What salary to ask for

[CaptainProp]

Originally Posted by Okihara

Disclaimer: newbie asking (who's just in GA) and at the risk of drawing serious "Google before you ask" comments:

What is the common pathway to end up in the cockpit of a Gulfstream aircraft? Do you have to build hours elsewhere first and then apply or is that an alternative path to common airlines?

Get on anything with wings and start building up your network.

CP

[Liftboy]

need some advice please

Gentleman – need some advice please.

recently got an offer as captain (incl. SVC/LTC) and flight ops manager for a FAR23 / CAT operation, with 3 light jets. I’m rated, current on type with >2000hrs on type, postholder compliance and safety (CAT operation) for a different outfit. Actually, it looks like that they will get two FAR25 (mid-size) aircrafts this year with an option for me to go left seat on the new type as well.

Question: What is an average salary for an European fixed employed captain on a light jet, probably later mid-size. What extra money can I ask for the FOM position – realistically?

Cheers!
PMs appreciated as well…

[Kelly Hopper]

Do not hanka after a gulfsteam job. The flying is detrimental to your health, utterly boring beyond belief and full of egomaniacs that will kill you at the 1st opportunity. 'Worst decision of my career! I would never go back for any money.

[Klimax]

Originally Posted by Kelly Hopper

Do not hanka after a gulfsteam job. The flying is detrimental to your health, utterly boring beyond belief and full of egomaniacs that will kill you at the 1st opportunity. 'Worst decision of my career! I would never go back for any money.

wow.. that's a sad experience. What did you end up doing, that is so much more fun and with a great bunch then? Seriously curios.

[flyboyike]

Originally Posted by Klimax

wow.. that's a sad experience. What did you end up doing, that is so much more fun and with a great bunch then? Seriously curios.

He's a barista at a kale juice shop.

[Kelly Hopper]

I wouldn't say "sad." Just an anti-Klimax!!
I went back to good flying and got back my enjoyment of the job. I am afraid I am not alone in my experience either as more and more are beginning to see the light now?
Unfortunately the egomaniacs are infiltrating the entire business now so finding, and more importantly keeping, a decent job is becoming quite rare.
I know everyone wants that big shiny jet and they don't come much shinier than the Gulfstream but really, it was not for me. The endless fatigue (jet lag) made me question my entire existence. It made dodging the backstabbers even harder.

[Klimax]

Originally Posted by Kelly Hopper

I wouldn't say "sad." Just an anti-Klimax!!
I went back to good flying and got back my enjoyment of the job. I am afraid I am not alone in my experience either as more and more are beginning to see the light now?
Unfortunately the egomaniacs are infiltrating the entire business now so finding, and more importantly keeping, a decent job is becoming quite rare.
I know everyone wants that big shiny jet and they don't come much shinier than the Gulfstream but really, it was not for me. The endless fatigue (jet lag) made me question my entire existence. It made dodging the backstabbers even harder.

I understand your experiences with the jet lag side of flying the long range Gulfstreams (or any other long range jet), and agree this CAN be a flip side of the coin. But, again, this all depends on the specific aircraft (frame/owner) and how he travels (layover times, time of departure etc.).

However I'm sincerely interested in know what you define as "good flying"? is it smaller biz jets with lots of sectors and regional or back to airlines or what? Thank you.

[Kelly Hopper]

Ah that's an easy question to answer...
Short haul, Europe destinations, just a few sectors per month, nice sensible aircraft, good crew, good pax, good hotac and most importantly a company that has empathy. Then the job can be a delight. Or... flat out east, west, west again, east, east again, with only min rest between which ends up as 2 hrs sleep, truly awful crew (actually the worst pilots I have ever seen) arrogant pax, dreadful destinations with all sorts of diseases to get you, and they did, and a horrendous management company that extends every duty by 50% and doesn't even pay for it.
You decide?

[Klimax]

Originally Posted by Kelly Hopper

Ah that's an easy question to answer...
Short haul, Europe destinations, just a few sectors per month, nice sensible aircraft, good crew, good pax, good hotac and most importantly a company that has empathy. Then the job can be a delight. Or... flat out east, west, west again, east, east again, with only min rest between which ends up as 2 hrs sleep, truly awful crew (actually the worst pilots I have ever seen) arrogant pax, dreadful destinations with all sorts of diseases to get you, and they did, and a horrendous management company that extends every duty by 50% and doesn't even pay for it.
You decide?

Now, it would seem to me that your reasons to dislike "gulfstream flying" so much, is more down to your personal bad experience, which obviously sounds bad, but that's not necessarily what all privately managed long range gulfstream account are like. I used to be on one where we'd fly once or twice a month, west then east, have 2-4 days away and be home 20 days a month or at times 6 weeks off with no flying, and the occasionally flight to some great destinations in different continents. On top of that great, well trained and skilled crew. Pax were ok. Also - the G650 is not a bad airframe to do regional flying in - it's truly well equipped for flying around Europe as well. Anyways, I was curios to hear what made your current job better than "gulfstream" jobs, and you explained well. Enjoy. Cheers.

[His dudeness]

full of egomaniacs that will kill you at the 1st opportunity.

Mmhhh, lets see, you're still alive ?

[Klimax]

Originally Posted by His dudeness

Mmhhh, lets see, you're still alive ?

I guess the European mosquito's don't bit much and they are clean little buggers... It's interesting how people are different (and that's all good) in what they work well with.