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Netjets Europe Conditions

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Netjets Europe Conditions

Old 10th Nov 2018, 15:45
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SI
Age: 40
Posts: 122
Originally Posted by giord View Post
Does NJE only hire F/Os ? I am a Falcon 50/900 TRE. Thanks.
yes only FO no matter the experience you have. see https://www.kuraaviation.com/docs/NE...20FAQ%20v5.pdf

Maybe this will change in the future, but who knows.
alkor is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 10:31
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Japan
Posts: 312
KURAAVIATION anounced again openings until 19th November.

With a roster 6 on 5 off what is the averege net per month?
trancada is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 11:10
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Europe mainly
Posts: 68
Here is my two cents to NetJets Europe.
Like most of my colleagues I am more than ten years with NJE.

As definite pro you can say:

-Stable 6on 5off roster. The roster is written in stone. They can ask you to extend, but you are not expected to accept EVER !
-Highly professional operation with all the support from the office you can possibly think of
-Safety is the major concern, if something ist not safe, we do not do it. You are not pushed to do illegal rubbish, the opposite is the case. No outfit for GA Cowboys
-A lot of money is invested into your training, you don't train in the SIM once a year but twice, plus 5 days in Lisbon for ground recurrent training. It is all done within your duty days
-A great bunch of very professional people you will be flying with
-Hotels, Airlines, Ground transports. It will be taken care of from the company
-You have six special days of per year, which you can take in blocks of two days. For example to make sure to be at home when its your son/daughters birthday. Your roster will be shifted around to accommodate these days
-Aircrafts are looked after from maintenance and interior perspective
-The flying you are doing really deserves the name flying. Can't compare to the boredom of flying for an Airline.
-If something dramatic happens at home while you are on a flying tour, you will have all the support you can wish for. They get you home ASAP. Witnessed myself multiple times. NetJets is truly great in this regard !

As cons I would highlight:

-Do not assume you are transitioning from the right hand seat to the left hand seat quickly. It will be many years, don't ask for an estimate really. No one can know for sure.
-You will have to deal with bollocks that you would not have to deal with in any airline. (cleaning, luggage etc etc)
-You will have to sacrifice a good chunk of your salary if you do not already have a nice military/state pension. The pension problem within NetJets is not solved.
-It can be a pain to get vacation in summer when you want it, for example when your kids are off school.
-You will likely join on the Phenom 300 or Citation XLS fleet. Where the Phenom is a great aircraft with impressive avionics, but lacks the space and APU, and the XLS has the APU and almost stand up cabin but.... Its an XLS....


Salary....as mentioned before:

EUR 58,500 - until the completion of 24 months of
employment, EUR 66,300 onwards

Your salary is getting adjusted every year according to OECD inflation rate. You are not getting more yearly, but at least you are not getting less buying power.

If you are living in Portugal you pay a lot of tax, same goes if you happen to live in Denmark.

For countries that have a double taxation agreement with Portugal, which to my knowledge is the majority of the European Countries you will pay a 25% flat income Tax in Portugal and National Insurance in the country you are living in. The later obviously varies from country to country, so one has to do the math individually.

There is almost every year opportunities to top up your income a little bit. By working extra days or even signing up for working 204 or 208 days a year instead of 200.


I think that sums it up. To be honest, when I read the previous comments I find it way too negative. Especially take EatMyShorts comments with a pinch of salt. Lovely guy but a bit on the complaining side of life

This if for sure not the place to come if you want to make the maximum money you possibly can. But it is a nice place to work with great work/life balance.
Churn of the workforce is quite low, which tells a lot.

Last edited by Delta12; 11th Nov 2018 at 13:11. Reason: editing
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Old 11th Nov 2018, 11:59
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: ipswich
Posts: 49
Delta 12

a friend of a friend who works for Netjets assures me he spends the majority of his per diems on tour. It is a TAX FREE allowance which may be taxed in the future if not spent. So other than your information I’m sure everyone in Netjets spends a considerable amount of their per diem income.

binzer
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Old 11th Nov 2018, 12:42
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: France
Posts: 410
Originally Posted by binzer View Post
Delta 12

a friend of a friend who works for Netjets assures me he spends the majority of his per diems on tour. It is a TAX FREE allowance which may be taxed in the future if not spent. So other than your information I’m sure everyone in Netjets spends a considerable amount of their per diem income.
Correct. In some countries the tax authorities are quite strict and you better keep all your personal expense receipts to prove that you actually spend most of your per-diems or the non-taxed part of it will be reduced even more! I hope that per-diems will be increased at some point to offset taxation and have more net in the end.

