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EASA PC-12 engine out procedures in IMC

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EASA PC-12 engine out procedures in IMC

Old 26th Feb 2018, 09:04
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EASA PC-12 engine out procedures in IMC

Now that SET-IMC is allowed I wonder what kind engine out procedures in IMC EASA wants you to follow and what kind of take-off, enroute and destination minimums they want you to keep.
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Old 9th Mar 2018, 11:03
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Originally Posted by Son of a Beech View Post
Now that SET-IMC is allowed I wonder what kind engine out procedures in IMC EASA wants you to follow and what kind of take-off, enroute and destination minimums they want you to keep.
If youíre asking about what procedures following a total power loss, then the best you can do is maintain a good sense of humour throughout, because there really isnít anything much you can do except point the aircraft in the direction where you have the better chance of making a controlled impact. That, and if youíre the religious type, a bit of prayer canít hurt.

If youíre asking about partial loss of power, which statistically is the most likely scenario, then a speedy assessment of performance degradation will dictate your next plan of action.
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Old 9th Mar 2018, 11:09
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This much i understood ;-)

I was more thinking if there are any rules like for example you can fly IFR but you need VFR 500-1000ft ceiling underneath your route of flight in case of an engine out so you can land VFR, or can you just fly solid IFR like two engine aircraft. And to stress Iím talking about EASA AOC flights not private or overseas.
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Old 9th Mar 2018, 11:16
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In performance CAT B airplane, a ceiling is required for any departure. Why ? Because you cannot have an engine failure that would prevent a "safe" RE-landing of some kind.
Now... well every pilot of SET is a potential Sully ( But this time with no FBW to save his butt); IMC or not IMC...
Hopefully they will crash in non-populated area..

Why is there no windows in a submarine ?
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Old 9th Mar 2018, 16:40
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I can't say what actually happened in the cockpit during this... Years ago I was headed back home towards blighty and there was a full Mayday on 121.5 with a SET in IMC and an engine failed. Instant options were generated by the agency replying who when continually updated the aircraft until it reported visual with the airfield they were heading towards.

It was amazing to listen to, best bit was when they cancelled the mayday. The better bit was when the yank who transmitted several times 'U're on guaaarrrddd' got busted!
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 12:01
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Why is there no windows in a submarine ?
Not nitpicking, but quite a lot of submarines actually do have windows...
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 13:35
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Please tell me you're not a pilot Lucille. I read an article about the PC-12 recently, in which the writer pointed out that if the engine failed at 30,000ft, you have 30 minutes to do something, which would include gliding 60nm to the nearest airport. I believe that in most parts of Europe 60nm would take you to an airport with a long enough runway to take a PC-12 dead stick.
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 14:10
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Originally Posted by Thud105 View Post
... that if the engine failed at 30,000ft, you have 30 minutes to do something, which would include gliding 60nm to the nearest airport. I believe that in most parts of Europe 60nm would take you to an airport with a long enough runway to take a PC-12 dead stick.
And what if it happens to be a day like today (or yesterday, or the day before) when everything within a radius of 100NM from my present position is overcast with a low stratus down to maybe 500ft?
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 14:46
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Come on, any average ace pilot would do that A-OK. 500ft OVC is VFR weather...
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 14:55
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Well, clearly its not your day. Nevertheless there's a thing called GPS that would produce accurate guidance, allowing a competent airmen (or woman) to glide to an airport that would have at least 6,000 and quite possibly 9,000ft of runway. A steep approach and I'd say there's a fair chance of stopping, or at least trundling off the end.

Lucille opined "because there really isn’t anything much you can do except point the aircraft in the direction where you have the better chance of making a controlled impact. That, and if you’re the religious type, a bit of prayer can’t hurt.'

I beg to differ. Rather than pray, I'd consider my options, use every tool available to me and fly the airplane. I'm not saying it'll be easy to retrieve such a situation, but its certainly not impossible. If you know how to fly.
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 15:39
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Originally Posted by Thud105 View Post
... I'd consider my options, use every tool available to me and fly the airplane.
Yes, of course. But there are not too many 6000ft or 9000ft runways in a lot of Europe and the engine does not always fail at 30.000ft. In Europe, most SETs don't cruise much at those levels either. RVSM and such.
I think I saw a statistics somewhere that engines fail most often when they are strained most, i.e. during takeoff and on initial climbout. This is also where fuel contamination will most likely strike. Neither a GPS nor pilotage will save you there, just luck or that higher being should you believe in one.
Sometimes I still instruct VFR night. But not too often because doing that means accepting that one will most probably die together with one's engine.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 02:43
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PC12 engine failure in Australia at night!

https://encrypted.google.com/url?sa=...efH-377XoqPWIS

Derby's sealed runway is 5696 feet.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 08:59
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And what has 6000-9000 ft got to do with it.... have you seen the PC12 Perf figures? Regularly operate into MUCH less.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 10:28
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I said 6000-9000ft runway because I was discussing landing a PC-12 dead-stick, at night. I'm well aware that a well flown -12 can get down on a pretty short runway. The pilot in zac21's post did an excellent job.
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Old 23rd Mar 2018, 02:42
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There is a recognised cloud break procedure for the PC-12 with engine failed. It is quite spectacular to watch as it involves a high energy descent giving the aircraft enough inertia to manoeuvre once visual. No, I have never flown one but have a friend in the RFDS who does and have also discussed this with one of the Northern Territory police pilots after he had been practising the manoeuvre. Even the early model PC-12s' had a 40nm ring marked on their GPS which showed all airfields and the aircraft could be configured for a glide to arrive at a certain altitude above that field (forget what it was but think 2,000') where a cloud break procedure could be performed.
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Old 23rd Mar 2018, 12:12
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Originally Posted by PLovett View Post
There is a recognised cloud break procedure for the PC-12 with engine failed. It is quite spectacular to watch as it involves a high energy descent giving the aircraft enough inertia to manoeuvre once visual.

...

...Even the early model PC-12s' had a 40nm ring marked on their GPS which showed all airfields and the aircraft could be configured for a glide to arrive at a certain altitude above that field (forget what it was but think 2,000') where a cloud break procedure could be performed.
That sounds quite reasonable to me! If I would fly SETs on a regular basis I would certainly practice stuff like that. What saddens me though is that procedures like the one described are not integrated into the avionics yet. It would really be "a small matter of programming" (as early IT staff used to call difficult but manageable tasks) to compute the best gliding route towards a suitable landing site and steer the pilot towards it. Mind you, the Space Shuttle first flew in 1981 using technology developed throughout the decade before that date. This makes it 50 year old technology. Yet it already had a flight director which guided the pilots all the way down from orbit through the hypersonic regime to their assigned landing spot within a few metres. And all with an "aeroplane" that rather flew like a stone and not a glider. So why can't modern avionics manufacturers not just implement an "emergeny glide me home" mode into their flight director?
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Old 23rd Mar 2018, 18:47
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It would really be "a small matter of programming" (as early IT staff used to call difficult but manageable tasks) to compute the best gliding route towards a suitable landing site and steer the pilot towards it.
That is what Xavion does.

It is not integrated but works apparently quite well indeed as AOPA and some others who tried it say. The guy who made it flies a Evolution so he is quite aware of the problem. (He is also the guy who made X-Plane).

Last edited by AN2 Driver; 23rd Mar 2018 at 19:02.
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Old 23rd Mar 2018, 23:26
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In 2002, a PC-12 experienced power loss after departing KTTN and the pilot completed a low altitude engine out 180 course reversal in IMC. Landing was less successful. Full story...

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...=HTML&IType=FA
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