for a flight of this duration.
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Old 23rd Sep 2018, 08:32
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I think you have answered your own question.

The cabin of the G450 for the long flights win hands down.

Not to mention 8 pax, the 450 I assume 8 individual seats and a divan at a minimum. Stretch out and enjoy the flight.

Also more space to look after the vintage guitars.

The X+ just not in the same league size wise, well that’s what she said!
Global Aviator is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2018, 15:02
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8 pax... Take the 450...

If you had said 4 pax, that would have been great, each with a pair of seats each so you could stretch out... But, with 8, you will be sat opposite someone with every seat taken for all that time... Not a pleasant experience at all.

A 450 will allow you to relax, maybe sleep, eat and arrive a little refreshed, versus cramped and tetchy. Plus, with the hand luggage and the guitars, you are going to be stepping over stuff too and from the toilet or drinks/snacks at the front. I don't remember the baggage being able to take more than maybe 8-10 large suitcases.
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Old 23rd Sep 2018, 15:05
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Originally Posted by RRONIN View Post
8 passengers with carry-ons and 1 large bag each, I expect. Several vintage guitars and a case (large luggage bag sized) with pedals. I'd wondered if the X+ would be large enough for a flight of this duration.
Nope. I think you are setting yourself up for a fall by even considering the X+... Discount it. It will be miserable.

At least with the 450, you have a little more scope to stow things a little more considerately in regard to the vintage guitars, without worrying about them either not fitting or getting damaged in and out of a small space.

450 each and every time.
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 14:14
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Take a lie-flat bed instead

Originally Posted by RRONIN
8 passengers with carry-ons and 1 large bag each, I expect. Several vintage guitars and a case (large luggage bag sized) with pedals. I'd wondered if the X+ would be large enough for a flight of this duration.

Iím a former flight instructor, now typed in the CE-525/CJ3. Iím going to give you a somewhat different opinion.

Instead of taking everything in one G450, why not take the passengers in the Citation X+, and the luggage in your Citation M2? The cost will actually be less to take the 2 Citations, and you could go along in the M2 if you want and fly a couple of legs yourself Ė which will be excellent Oceanic experience.

Most comfortable alternative: Even a G450 will have to make a refuelling stop en route (the Citation X+ will have to make two). So the most comfortable option would be to fly non-stop commercially to Tokyo. Business class non-stop in an ANA Dreamliner (lie-flat seat-beds) will be even more comfortable than the G450. Send the luggage in the M2 with contract ferry pilots. That way, the M2 will be available in Japan for side-trips (such as moving the luggage between islands). And you can get some international flight experience flying around in Japan.

PM me and I will send you the mission profiles for both the Citation X+ and the M2. It's doable, even with the head-winds. Cheers.
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Old 1st Oct 2018, 13:46
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Originally Posted by RRONIN View Post
8 passengers and reasonable luggage. We're used to traveling light. A large bag and a carry-on each. Several vintage guitars and some analog pedals, thus the requirement for the private flight in the first place. These guitars are impossible to replace. And due to duration, I'd considered moving to a larger aircraft. It would also allow us a bigger reach. I'm figuring now that the X+ would require at least (2) tech stops to reach Tokyo from Seattle. With the Gulfstream G450, I think that it's only (1). I'm also told that winds will be difficult, resulting in limitations on range. I've even considered routing through HNL instead and avoiding the bitter cold altogether. I'm thinking that the G450 could fly each leg non-stop, but I'm not positive. HNL to Tokyo might require a tech stop someplace.
Are you England Dan or John Ford Coley? I only ask because they're kind of a big deal in Japan.

Seriously, though, I like av8beyond's idea. Fly First Class on ANA, then use the M2 in Japan.
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Old 1st Oct 2018, 16:54
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Thank you, flyboyike. My idea is - why let an excellent learning opportunity pass by. Oceanic experience (under supervision) and flying in Japan while getting useful work done - that's worth way more than an uncomfortable passenger ride in a G450. Also, check out the ANA website - they have a nice video showing the 787 Business Class seats turning into flat-beds. Just be careful you don't end up on United though (ANA and United code-share). No idea what their business class is like, but United's coach is awful to Tokyo.
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Old 2nd Oct 2018, 10:06
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Aso
 
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Any GVI, V, 450, F2, F50EX, F900B, 604 or anything BUT a Citation X... 8 seats doesnt mean that it is comfortable for 8 people. If I fly over 3 hours in any X/XLS type of cabin with almost full pax I get completely p!ssed off...
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