@Delta12: I am negative? I am realistic. Please take off your tinted glasses and look outside the box as well to realize that for what we do we are underpaid by quite a bit. An offset would be a fat year-end bonus in good years and we are hopefully going to see it in the near future, as the company is suddenly facing a situation where it cannot attract enough suitable candidates. The fact that our hiring contractor is opening yet another round of assessments is quite telling, because obviously we were not able to fill in the 60 seats so far. If I had a captain seat somewhere else, with a similar salary, I'd rather apply somewhere else. Yes, our roster is nice, our flying is nice, but there some important items (higher per-diems, higher salaries that reflect the current status of the market, a true pension scheme etc.) that need fixing. Churn is low? Excuse me, we lost more than 40 pilots in 2018, among them very senior captains who cannot afford to continue without a proper pension plan. I am 100% positive that 9 out of 10 of them loved the roster and the flying, but they took a rational decision. At the moment most crew members do NOT have a proper pension plan, but rather a savings plan: the money that goes in is taken from your net-salary and when you get money out later, you will pay tax again. Ok, the employer contribution is up to 6500 EUR a year, but that's a very low amount. I rather keep all my net salary and invest it myself.

So, if I was a real complainer, I'd have long left, because on the market you can easily make much more money, which comes at a price (roster, conditions etc), no doubt. For me personally, the PROs win over the CONs, too. And we are trying to resolve the CONs, but it is not happening overnight. The more people leave and the less people decide join us, the better for us, because the company will be forced to protect its operation. Logical. So, I am still holding my breath for better things to come - not because the company loves us, because they finally need us again!
EatMyShorts! is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 12:49
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 94
Could any UK based NJE pilots please confirm the tax arrangements? I was under the impression that zero tax was paid in Portugal and the ONLY tax paid was UK income tax and NI.

Secondly, time to command has been suggested by the recruiters to be 6 years. Are you all saying that to be unrealistic?
skaterboi is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 13:20
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Europe mainly
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by EatMyShorts! View Post

So, if I was a real complainer, I'd have long left
In my experience complainers never leave
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Old 11th Nov 2018, 13:26
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: France
Posts: 410
Originally Posted by skaterboi View Post
Could any UK based NJE pilots please confirm the tax arrangements? I was under the impression that zero tax was paid in Portugal and the ONLY tax paid was UK income tax and NI.

Secondly, time to command has been suggested by the recruiters to be 6 years. Are you all saying that to be unrealistic?
Taxwise, that seems to be accurate. Time to command can be 6 years. Or longer, it all depends whether if and how fast the fleet will grow, how many pilots will decide to go and work elsewhere. In other words, we are looking at a crystal ball here. We currently have about 200 F/Os who will upgrade first, if I am not mistaken.
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Old 11th Nov 2018, 13:27
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: France
Posts: 410
Originally Posted by Delta12 View Post
In my experience complainers never leave
Some complainers never leave, true. And many other "complainers" are genuinely interested in staying and making the company better, they just cannot hold back on communicating their frustrations to others. It's a bit like "Africa": it could be sooooo much better.
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Old 11th Nov 2018, 16:11
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Age: 42
Posts: 423
Excuse me stepping for a bit of fact checking ;
18 people left this last year, not 40.
For a Uk based crew, all your taxes are paid in the UK.
How you spend Per Diems is your choice. Personally, I generally spend less than 100 euros per tour. I think this is fairly typical.
We have received HUNDREDS of applications for the 60 available positions. They are being very particular about who they recruit. I’m not sure exactly what they are looking for.
Now my opinion ; New joiners will be looking at least 8 years to command. No way in as little as 6. Total income including bonus, per diems, overtime if you wish to do it & salary after a few years will be around €80,000 for an FO. Plus company provided health, LOL, life insurance.
NJ is not perfect but it beats the heck out of most jobs out there. You’d be mad to think otherwise.
buzzc152 is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 17:01
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 94
Thanks Buzz, much appreciated.
skaterboi is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 17:10
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: France
Posts: 410
@buzz: yes, it beats a lot of GA-jobs, no doubt. But I thought we were more like an airline with certain GA-characteristics. The LOL is a very light version, compared to other programs. The life insurance is, too.
And only 18 pilots have left this year? I heard this incorrect number as well, but we were already at 36 in August... but I am sure I got the numbers wrong and I am just a mean complainer who will never be happy!

