Manchester madness - security

[A and C]

Manchester has always been one of the worst places in the UK for security, they are just a bunch of power drunk people who have never had a pragmatic thought in there lives.

[Globally Challenged]

Try EGNJ (Humberside) - they make Manchester look slack ;-)

[CloudHound]

I used to work for MAplc where I was OPS3 (Airfield Duty Manager).

The run-ins I had with colleagues in Security were many and various, though I did occasionally win.

Screening by use of scanners, physical examination, confiscation of hazardous objects and profiling all aim to reduce the terrorist threat of hijacking or destroying the aircraft in which terrorists are being carried.

Now I know this is a bit radical, but has any bizjet owner hijacked his or her own a/c using nail clippers or carried a bomb on board intending to blow up their pride and joy?

[Right Hand Thread]

Originally Posted by CloudHound

Now I know this is a bit radical, but has any bizjet owner hijacked his or her own a/c using nail clippers or carried a bomb on board intending to blow up their pride and joy?

I doubt it but a charter passenger might.

[fairflyer]

Think there's a lot of ignorance on the part of certain business aviation operators about the rules (and among most charter brokers selling the flights), where outbound chartered flights above ten tonnes MTOW are supposed to have the same screening protocols as if it were a commercial airline flight - there are no differences whatsoever. Charter brokers and then the operators, don't tend to give their passengers an appropriate heads-up to expect to have to go through screening in exactly the same way they would for a commercial airline flight - the same rules for hold and cabin bags apply. This, despite the fact that on almost all business aircraft types the 'hold' luggage is accessible from the cabin in flight. Uninformed Biz Av passengers turn up expecting to sail through with near no checks on them or their bags, when in the UK at least, it has to be by-the-book and exactly the same as if going on the Ryanair flight. What confuses some is when they flit between using a 'private', non-public transport flight one day and then a chartered flight the next and they forget that all the screening requirements kick in. Likewise they experience a 'lighter touch' approach at some FBOs versus the correct and compliant 'by-the-book' protocols and complain accordingly. Those airports/FBOs applying the 'lighter touch', soon find the DfT (or other national equivalents) coming down on them very heavily when they hear of malpractice or indeed the rights and permission to do screening in their FBOs withdrawn completely.

On the crew front, where you get some airports with separate airside zones from 'Critical Parts', crews should be able to go freely airside, but not into the Critical Parts where they still have to be screened.

[4HolerPoler]

Well it was an experience but thanks to the brilliant efforts of our handler (Signature) and our decision not to leave the aircraft, there were no real issues.

We parked on the stand and the pax were not allowed to disemark into the FBO vans (parked at the bottom of the steps) because a security cordon had not yet been established around the aircraft. The security perimeter consists of 3 or 4 paltry little fences on wheels they drag around behind a Pajero. These arrived and were ceremoniously placed in front of the nose and at each wingtip (I never looked at the tail). A white van with at least 3 reflective-jacket types arrived and now it was “safe enough” for the pax to disemark and off they went.

My biggest relief was not having to engage on a single occasion with these security folk. They sat in their van at the edge of the virtual security perimeter and watched us sleep for hours on end. I can’t wait to see how much we’re going to pay for that facility.

Departure was a little complicated by these procedures. We needed to de-ice and when the de-icing truck arrived he wasn’t allowed to breach the virtual security perimeter. It took around 20 minutes for the guy with the Pajero to arrive and tow away these force-field generators (disguised as fences with wheels). Then when de-icing was over another bloke in another Pajero had to be found as he’s in charge of determing if there is any FOD lurking around.

Simple as that. The guys from Signature made a miserable situation on a tatty day a breeze.

This was entirely a private flight fairflyer; we see little value in any additional safety measures above what is practical and common-sense yet we have learnt to dance the local rumba to satisfy the authorities.

I do understand that the UK CAA has indicated that if any local airport management wish to impose any measures or restrictions greater than that mandated by law they will not challenge or question such procedures.

Till the next one.

[air pig]

Originally Posted by 4HolerPoler

Well it was an experience but thanks to the brilliant efforts of our handler (Signature) and our decision not to leave the aircraft, there were no real issues.

We parked on the stand and the pax were not allowed to disemark into the FBO vans (parked at the bottom of the steps) because a security cordon had not yet been established around the aircraft. The security perimeter consists of 3 or 4 paltry little fences on wheels they drag around behind a Pajero. These arrived and were ceremoniously placed in front of the nose and at each wingtip (I never looked at the tail). A white van with at least 3 reflective-jacket types arrived and now it was “safe enough” for the pax to disemark and off they went.