Just to be sure: Netjets is a great place and I recommend it to FOs with intermediate experience. Most captains will not be happy as it will take them a long time to become captains, unless they agree to join the office in Lisbon and sell their soul for a left seat. You can be sure that not too many pilots on the line are too content about these people.
EatMyShorts! is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 17:54
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Home
Posts: 16
EMS
I'm sure you are both loved and needed. You have some valid points and I do believe the company is trying to address your Cons. I think your churn figure is too high; brief last week was less than half that as a rolling 12 month figure. There has been a slight increase but still way below industry norms. With more opportunities available I think it is inevitable the churn will increase a little. Time will tell how competitive we remain.

For perspective new hires we need to put our internal comments, driven by a long period of career stagnation in context:

We are financially secure; something most of our competitors crews cannot say with confidence. There appears to be a cunning plan for controlled growth without over exposing us to the next downturn and we are now hiring and upgrading in fairly significant numbers. I believe the 6 year to upgrade estimate is reasonable, especially in a competitive hiring environment and the beginning of age related retirements just over the horizon.

Overall I think Delta12's comments are pretty accurate and we have the nice problem of keeping up with demand in 2019.

Arthur1815 is offline  
Old 12th Nov 2018, 11:16
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Europe mainly
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by EatMyShorts! View Post
Some complainers never leave, true. And many other "complainers" are genuinely interested in staying and making the company better, they just cannot hold back on communicating their frustrations to others. It's a bit like "Africa": it could be sooooo much better.
Please do not take it personal, it is just my impression. Remember I said you are a nice guy as well, for sure one with a good heart
I edited the part with the PD, agree, not too clever what I did. Simply did not think before texting Sorry
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Old 12th Nov 2018, 12:30
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: France
Posts: 410
All cool, I was just a bit surprised to be called a complainer, as we both know people who complain literally about anything, even a payrise, because it was probably 10 Cents short of their expectations
EatMyShorts! is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2018, 07:45
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Spain
Age: 50
Posts: 18
Good morning.
Can anyone help me providing information about the bases where you can operate from home?
An example, because I live very close to Alicante. This is one of the most busy airports in Spain, but I see (maybe I am wrong) that in Spain there are only three bases, MAD, BCN and AGP (Málaga).
Can you confirm this true?
Do you think that, if hired, I can agree with the Company to have ALC as a Gateway for Operations?
Thanks a lot.
Humane Maverick is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2018, 08:37
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: France
Posts: 410
Hi HM, yes, this is true: at this time only MAD, BCN and AGP are official gateways, due to seasonality of the airlines. You cannot change this.

We have had PMI as a temporary and seasonal summer gateway this year and last year and we are trying to add more, but they will only be available during summer months when there is a sufficient number of direct flights to key airports in Europe.
EatMyShorts! is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2018, 09:17
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Spain
Age: 50
Posts: 18
Thanks for your answer!
Humane Maverick is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2018, 12:07
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: holland
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by buzzc152 View Post
.......
We have received HUNDREDS of applications for the 60 available positions. They are being very particular about who they recruit.
Well if that's the case, why has Kura reopened the application? And why are people who either got the PFO or didn't make it thru the selection invited to apply again?
doglegfinal is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2018, 14:30
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: France
Posts: 410
The issue is that Netjets has a good reputation, but when people see the contractual conditions, primarily the money and pension scheme, they take their application back.
EatMyShorts! is offline  

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