My biggest relief was not having to engage on a single occasion with these security folk. They sat in their van at the edge of the virtual security perimeter and watched us sleep for hours on end. I can’t wait to see how much we’re going to pay for that facility.

Departure was a little complicated by these procedures. We needed to de-ice and when the de-icing truck arrived he wasn’t allowed to breach the virtual security perimeter. It took around 20 minutes for the guy with the Pajero to arrive and tow away these force-field generators (disguised as fences with wheels). Then when de-icing was over another bloke in another Pajero had to be found as he’s in charge of determing if there is any FOD lurking around.

Simple as that. The guys from Signature made a miserable situation on a tatty day a breeze.

This was entirely a private flight fairflyer; we see little value in any additional safety measures above what is practical and common-sense yet we have learnt to dance the local rumba to satisfy the authorities.

I do understand that the UK CAA has indicated that if any local airport management wish to impose any measures or restrictions greater than that mandated by law they will not challenge or question such procedures.

Till the next one.

4HP, there are other airports within 40 minutes of MCR, you bosses choice.

[His dudeness]

Think there's a lot of ignorance on the part of certain business aviation operators about the rules (and among most charter brokers selling the flights), where outbound chartered flights above ten tonnes MTOW are supposed to have the same screening protocols as if it were a commercial airline flight - there are no differences whatsoever. Charter brokers and then the operators, don't tend to give their passengers an appropriate heads-up to expect to have to go through screening in exactly the same way they would for a commercial airline flight - the same rules for hold and cabin bags apply. This, despite the fact that on almost all business aircraft types the 'hold' luggage is accessible from the cabin in flight. Uninformed Biz Av passengers turn up expecting to sail through with near no checks on them or their bags, when in the UK at least, it has to be by-the-book and exactly the same as if going on the Ryanair flight. What confuses some is when they flit between using a 'private', non-public transport flight one day and then a chartered flight the next and they forget that all the screening requirements kick in. Likewise they experience a 'lighter touch' approach at some FBOs versus the correct and compliant 'by-the-book' protocols and complain accordingly. Those airports/FBOs applying the 'lighter touch', soon find the DfT (or other national equivalents) coming down on them very heavily when they hear of malpractice or indeed the rights and permission to do screening in their FBOs withdrawn completely.

On the crew front, where you get some airports with separate airside zones from 'Critical Parts', crews should be able to go freely airside, but not into the Critical Parts where they still have to be screened.

I guess you are not wrong but then every fukcing airport makes up their own rules. Yesterday I went through security at EDDS GAT as crew just with one other crew, no pax, private flight. I was allowed to put my suitcase on the belt, after the screening I`m not allowed to touch it until it is in the van. From the van I´m allowed again to put it either the hold or the cabin. WTF ?

I´m not against security, but I refuse to accept rules and regs that make no sense at all or might even serve to make a safety risk in their own right. If I can´t get deiced in time because of somebody making up rules that are nuts, then....

[fairflyer]

Originally Posted by His dudeness

I guess you are not wrong but then every fukcing airport makes up their own rules. Yesterday I went through security at EDDS GAT as crew just with one other crew, no pax, private flight. I was allowed to put my suitcase on the belt, after the screening I`m not allowed to touch it until it is in the van. From the van I´m allowed again to put it either the hold or the cabin. WTF ?

I´m not against security, but I refuse to accept rules and regs that make no sense at all or might even serve to make a safety risk in their own right. If I can´t get deiced in time because of somebody making up rules that are nuts, then....

Yup, that's the key, whether going through airport-controlled security/airside access or going through FBO-controlled screening, they're all doing it slightly differently, with different protocols and so that's hundreds of different ways crew or passengers (and their bags) might expect to be dealt with which is a nightmare when managing expectations. There's of course supposed to be one common standard across Europe but, surprise, surprise, everyone has their own interpretation of what's acceptable when processing 'business aviation' flights which most consider the least likely threat from a security standpoint. Again, when the authorities find inconsistencies and bending of the rules, they do come down on the perpetrators fairly heavily. Similarly, they have been playing catch-up in the UK over recent years making non-commercial airports that do have the ability to conduct screening, seriously tighten up on airside access and controls - 'Directed Airports'. The same applies to FBOs on the commercial airports, they get audited and clobbered for non-compliance, then tighten everything up. Bottom line, a chartered flight above 10 tonnes has to be treated exactly the same as an airliner, as would a private flight in fact above 45.5 tonnes (i.e. a G650ER)

[air pig]

What an absolute shower and MCR are making life problematical for everyone.

Counter-terrorism detectives sacked for 'skiving' on nightshifts at Manchester Airport - Manchester Evening News